Talk:Norwegian phrasebook

This is absolutely incredible! Great job, and a worthwhile addition to the Main Page.

We just need to go through and make those English-like pronunciation things. -- (WT-en) Evan 08:00, 8 Nov 2003 (PST)

OK, so, I'm having a hard time doing that. I've been looking at a Norwegian pronunciation guide to make sure we've got this all straight. But I have no clue as to the emphasis on words. --(WT-en) Evan 20:54, 17 Dec 2003 (PST)

Wouldn't "aw" rather than "å" be clearer to English speakers in the phoneticizations? -- (WT-en) Jmabel 00:46, 7 Jun 2004 (EDT)

- No, because it's not accurate. oa as in board is more like it. usually, å is transliterated aa.

Does anyone say "jeg er lei meg" when apologizing? I would only use "beklager" or "unnskyld", and I think I would finf "jeg er lei meg" a bit confusing, even from a foreigner.

- No, "jeg er lei meg" literally means "I'm sad".

updates and edits

Hello! I have taken the liberty of making a few minor corrections and adding some pronunciation guides. Hope it helps. - T.

Bokmål/Nynorsk

I do speak conversational Norwegian but because everything is in both Nynorsk and Bokmål even I find it difficult to follow some of the long sentences, though I could happily read a whole newspaper in Norwegian! For what my opinion is worth, I say we get rid of the Nynorsk, though I appreciate this might be an emotive issue in Norway, the focus here is to provide a usable phrasebook for a visitor keen to learn a little of this rarely-learnt language. Don't make it more difficult than it needs to be.

Long sentences has nothing to do with Nynorsk/Bokmål. Only government documents are issued in both forms. Private newspapers write anyway they want. Regards --80.212.79.8 21:30, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Split into two separate phrasebooks leaving a disambig page?

So apparently the number of Norwegian speakers and/or people interested in this is rather limited, but given that there are even two separate wikipedias (One Nynorsk and one Bokmal; I hope I spelled this correctly) we might wish to do something which we have done for Spanish (where it seems to make a bit less sense given that there is only one Spanish language Wikipedia). What say ye? Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:43, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

Norwegian phrasebook - split or not?

Swept in from the pub

I am not an expert on Norwegian, but there is not a single Norwegian language Wikipedia, but rather two separate ones. Given that we have separate phrasebooks for European and American Spanish, should we do the same for "Norwegian"? Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:14, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

@Hobbitschuster: True but you would be traveling to different places if you went to Latin America or Spain (or Equatorial Guinea or the Philippines...) and both of the main variations of Norwegian are only used in Norway. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:32, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

I am pretty neutral on the issue, mostly because I know no Norwegian, but I think the two differing standards of written Norwegian roughly correspond to regions of Norway. So depending on which place you go you are more likely to encounter one or the other. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:41, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Looking at the article in question, Bokmal seems to be by far the most common all over Norway, and the only difference between the two is in writing. There's only one Norwegian language spoken everywhere. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:44, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Hm. You could say there are two ways to write the single language, but I think saying there are two ways to write the hundreds of dialects is more correct. Some dialects correspond more closely with one way of writing, others with the other. I think having both together gives the users some hints on the variations also where not directly associated with one of the two, and thus I think it is useful to have both in the same phrasebook. --LPfi (talk) 17:56, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Alternative Banner?

Exisiting

Proposed #1

The existing banner is a little drab and doesn't have much (if any) visible Norwegian language. How about a change? Andrewssi2 (talk) 08:04, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Is "gærjagåetie" Norwegian? The categories suggest Southern Sámi, which seems more plausible. Fra Steinbergdagene på Stenberg 2014 11.JPG is an alternative, if one wants a sign. --LPfi (talk) 10:11, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Yes, it looked like two seperate languages! Do you have any other examples? My germanic knowledge suggests the park bench is in remembrance of someone who died? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 10:32, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

:-)

It is not a park bench, but the wall of a house, and the sign tells the house was moved to the Stenberg outdoor museum from Olterudsætra (sæter=summer farm) in Østre Toten. This was the best I found in Signs in Norway and a few related categories. A bilingual sign would be perfect, but then bilingual in Nynorsk and Bokmål. Some other Norwegian theme could of course also work, but I agree that an image with "ICA" the most visible language is less than optimal. --LPfi (talk) 13:43, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

(The sign succeeds unusually well to avoid easily recognisable common words. Still there are some. Stor is big, hus is house (i.e. the main building), fra is from, lodd is probably (building) lot, flytta is to move, til is to. So not too difficult, once you know the meaning. --LPfi (talk) 14:00, 27 February 2017 (UTC))

Proposed #2

OK, so how does this look for a banner then? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 02:09, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

What's the difference between "tram" and "light rail" in Norwegian / Norway

Is there one? And if so how, how is it obvious to the casual observer? Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:37, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

en:Light rail, but the term is perhaps not well known. A light rail is basically a tram, and some trams run like light rail on separate tracks. --Erik den yngre (talk) 19:15, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

"Bybane" in Bergen is called light rail and I think this is the only one in Norway. The light rail in Bergen covers a longer distance than a typical tram. Oslo has a tram and a metro/subway system, and Trondheim has a single tram line. --Erik den yngre (talk) 19:45, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Help, my hovercraft has been hijacked by angry dwarfs! Can I sleep at your place?

