Talk:Osaka

• どうしてそこまで”もうかりまっか”にこだわるのかねぇ。
• 大阪の観光ガイドの記事なのに、なぜ一番最初に「Tokyo」が出てくる？素直に都市の説明を書けば良いだけのこと。なにを印象操作しようとしている？いい加減にしろ。

18 mentions of Tokyo seems excessive to me. Chicago has only 3 mentions of New York.

キタは北区ですが、ミナミは中央区（と浪速区）です。

nygsとして画像をアップしました。全体的にもう少し分かりやすく、客観的に訂正していきたいです。不足情報、誤りも多いと思います。

English summary of the discussion below:

Anon: The current text is biased. There are too many references to Tokyo and it repeats all the usual myths about Osaka (gangsters, merchants, people saying moukarimakka).

Jpatokal: The gangster thing has been NPOV'ed. It's difficult to describe Osaka without comparing it to Tokyo, which is much better known outside Japan. (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:20, 9 Jan 2006 (EST)

書いていることにウソが多すぎる。

全体的に大阪に対する”東京人が喜ぶネタのイメージ”ばかりで書いていないだろうか？

実際、大阪の放送局がシャレでつくりだしたネタでも東京の放送局にかかれば大阪では本当にそうなっていると報道するんだから・・・

例えば？(WT-en) Jpatokal 20:21, 8 Jan 2006 (EST)

あげたらきりがないし、まぁ、誇張表現を指摘したところで、間違いではないって反論されそうだし。

とりあえず、おれは荒らしじゃないし、おれの加筆を消さないでくれよ。

日本語版ウィキペディアでは、「大阪」のところは、意図的に大阪を煽る奴らで無茶苦茶になってて収拾がつかなくなっているけど、ここはそうしたくないし。

>its inhabitants exhibit a strong rivalry towards the Kanto region

まあ‥　そうじゃないか？　大阪に住んでる巨人ファンが少ないと思う‥

いや、巨人ファンはかなり多いよ。巨人ファンのおばちゃんもいるし、巨人の野球帽被った少年もいっぱいいる。

は～い。"friendly rivalry"にした。

冒頭の部分だが、文章的にも、「大阪は京阪神で最大の都市」と「関東地区に対抗心むき出し」を転んで一文に繋いでいるというのも不思議である。

とりあえず、関東地区への対抗というところは、Kansaiのほうに統一して書いておく。現状は、全体的に都市の説明というより、あなた方の考える「大阪人」の説明になっている。

Understandなんて、酷すぎる。

"Japan's best place to eat, drink and party"が酷すぎる!?

その部分以外のところが変。

江戸時代のことについて、江戸と京都を出して書くなら、客観的に「江戸・大坂・京都が三都で、天下の台所と呼ばれた」と書くべきだし、「もうかりまっか」って・・・ 外人が言えば人と仲良くなれるっていうことは悪い事じゃないが、解説が間違っている。

外人が「もうかりまっか」っていえば人が絶対笑うよ！

だから、「もうかりまっか」は問題ないんだけど、説明が間違ってるんだって。

Stay Safeも、yakuzaの本場は神戸だし、大阪より東京のほうが多い。

なるほど。直しました。(WT-en) Jpatokal 00:42, 9 Jan 2006 (EST)

神戸が本場ってことを記述する必要は・・・？もし、そのことを書くのなら、東京のほうが多いと言うことも記述すべき。 それを避けたいならyakuzaの記述は抹消すべき。yakuzaは、日本全国にいるし、多いところを書くなら東京だし、本部なら神戸だし。それに、大阪弁で話すっていうけど、舞台は東京が多いような・・・

東京のこと追加した。

ってか、わざわざヤクザのことを書く必要は・・・ココに書くなら、TokyoのStay Safeのところにも書くべきだな。実際東京の方が多いんだし。

あと、ヤクザは大阪弁っていうけど、大阪弁より神戸弁のほうが柄が悪いんだよ？大阪弁って言うのは、ヤクザの柄の悪い関西弁じゃなく、有識者とか、本格的な上方落語家が話す言葉なんだけど。。。

