User talk:Koavf

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For posts from my old Wikitravel account

see User_talk:Koavf/Archive

Welcome[edit]

Hello Koavf! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page.

If you are a Wikipedian then you may notice some differences in policies and the style of our articles. These include:

It may also be very useful for you to check out Wikivoyage:Welcome, Wikipedians. If you need help, take a look at Project:Help, or else post a message in the travellers' pub or on my talk page. Thanks for contributing! JamesA >talk 07:38, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Your interesting signature[edit]

Although I like to think my English is good, it was not the language I first spoke and I could not decipher what the symbols meant. If it's a secret you can email me and I promise to keep it; if not, please explain here, Justin. Thanks! -- Alice 08:46, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

No secrets First off, your English seems fine to me--I certainly understand you! Furthermore, my signature isn't a secret: ❤ (heart) is for love, ☮ (peace sign) is for peace, ☺ (smiley face) is for non-violence, ☯ (taijian) is for intuition. Or, to put it in religious terms, agape, shalom, ahimsa, and wu wei. Feel free to ask me whatever you'd like here or via e-mail. —Justin (koavf)TCM 09:48, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the prompt response, Justin. I did look at your very interesting User page on Wikipedia before I wrote you and I kinow that you are a person of faith and convictions. I think my confusion was because of the circular shape of the symbols and I wondered if they should be substituted for the letter O-oscar, leading to a signature of "I love ToCoMo" and I could not figure out who or what ToCoMo was! Sorry to be abstruse or nosey -- Alice 22:42, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
ToCoMo No, they don't mean that, but I now wonder how many others thought that... No worries, being nosy--you're fine! How's the weather in Singapore? —Justin (koavf)TCM 06:45, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
The weather doesn't change very much in Singapore so we talk about other things (grin). I'm not in Singapore right now - I get to travel quite a lot and the weather right now in the Southern Hemisphere late spring is terrific - it's Goldilocks weather - not too hot, not too cold, just right! So, again being nosy (just don't answer if you don't care to), why are the symbols separated by those particular consonants of Tango-Charlie-Mike, Justin?
Incidentally, I think some good points were made atWikivoyage:Travellers'_pub#Babel_templates, don't you?
What the heck is the section underneath about? What on earth are "DotM and OtBP icons"? -- Alice 06:53, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
Symbols T = User talk:Koavf, c = Special:Contributions/Koavf, m = Special:EmailUser/Koavf. Wikidata just got started up and establishing user language categories is a real priority over there, since it's multi-lingual, so that just got me thinking. I don't want to see some mistakes repeated over here. "DotM" is "Destination of the Month"—a highlighted spot that has a well-written travel guide—and "OtBP" is "Off the Beaten Path"—for more obscure locations. See Wikivoyage:Destination_of_the_month. How are you enjoying South America? Do you know Portuguese or Spanish? —Justin (koavf)TCM 07:36, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
Ahhhhhhh, now the penny drops! By the way, did you know that, for some obscure reason that I cannot fathom looking at your signature code, the "T" is not being linked to your Talk page when I hover my mouse over it or even click on it?
Thanks for explaining those acronyms - I've been searching for quite a while but was too frightened of asking Peter - he can be a bit sharp.
I've never been in South America and I'm a bit reluctant to specify exactly where I am in the Southern Hemisphere since, due to my rather special position, I value my privacy very highly - sorry not to be as open as yourself but I think you would understand why if we ever meet and I tell you the full story... -- Alice 07:50, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Acronyms and such I'd be interested in knowing more about your adventurous lifestyle. If you're willing, go ahead and e-mail me... —Justin (koavf)TCM 09:37, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

adding categories to articles.[edit]

Has there been some change to category methods? Until now articles have been added to the region above category via IsPartOf. Any reason for adding articles to its own category such as with Belfast? --Traveler100 (talk) 05:06, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

No I'm just ignorant. I was trying to clear up unused categories and it seemed like Belfast should be the main article in Category:Belfast. —Justin (koavf)TCM 05:09, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
Yes there are a number of categories that need deleting. Mainly due to region articles being renamed and the old category once emptied not being deleted. --Traveler100 (talk) 05:11, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Speedy deletion[edit]

Hi Koavf, may I know why you added speedy deletion template to Template:User th-0 when its a legitimate template. --Saqib (talk) 08:39, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Utility Why would we use this template at all? How is it useful to know that someone on an English-language website doesn't know any Thai? Besides, the Babel extension can indicate this anyway. —Justin (koavf)TCM 15:28, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
We've bunch of xx-0 templates so lets not use this template (and every xx-0) for every language that you don't know, but only when there is some reason why you might be expected to know it. For example, one may be of Thai descent, but does not speak the Thai language, or if one lives in Thailand but does not speak Thai. I myself living in UAE since a long time but doesn't speak Arabic unfortunately. --Saqib (talk) 16:00, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
Granted But why would you use a template rather than the Bable extension? —Justin (koavf)TCM 16:35, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
I'm not so sure about this. It would be better if you please raise this issue on pub. --Saqib (talk) 16:40, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
Babel I did but it's not in the archives anymore. —Justin (koavf)TCM 17:03, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
There was some discussion of this here. That discussion seems inconclusive to me, but it might be worth restarting. --Peter Talk 21:55, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

My instant reaction is that Justin is correct for the reasons he stated so cogently in December 2102. --W. Franke-mailtalk 14:49, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Western_Sahara#wv:EngVar[edit]

An answer to your (rhetorical?) recent edit summary is at the above discussion page, Justin.