Is there a reason this is included in this phrasebook - and, as far as I can see - only this phrasebook?  Seagull123  Φ  20:53, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Obviously not! Please delete. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:16, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

How did this ever get in here? WV:Bad jokes and other deleted nonsense ? Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:49, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

It was obviously intended to be in the Hungarian phrasebook, not here. Explanation. Ground Zero (talk) 21:49, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

Two separate phrasebooks

Main dialects. Difference in melody is easy to spot (Trøndelag and East Norway have the same). Dialects of Northern Norway are close to West Norway dialects in many ways. Finnmark has particular melody and pronounciation as it is influenced by Sami and Finish.

While this was discussion years ago, I'm bringing this up again. For those unaware, there's two Norsk wikipedias, no.wikipedia (which is proposed to be renamed to nb.wikipedia) and nn.wikipedia, for two separate dialects. For that matter, there is only one Portuguese Wikipedia, but yet we have two separate phrasebooks for those. Even more convincingly, the proposal of a Norwegian Wikivoyage was declined by the language committee for this reason. While I only have a knowledge of tourist Norwegian, I believe we have some editors from Norway here who'd know much more. So why is this not split up? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:45, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Because a tourist would not speak Norwegian well enough to notice the difference. Norwegians learn to write both languages, and they speak neither, but their mother tongue. As Swedish speaking, I read Norwegian fairly well, but I have forgotten the differences I learnt in school, and just sometimes I stumble upon something even I see would be said differently in the other language. From the phrasebook (many phrases are even more close or the same):

• God morgen – God morgon
• takk, bare bra – takk, bærre brah
• Hva heter du? – Kva heiter du?

You'd probably not even pronounce these well enough for anybody to know which one you tried to say. And the written version would be understood regardless of whom you are communicating with. And keeping track of which phrasebook you need where would be awkward.

Erik den yngre might want to comment.

–LPfi (talk) 06:51, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

In short: Norwegians speak dialect ("mother tongue") and write one of the two standards (bokmål or nynorsk). Around 1900 these two standards were more different (bokmål began as a variant of Danish) but has converged. There is a big difference between the Henrik Ibsen's language and modern bokmål. There is basically no clearly defined standard spoken Norwegian (unlike for instance German or French), although in national broadcasting news programs there is certain standard. In some parts of Norway public info is displayed in bokmål and some other parts in nynorsk. Dialects differ a great deal so for instance "hva" (what as in "hva heter du") is pronounced "waa", whereas "kva" ("kva heiter du") is usually pronounced "qaa". Erik den yngre (talk) 15:02, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

As another native Finland Swedish speaker who understands Norwegian to the most part, I'd say there are two main dialects (or dialect groups) of Norwegian, the one spoken in most of the country and the ones spoken in the southwest around Bergen and Stavanger. The former is closer to Swedish, and generally uses bokmål, while discussing with a speaker of the latter will occasionally make me ask them to repeat what they just said and there nynorsk is generally used. Ypsilon (talk) 19:46, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Eastern Norway (around Oslo) is more influenced by Danish, while the vocabulary of Western Norway and Trøndelag may resemble some Swedish (in Sweden my dialect is often perceived as Dalarna dialect). But the intonation of East Norway is perhaps similar to Swedish and thus makes it easier to understand. Erik den yngre (talk) 20:04, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, the pronunciation is more "clearer" in eastern and northern Norway whereas western Norwegian IMO have a touch of Scanian Swedish or even Danish (with the guttural R) or Icelandic and they sometime add some extra vowels like in the example above. Ypsilon (talk) 17:17, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Agder and Rogaland has a hint of Danish or Scanian pronounciation. The guttural R is used around the coast from Kristiansand to Bergen, while north of Bergen there is a powerful rolling R (as in Spain). Sorry, I got lost in details. I guess printed words are most important to visitors, and where nynorsk and bokmål are notably different worth mentioning both (for instance "melk/mjølk"). Erik den yngre (talk) 17:30, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

I still think that those notably different words are few enough that it is easier to include them here than to have separate phrasebooks – and especially for travellers to areas where both are used to find them side by side instead of having to search in two phrasebooks. –LPfi (talk) 07:18, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Agree, no reason to have two phrasebooks. Erik den yngre (talk) 07:26, 17 August 2021 (UTC)