ドラマやマンガのヤクザの言葉は、神戸弁・泉州弁・河内弁・姫路弁などから柄の悪い部分（相手を威嚇）を抽出されたものだろう。

まぁ、ともかく、「おいやめろ。大阪が安全って書かれている」のようなコメントは正直、荒らしだし、煽りだし。

外国人が大阪で被害に遭うことは少ないと思うよ。東京の六本木は外国人の店が多く、ドラッグが蔓延して、かなりの外人が死んでいる。それに関する記述が無くて、そこよりずっと安全な大阪について、このような映画のイメージの恐怖を煽るのは、適切ではないだろう。これでは、外国の２流のガイドブックレベルだ。

あと、全体的に”Tokyo”が多い。誰が書いたのかは知らないが、もう少し普通に大阪について書くべきだろう。「東京」は悪くは書かれていないのに、この「大阪」は、あまり良くは書かれていない。

まあ。残念ながら、外国には東京が大阪より百倍有名だから、東京に比べないとどうやって大阪のことを説明すればいい？

"Kita has tall buildings"とか"Minami has many shops"と書いてもいいけど、雰囲気はあまり通じないと思う。日本に行く外人が大体皆「銀座」とか「新宿」を何となく分かるからさあ‥

それこそ、日本人の東京至上主義に見える。

決して大阪を良く見せるためのプロパガンダでもなく、分かりやすい説明をしたいので、即削除じゃなくて、協力してほしい。

私が編集したものを削除なさるが、なにも意図せずに客観的に書いている。主観が入っているのは、そちらのほうではないだろうか。もう少し、平等な視点から書くべきだろう。

今書いたことを削除するより新しい事を書く方がいいじゃないか。まだ載ってない主な情報ある？

(WT-en) Jpatokal 22:58, 9 Jan 2006 (EST)

訂正をしたいんだよ。あまりにも、ステレオタイプ（東京から見た）のネタの大阪が多すぎる。

なにか大阪に対して悪意を感じる雰囲気の文章だ。他の都市の記事のような、もうすこし客観的な書き方をしたい。

もちろん、情報の不足も多いと感じる。

ここのやりとりからも、Jpatokalさんは、大阪のことをあまり分かっていうことが分かった。

The following comment was posted under the text of Understand, which I've altered to address some of the suggestions. (WT-en) Joel, 11:41, 13 June 2006

簡単な歴史を書くなら、 ・京都より古くから難波津があり、難波京がおかれ首都だった。 ・秀吉によって大阪城が造られた。 ・江戸時代には、江戸、京都とともに三都で、全国から米などが集まる経済の中心だった。 ・そのため商人の町だった。 ・明治維新により産業革命が起こり、大阪は東洋のマンチェスターとして工業も発展。 西日本の中心都市。日本第二の都市。

以上です。

「もうかりまっか」は書いた方が、実際の旅行に役に立ちますが、説明を正しいものにする必要があります。

おおきに。ちょっと書き直したんだけど、もうちょと直さなければなりませんか。

Request for Clarification

>>Kansai Scene Magazine is a source for current club listings in Osaka, Kyoto and Kobe.

Useful the referred-to site may be, but is providing a link to this site conforming to the Wikivoyage policy after all?

Stay Safe

South to Shin-Imamiya Station is the area called "Airin"　あいりん地区 or "Kamagasaki"　釜ヶ崎. It can be dangerous all day, not only at nights. Unless visiting this type of places is a part of your objective, I would rather say avoid if possible.

Many references are available on searches thru the Net not only in Japanese, but interestingly enough in English too.

With that said here, I have no further intent to edit the main article so long as this topic is concerned. (WT-en) 60dot 07:59, 1 March 2007 (EST)

(end of section above)

Jpatokalさん，君に質問があるのだけれども、良いかな？

どうぞ。英語の方がいいけど。(WT-en) Jpatokal 00:39, 1 March 2007 (EST)

Jpatokal、君は資料の出典を明らかにしていない。以下の質問にすみやかに解答されたい。 You didn’t give source of the information.　 Answer　the　followinng　questions　as　soon　as　passible！ 君の大阪についての知識は、他人からの受け入りか？ Do you know about Osaka only from hearsay? Is it all information from second hand? それとも君の勝手な憶測か？ Oder your own speculation ？ 君は日本語が「流暢」というのは本当か？ Is　it　true　that　you　speak　Japanese　“fluently”？ 君が英語での「儲かりまっか」の記述の第一バイオリニストか？ Are you just one who is the first violinist for the description of “mokarimakka” in English ？