I hope that, after reading it, you self-revert in this case, Justin. All the best! --W. Franke-mailtalk 14:46, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Your edit to my user page[edit]

What was up with that? --Jonboy (talk) 22:31, 9 November 2013 (UTC) "It's possible for other users to edit, change, delete, move, overwrite, add to, or otherwise mess around with User pages or subpages. It's generally considered bad form to do so, though, unless invited by the user." Wikivoyage:User_page_help#Using_a_personal_sandbox. Please do not do that again. If you have an argument to make that naming myself a docent of my own user page somehow harms Wikivoyage, please make it, rather than breaching etiquette. --Jonboy (talk) 23:09, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

I'm trying to figure out why you have a problem with me naming myself a docent of my own user page?
  1. It's funny.
  2. It is a test of the markup.

If the problem is that you don't want my page to appear Category:HasDocent, then just say that, instead of making uninvited edits to my user page. I've had the code on my page (at the previous site) longer than the category has existed, but if it's become a problem, I'm happy to change it. --Jonboy (talk) 13:34, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Category I don't want your userpage to appear in Category:HasDocent, which I thought I had made clear earlier but I guess not. —Justin (koavf)TCM 17:53, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for fixing the template; that's clearly the best solution. --Jonboy (talk) 16:11, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Default sort[edit]

Hi, Koavf. What is the "Default sort" template, and what does it do? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:11, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Sorting {{DEFAULTSORT}} is a magic word that sorts pages in categories. E.g. Åstorp will be sorted with "Å" (after Z), but if you add {{DEFAULTSORT:Astorp}}, it will be sorted with A, where one would expect to find it. —Justin (koavf)TCM 05:17, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
Oh, I see. Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:53, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Travellers[edit]

Hi, Koavf. Very small point, but way back, Evan made "travellers" the standard Wikitravel (in those days) spelling for documents. We've kept it at Wikivoyage. It's also the standard spelling in British English, and I believe in all non-US varieties of English, so it's best not to "correct" it in articles about destinations outside of the US and a few highly American-influenced countries (e.g., Israel, Philippines, Marshall Islands).

All the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:31, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek: Thanks for that. I've made it "travelers" in the American content I've edited but I'll leave it "travellers" in documentation. —Justin (koavf)TCM 08:33, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, and thanks for all the great work you're doing!
Best,
Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:34, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Non-existent templates[edit]

Hi there! Hope you are well. In looking through Special:WantedTemplates, I notice that several items are called for by User:Koavf/monobook.js. They show up in the list like this:

  • Template:' + 'DEFAULTSORT:' + lastName + ', ' + firstNames + '
  • Template:' + 'DEFAULTSORT:' + nounPhrase + ', ' + article + '
  • Template:' + name + '
  • Template:Further
  • Template:Futher
  • Template:Lang-' + code + '

Obviously these mostly don't and won't exist. Would it be too much to ask you to either remove these or comment them out of the code so that they stop showing up in the list as wanted? Thanks a lot... Texugo (talk) 15:07, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

@Texugo: I don't quite know enough about this to edit it without screwing up the scripts. —Justin (koavf)TCM 07:23, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
So this is something you are still using? Where did you get the code from? Texugo (talk) 11:08, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
@Texugo: Correct. I got it from en.wp. —Justin (koavf)TCM 16:52, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
OK. I think we have figured out a way to fix the erroneous template calls without affect the js functionality. I have made the change here. It shouldn't affect anything, but if it does, please let me know. Thanks a lot! Texugo (talk) 02:05, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Contribution Survey of WikiTravel and WikiVoyage[edit]

Dear Koavf,

Hello. I am a dedicated Wikipedian and a regular contributor to many other projects of Wikimedia. In addition to this, I also study the contributors and their contributions. In this connection, I have authored the following blogs studying different projects of Wikimedia Foundation :