難波っ子の彼女に聞いてくれ。 (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:05, 1 March 2007 (EST)

難波っ子の彼女？　その人間からの聞きかじりa smatterling of information を英文にしたのかな？Jpatokal、まだ答えていないけれど、これは重要な質問。それとも、答えられない理由でもあるのかな？

一昨年から大阪市とその外郭団体は、世界中に蔓延する反大阪キャンペーンの発生源を調査している。Jpatokal、君が張本人だな！既に社会問題化しているのだ。緩慢に、だが確実に君は変化を感じているはずだ君の社会的責任は極めて重い。君に対する法的措置が開始されるだろう。名誉毀損罪（刑法230条、法定刑：3年以下の懲役若しくは禁錮）。 君は日本で平和に市民として暮らすことを願うか、それとも犯罪者として余生を送ることか？　大阪記事を書いた動機と背景を明らかにすることが賢明だ。

　Since the year before last Osaka City and its filial organizations are

 investigating the scene of Anti‐Osaka‐Campaign which spreads on a worldwide 
 level.

　Jpatokal, you are the instigator of this Campaign！ 　It’s already grown into a social problem. 　Slowly but certainly you get a feeling for a change in your life, don’t you？ 　Your responsibility weigh extreme heavily. 　A legal measure will be initiated against YOU ！ 　It’s a calumnation （defamation）; According to Japanese Criminal Law

 maximal to ３ years’  imprisonment.     

　Do you wish to live further as a citizen in Japan, or to spend as an ex-

 convict the rest of your life？

　It is advisable for you to make a clean breast of your motive for that article

 and background.

2nd largest

Both Tokyo and Yokohama are larger than Osaka. Of course, a hair-splitting bureaucrat would object that Tokyo is a 都, not a 市, but we're not hair-splitting bureaucrats. (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:46, 1 March 2007 (EST)

横浜より大阪のほうが大きいですから。

Wikipediaによって

横浜市 3,606,902人（2007年2月1日）

大阪市 2,636,256人（2007年1月1日）

1月から百万人増えたのでしょうか？

市の夜間人口比べるのですか？　昼間人口は大阪市350万人、横浜市250万人だよ。

suggestion

日本語で議論されている皆さんへ。

事の経緯は知りませんが、次のことが解決への手がかりになるのではないでしょうか？

・記事を書く場合、根拠を示す。　

・記事を削除するとき、根拠を示す。（本来は、文章の校正に留めるか、ディスカッション（discussion)での断り書きがあった方がよいかも。）　

・主観をできるだけ排除する。（Wikivoyageは、個人の日記ではないので。）

私も、何箇所か、”？”と思う記事はありますので、今後、そうしていかれたらいいかと思います。

やってみると、難しい面もありますが、（人間ですから、全くの客観的文章も、なかなかありえないので・・） まあ、Wikivoyageですし、徐々にやっていきませんか？

Jpatokalさん、署名なしさん、どうでしょうか？ よろしくご検討ください。

（それにしても、日本語が分からない人たちにとっては、これらの書き込み、なんなんだろうな・・と思うでしょうね。　（＾＾；　）

203.141.129.91 : 13:24, 2 Mar. 2007 (JST) 同意。ところが注目の人＝われらのシンガポール人は無根拠な記事を書いておいて、それを指摘されると恐れをなして、只今、逃走中。 われらのシンガポール人は、大阪・記事に対して、倫理的も法的にも「やましい」ものがあるのでしょう。どのような背景で彼がこの記事を書いたのか、徐々に明らかになってきた。

恣意的な編集をしているのはJpatokalさんなんですけど？

Understand

Section updated.

I tried to keep the anti-Tokyo stuff in, with some modifications, and moving it into an infobox. In my honest opinion, it is better pulled out though; this disussion really doesn't belong here. I understand many of you are good at Japanese, so why not try Googling with keywords like "大阪　東京　関西　関東　ライバル　対抗　意識" and think over. (WT-en) 60dot 07:27, 3 March 2007 (EST)

I think the bigger problem here is that most of you don't seem to understand English. It's not a bad thing to be an "anti-capital": it means that the city is almost as important as a capital, and acts as a counterweight, like a magnet has a north pole and a south pole. The "friendly rivalry" for Giants vs Hanshin, soba vs udon, left vs right, 50Hz vs 60Hz is a reality and it should be mentioned — Wikivoyage is not saying that Tokyo is good and Osaka is bad! (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:06, 3 March 2007 (EST)

それなら、東京の記事記事にもanti-Osaka、anti-Kansaiと書くべきではないだろうか？また、それほどにもantiと書きたいのなら、Kansaiの記事に書いたらどうだろうか？3番目の都市ということは大阪市を指しているわけだ。限定的な大阪市の記事に書くのはいかがなものか。また、エスカレーターの立ち位置については、東京がわざわざ大阪の反対にしたわけであり、君の書き方では、大阪が反東京だからわざわざ逆にしたと取るのが自然。

The opposite of "anti-capital" is "capital", and Tokyo is the capital. Tokyo doesn't need to be described in terms of any other city, because it's big enough to stand completely alone. But why is Osaka more important than, say, Saitama or Sendai? The reason is that it's Japan's second most important city -- the anti-capital. (WT-en) Jpatokal 06:49, 6 March 2007 (EST)

OK, let's discuss this. If differences are observed, just mention it. There is no need of adding any flavor on top of it. I guess, if someone didn't understand English, somebody else didn't want to try understand one others heart.

Even if it was true that city like Osaka, as just one example, was as important as Tokyo, what do those references to sports and food have to do with it at all?

(i) Baseball - I guess there are more Yanks fans than Redsox fans in NY. Same vice versa. People in Nagoya are crazy about the Chunichi Dragons, Hiroshima guys alike when talking about the Carps. So what is the big deal about that?

(ii) Food - udon is beloved. the soya sauce used in the soup has lighter color. All from tradition, it doesn't prove anything more.

(iii) Escalators - yes it's a fact, but nothing else. It doesn't make Osaka more important because of it. People from Osaka who haven't ever visited Tokyo won't even know it's the opposite there.

Last, but not the least, do me a favor putting those edits back related to corrections around history and the 808 Bridge typo. I'm not in the mood to redo it just because the whole edit was reverted through a single click. Thank you in advance. (WT-en) 60dot 08:56, 3 March 2007 (EST)

I agree with Jpatokal. Although the prefix "anti-" is often used for negative words, the term "anti-capital", as written in this article, does not have a negative meaning in English. We can probably find a different term if necessary, but I can't see how this article could be interpreted as negative toward Osaka. (It's more positive and insightful than Lonely Planet's writing on Osaka, I think.) When I lived there, I was introduced to the Kansai / Kanto dynamic by Osaka people themselves. There is plenty of literature about it as well. One of my favorite books is Junichiro Tanizaki's The Makioka Sisters (aka Sasame-yuki). The author uses a few trips to Tokyo to show why the characters love Osaka so much, and it's very effective. "Flavor" is important in a travel article. Why should a visitor choose to visit Osaka over any other city? Because they think it has a good "flavor". Surely you must admit that the rivalry between the Tigers and the Giants is something special. (The Carp don't have any rivalries that create the same excitement.) Points like that are interesting for visitors. Those points show that Osaka people have energy, passion, and pride in their city. Remember, this article is written for people who are unfamiliar with Osaka.

Some mentions of Tokyo are unnecessary - for example, when we mention that USJ is the second-biggest theme park, we don't really need to mention that Tokyo Disneyland is the biggest. Things like those could be deleted without weakening the article. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 10:48, 3 March 2007 (EST)

Thank you for your second opinion. I am just about thinking to degrade my notes on the Babel stuff on English, but nevertheless:

Facts like Osaka people being fond of udon or riding escalators on the opposite side than in Tokyo are just facts. They do not represent in any way the energy, passion or pride people have in the city. It is so irritating when someone starts to cast an impression by telling that these are some examples how Osaka people are proud of themselves. Yes these differences

may be interesting for visitors, but do not try to tie those up with the way Osaka people want to be proud. I repeat, udon is just a tradition, so is the light-colored soya sauce, and even the okonomiyaki. If those differences are so important, let's be more specific. So long as food is concerned, the same topic is repeated in so many places like in the top Japan page or elsewhere, but if it has to be repeated once again, it is more appropriate in the Kansai page than in a geographically much narrowed down individual city pages. Otherwise, it can be repeated there and here. As to to the way how people ride on the escalators, I repeat here again, it is another simple fact; you don't have to stay in Osaka for a year to discover that and it has in no way any relationship to what Osaka is about or how Osaka people are furiously passionate. When it comes to baseball, the most important difference between the Tigers and the Carp in our context is only how long time they have "rivaled" against the once nine-season-in-a-row champion Giants. Yes, I admit it is not completely free of any rivalry passion between the cities of Osaka and Tokyo, but I would rather say it is more tied to such "anti-ism" between the rich-funded Yomiuri group baseball team and all the other five baseball clubs belonging to the Central League. (And that seems to be half over too, with the decline of Giants.) It is not necessarily whether the prefix "anti-" has a negative notion in it or not; it is the way how Osaka has to be introduced to someone unfamiliar to it. It is indeed because we are looking at some potential new-comer to Osaka that I am trying to avoid giving out a prejudiced view here in Wikivoyage. You must have heard from many Osakans about how people compare themselves to Tokyo, I have no doubt, nor am I surprised. But here you are listening to another version. I am hoping that by now you are starting to understand why I modified the text into the way it appeared in my infobox draft.

Besides, I am looking for some inarguable evidence that confirms Osaka is "a centrally located hub of commerce and industry for the country as a whole" --- very roughly centrally located in Japan, yes - but what does the latter part mean after all; the merchandized products Osaka (prefecture, in this case) is far smaller than in Tokyo in value, does support Kansai region but hardly outside, and is almost being caught up by Aichi Pref recently. (WT-en) 60dot 12:42, 3 March 2007 (EST)

I've re-incorporated some of the deletions and dropped a couple of Tokyo references, although I still have to agree with Jpatokal that the regional rivalry infobox did not read well. You keep complaining that certain things are just "facts". Well, I like the information about the 808 Bridges...but it's just a fact. All that about Osaka being the capital 1,400 years ago? That's just a fact, too. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be included - facts are good. There isn't any one "fact" that can tell the whole story of a city. So, to make a travel guide, we put many little facts together and, hopefully, we make a big picture that intrigues a visitor. If you feel that Osaka is compared too often to Tokyo, that's fine. But the solution is not to pretend that it is never compared to Tokyo. You don't care about the so-called rivalry, but other Osaka people do. What you should do is add some content that is a) useful for visitors and b) specific to Osaka. For example, this article makes little or no mention of comedy / manzai or the Osaka dialect. I don't feel qualified to write it, but it would be nice to have something on that subject, and it wouldn't have to mention Tokyo at all.

And, sorry, I can't agree about baseball - I know Tigers fans and I know Carp fans, I've been to games at Koshien and Hiroshima Stadium, and there is no comparison between the feelings of Tigers fans about the Giants and the feelings of Carp fans about the Giants. To Carp fans, winning is their main rival, not any particular team. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 21:55, 3 March 2007 (EST)

Appreciate your efforts on putting back some of the text.

I would just like to make one point clear so that you do not take me wrong about the capital factsheet; it's simply wrong. The first time I put some little mention in here it was kept as vague as that Osaka was once a capital, without even refferring to exact years. I thought it was just about enough and it really doesn't matter more. Then it was changed to something with years that I can only trace its source to Wikipedia, which was, unfortunately, wrong. I then corrected them here; now reverted. That's where we stand. I personally don't care if the whole thing about it is gone, but I will not redo it myself; at least not after having seen the way it can be removed.

There is no disagreement here that we are trying to gather some "facts" and topics unique to Osaka in light of pulling larger attention of potential visitors. Obviously I did not do quite well in appealing that the 808 Bridges is one of such, a topic that has much more than its names, history and backgrounds, hidden behind --- I missed much of the "why" part, but this is an example essentially no different manzai, if you wish.

We can compare different cities any time; all what I am saying is whenever it's done, it has to be done with a clear evidence, and necessity. If Osaka is viewed as an anti-capital by somebody, fine --- but how, and why.

Baseball: after all, arguing over this is getting pointless - and off our main topic. Do me allow some comments though - I am a Tigers fan myself, and I do know Carp fans too. I cannot read into Carp fans mind because I know one. I confess I have never been to Hiroshima stadium, but yes to Koshien. During my stay in Kanto I've been to stadiums like Jingu (Yakult) and Yokohama, where sometimes we find more Tigers fan than the hometeamers. And of course, winning the game, any game, is nothing but priority. (Giants are too weak these days) In addition, obviously not everybody from Kansai is a Tigers fan, nor is all Tigers fan from the region.

(WT-en) 60dot 02:40, 4 March 2007 (EST)

A Second cut

Another version after reflection --- The revised text addresses and frees the limitation of having to look for a good reason to back up calling Osaka an anti-capital in quantitive material; opens it to any variety of qualitive reasons; and by attempting to urge everyone look for such by your own, thus giving much bigger room eventually, and hopefully allowing many find a place to fit oneself in. (WT-en) 60dot 18:08, 4 March 2007 (EST)

"japaneselifestyle"

I found this page,

http://www.japaneselifestyle.com.au/travel/kansai_airport.html

Why is there the same article at Wikivoyage ? (about kix, 12:44, 21 February 2007 )

And there is a sentence on this page.

"Article based on Wikivoyage article by Wikivoyage users Jpatokal. Based on work by Wikivoyage user(s) Nils. Article used under Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 1.0.) "

Isn't this have any problem in a copyright?

savasa 13:29, 6 March 2007 (EST)

Nope, we use Copyleft instead. (WT-en) Jpatokal 13:02, 6 March 2007 (EST)

So,I wish you(or they?) update it too,same as.

202.33.162.69 08:40, 7 March 2007 (JST)

漢字

1."Distincts" : I don't know the bridge "阿部野橋". By the way , on the other hand there is a bridge "阿倍野橋" near "阿部野橋" station,is not lost. But I don't know a lost bridge of this name.

What is a resource of this article ?

2."Distincts" : I don't understand "Shinsaibashi still retain their crossings.".But there is a pedestrian bridge as other one.

What is a resource of this article ?

3."Do" : Usually,it isn't say "大相撲大阪場所" as sumo tournament in March.There isn't such a regular tournament,too. It is "大相撲春場所 (Sumo Spring Grand Tournament)",because the another association of sumo was in Osaka before over 50 years old,had held tournaments.(There was a exclusive stadium at Senbayashi,of course.)

It shuld be amend.

addition.  : "Eat" : I didn't explain "Ikayaki".It usually is a barbeque of squid,but in Osaka,it is something like crepe or thin Okonomiyaki,include fillets of a squid,tasted like Okonomiyaki.Although there were many stands on the premises of temple or a shrine.(for example at a festival (EX. on new year day or summer festival)) in japan,it is often seen "ikayaki" stands. (But it is different among district "Ikayaki".).This type is seld at Hanshin department (Umeda),shops at big railway stations and airports in Osaka.

202.33.162.69 14:00, 8 March 2007 (JST)

ana hotel

where would this go under sleep? --71.254.97.20 09:54, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

Pig and Whistle change

The Pig and Whistle is now closed. It was bought and changed to a Hub. Hub is a British style pub with locations in Namba, Umeda, and now Shinsaibashi.

Canadian Consulate

The Canadian Consulate in Osaka has been closed in 2007, according to the Consul at the Consulate in Nagoya. Maybe somebody can verify this and delete the entry in the listing. (WT-en) Azolotkov 08:56, 19 July 2009 (EDT)

It is not listed here [1], so I will delete it. Thanks! (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 11:58, 19 July 2009 (EDT)

Get Around

The Osaka Unlimited Pass (¥2000) excludes the use of JR trains. See Q6 at the bottom of this page: http://www.pia-kansai.ne.jp/osp/en/01_guide.php --203.217.63.253 01:54, 23 January 2011 (EST)

Huge City?

Surely Osaka is deserving of huge city status? It's to all extents and purposes the 2nd city of Japan. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 210.143.245.129 (talk • contribs)

"Huge city status" means there's so much content in the article that it's worth splitting up into districts, it's not just based on the population. (Even Dhaka, population 12 million, doesn't use it.) Right now the Osaka article doesn't seem long enough to make further division worthwhile – especially the Buy and Eat sections, which are very short indeed. If we ever add enough listings that the article becomes difficult to read, then it'll be time to reconsider. — (WT-en) D. Guillaime 15:00, 20 September 2011 (EDT)

I would agree though that, knowing the city somewhat, the information in the article does need to be enhanced and expanded to that point. It's a shame we don't have a better article for this awesome city.(WT-en) texugo 22:20, 20 September 2011 (EDT)

Incidentally, the Japanese version has been districted (indeed, perhaps over-districted) and has a ton more listings. Going to append a translate tag. (WT-en) texugo 22:59, 20 September 2011 (EDT)

Looks like some districts have been created without being linked to in the main article:

• Osaka/Bay Area
• Osaka/South
• Osaka/Central
• Osaka/East
• Osaka/North

(WT-en) Eco84 14:09, 28 November 2011 (EST)

I think we need more articles about Osaka.

So, I made ​​a map of Osaka.　Please give me a little more time and your advice

(WT-en) kambayashi 21:48, 28 November 2011 (EST)

Nice looking map. My comment: In tourism circles at least, Osaka is known as a city with two centers, so if we are going to districtify (and I think we should), I think the Central district should be divided in two: one centering around the Umeda area, and one centering around the Namba/Shinsaibashi area. Each area has a unique flavor and both areas are packed full of bars, restaurants, lodging, and attractions, so I think it would be weird to combine them. (WT-en) texugo 23:04, 28 November 2011 (EST)

Thank you for your advice.I made a revised map.(WT-en) kambayashi 06:24, 2 December 2011 (EST)

The new map divisions look perfectly reasonable to me, but it seems a little odd to name them Kita and North, Minami and South. Can we call Kita "North Central" and Minami "South Central"?(WT-en) texugo 01:36, 3 December 2011 (EST)

Yes we can. but I think that we should write "Kita" and "Minami".(WT-en) kambayashi 01:04, 5 December 2011 (EST)

Districts Revisited

The discussion above is inconclusive and the current map has districts not even discussed. I think it would be more beneficial to the traveler to rename the Kita area "Umeda" and name the "Minami" area "Namba". Also "Osaka Castle" is awkward. Maybe "Castle Park" is better? ChubbyWimbus (talk) 04:29, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Banner

While the current banner does feature one of the city's famous sites, to me it doesn't feel representative of what defines Osaka and what attracts people to it. Osaka is Kansai's biggest city, home to much of the area's best shopping, nightlife, etc. Especially with historic cities like Kyoto and Nara nearby, the historic sites are not exactly Osaka's biggest draw. Personally, I'd rather see something like a night-time street scene, cityscape, Dotombori, even a big octopus from a takoyaki restaurant... Something that better captures the city's spirit. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 11:39, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Replaced with a slice of neon signs from the Dotombori canal: shopping, nightlife, and making money. The same picture (before cropping) is in use at Osaka/Minami, but could be replaced with another such photo, of which there are many -- policy is to avoid reusing banners on more than one page, but does that also include reusing a banner's source? I tried finding a daytime shopping scene around Umeda, but didn't have much success finding an image that looked good with a 7:1 crop. -- D. Guillaume (talk) 06:11, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Alternative banner for this article?

In the Hebrew Wikivoyage we are currently using this banner instead of the one which is currently used here. Do you think too that this banner would would better than the existing one? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 06:41, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Yes. Both banners have interest and energy, but this panorama is a better composition. I like it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:11, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Mixed feelings. I generally prefer to use images that really capture a city's spirit. Cityscapes, to me, are fillers until we can get better, more unique and interesting representations of a city. Cityscapes are safe, so they are nice if they're the only option, but they tend to make every location look like "just another city". ChubbyWimbus (talk) 13:31, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Text is bleeding across the map

Please fix that, someone who knows how. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:12, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Overnight by train with rest stop

Can we delete this section? I don't see what value it adds. It is essentially suggesting that Osaka could be part of a travel itinerary that includes more than just Osaka and Tokyo which sounds a lot like something Captain Obvious would say. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 13:11, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, a deletion seems in order - or, maybe better, a move of that section to this talk page. It's kind of like having a section in the overall New York City guide about staying in Queens/Jamaica overnight in order to use New York as a rest stop between two flights at JFK. And some of the general advice could be moved to a Japan by rail article, if anyone wants to start one. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:48, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

I have no problem putting it here, although in addition to the above complaints, it shouldn't save money to stay at a hotel in Nagoya or Shizuoka vs going straight to Osaka (both Tokyo and Osaka have cheap options), and we're also talking about a 2.5 hour train ride, so it's quite fast. Not really necessary to split the time. Here is the removed section:

"Overnight by train with rest stop"

As a Rail Pass holder, you may also choose to simply split up your journey, stopping at an intermediate destination en route in order to sleep somewhere, and the cost incurred will only be for the hotel room. This is also a good way to travel overnight, especially if you are able to find cheap accommodation, such as a business hotel. Yes, it may be a little hectic, and it might require some research, but this method carries two significant advantages: location and money. You will more than likely find good accommodation very close to a main train station in a smaller city, compared to a big city such as Tokyo, and it will more than likely be cheaper than hotels found in Tokyo. You could use the money you save to forward some of your luggage to Osaka using a luggage delivery service and take an overnight bag with you, which will make the journey easier.

For example, you can use the Tokaido Shinkansen late at night and sleep over at a hotel in Shizuoka, Hamamatsu, Toyohashi or Nagoya; In the morning, grab one of the first bullet train departures in the same direction to continue your trip. Another option is to take the Hokuriku Shinkansen to Kanazawa, spend the night there, and take the Thunderbird limited express to Osaka the next day.

During the peak travel seasons, JR runs an overnight service called the Moonlight Nagara between Tokyo and Ōgaki in Gifu Prefecture, from which you must continue on to Osaka by regular trains. The Nagara can be used by holders of the Seishun 18 Ticket, and as a result, is in very high demand when it runs; seat reservations are compulsory." ChubbyWimbus (talk) 13:27, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

• I wrote this section, and can confirm that some of the details are included in Rail travel in Japan. I am reverting the part of this pertaining to the Moonlight Nagara since this is really one of the few overnight train options left. JRHorse (talk) 20:12, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Map Misspelling

Bentencho Station is missing the second e ChubbyWimbus (talk) 08:07, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

District change

There's a district redlink and a lot of outline districts in this huge city. This is my proposal for the districts; if someone knows the city, your opinion is welcome.

• Bay Area = West
• Kita + Minami + Osaka Castle = Centre
• Tennoji + South = South
• Remove the "East" district since it redlinks

What do you think? We would need to change the static map. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 14:25, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Good proposal. I would include East in Centre - there may be listings for the East some day. What happens to North? Ground Zero (talk) 15:35, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

I don't think North District needs to be changed. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 16:42, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Weak objection. As the lead section mentions, Osaka had developed Manchester-ish character, actually since late 16th century to produce katana swords for clans battling to top others. I will try and find those then sword-smith, who attract increasing tourists fishing for good kitchen knives in East Osaka. Both tourists and natives would be puzzled to find East included in Central Osaka, I am afraid, or try to picture mingling Manchester with Liverpool or York, or San Pedro with downtown LA. (; --Omotecho (talk) 15:35, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

This article is still on a list of articles with active district discussions. Were the discussions resolved, or is there still something to decide? Also, off-topic in this thread, but is it important to keep the extensive Japanese text on this talk page after all these years, or could it be deleted or at least archived? Most of us can't read it, and it looks like it was based on an intemperate overreaction to language that was not ill-intended. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:10, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Dynamic map

Can we eliminate it, please? The preference in districted cities is to have a static map. If any of the numbered points on the dynamic map need to be moved to the static map, would someone who knows how please do it? Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:03, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

I agree with eliminating it. Looking at the points on the map, Itami Airport is already marked and the others are "Do" listings that have not been moved into districts, so I don't think they need to be put on the static map. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 14:09, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

Great. Any objections to simply removing the dynamic map? Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:43, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

No objection, so I will delete it. It can always be restored if someone offers a convincing reason for doing so. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:57, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

Get In

I will soon work on updating the fares and travel details for this section as a consequence of the October consumption tax hike. We've added lots of important information here over the years. I'm wondering if the section should be condensed/reduced a little bit. Any thoughts are welcome. JRHorse (talk) 13:21, 28 November 2019 (UTC)