  1. Wikipedia for Schools Project (posted on Wikimedia Foundation blog)
  2. Samskrita Bharati and Sanskrit Wikipedia: The journey ahead (posted on Wikimedia Foundation blog)
  3. A Focused Approach for Maithili Wikipedia (posted on Wikimedia Foundation blog)
  4. Two Shades of Wikipedia in Punjabi (posted on Wikimedia Foundation blog)
  5. A Survey of Esperanto Wikipedians (posted on Wikimedia Foundation blog)
  6. Wikimedia Projects in Urdu: Unleashing the Latent Potential (posted on Wikimedia Foundation blog)
  7. Hindi Wikipedia - An Encyclopedia Bridging New Bonds of Friendship Across Borders


I have seen the fact that you have created accounts on both Wikivoyage (WMF website) project and WikiTravel (a different entity). I will be glad if you could share your editing experience and observations by answering to the following questions, either here itself, or email me, if you have specified your own email address in the preferences of your WikiVoyage account or post me a message (privately or on my wall) on Facebook with the responses to the questionnaire:

Questionnaire[edit]

1. Please give a brief introduction of yourself.

2. Can you share your blog address?

3. Can you share your Facebook / any other social account particulars?

4. Tell us in brief about your traveling experience (national / international).

5. Reasons for your travels - personal / tourist/ academic / business.

6. Tell us about your editing experience on Wiki Voyage.

7. Tell us about your editing experience on Wiki Travel.

8. Which of these project do you prefer more and why?

9.Do you contribute pictures to Wikimedia Commons (http://www.commons.wikimedia.org) , the database of currently 22,761,448 freely usable media files to which anyone can contribute?

10. Do you also contribute other Wikiquote (http://en.wikiquote.org) and Wiktionary (http://en.wiktionary.org) projects of Wikimedia Foundation?

11. Are a registered contributor on English Wikipedia / any other language Wikipedia?

12. Please feel to add any additional detail of your travel / online editing contributions?

Please feel free to circulate this questionnaire to the friends known to you who maintain accounts on WikiVoyage and WikiTravel. --Hindustanilanguage (talk) 03:25, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

@Hindustanilanguage: I'd be happy to help. As an aside, Wikitravel is only capitalized "Wikitravel", not with internal caps/CamelCase.
  1. I'm Justin Anthony Knapp, a Wikimedian from Indianapolis, Indiana, United States.
  2. I do not have a blog
  3. You can find my Web presence on w:User:Koavf
  4. I've been around the States some--visited about half of the nation. I have usually traveled by bus but I've flown several times or driven as well. I've been to Chicago about a dozen times, Atlanta about 10 times, California five, the District twice, Pennsylvania once, and New York City once. While I was there, I also went to the United Nations building, which is extra-territorial.
  5. Always for fun: to visit friends, to give a speech at the UN, and to go to a Wikimania conference.
  6. I started editing Wikivoyage as such when it migrated to being a WMF project. My main interest is in updating the article on my home city of Indianapolis although I have edited a lot of content around here.
  7. I got started on Wikitravel in 2005/2006 but never edited much there. In early 2014, I requested to be an admin to clean up spam, which I do regularly. I occasionally add content there but I always also add it to Wikivoyage as well.
  8. Wikivoyage. It is a free-er project and it has technical and aesthetic features that I prefer (like custom banners and OSM slippy map integration).
  9. I have added a couple dozen pieces of media to Commons.
  10. I have started a couple of Wikiquote articles and a few Wiktionary entries. I have edited both of those projects in the past few days.
  11. I have contributed something to virtually all of the Wikipedias. I am most active on en.wp, es.wp, and simple.wp.
  12. I like to connect online communities and help where I can. In 2014, I've made it a point to edit more in other WMF projects and beyond (such as WikiIndex). —Justin (koavf)TCM 06:16, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

non-breaking spaces[edit]

Hey, appreciate all your edits recently. But I do have to wonder about the addition of non-breaking spaces before emdashes in Wikivoyage:One-liner listings, as you did here. Practically speaking, it's difficult to imagine any browser needing to break a line that close to the left margin, so is the non-breaking space really necessary? Powers (talk) 14:10, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

@LtPowers: I don't know about necessary (as you point out, they are more-or-less at the extreme left) but it can be useful. If you have "Chicago[space character]–" there is no real need for a non-breaking space but if you have "Chicago Highlands Mayor Richard B. Daley Memorial Park and Rodeo[space character]–" then you would want a non-breaking space to ensure that "Rodeo[space]–" are all together. (To use a real-life example, this is relevant for the Minneapolis/St. Paul/Twin Cities line.) —Justin (koavf)TCM 16:20, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
Well, yes, I understand the concept, but even in the case of "The 'Twin Cities'" the likelihood of a break occurring after "Cities" seems extremely small. The available column width would have to be unuseably thin, don't you think? And if by chance the column width was that thin, then the non-breaking space would only make the problem worse, not better, by forcing a longer line. Powers (talk) 17:58, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
@LtPowers: It's really not that unlikely on mobile. In fact, I'd bet that if I pulled up the page on my media phone, it would do exactly that. Non-breaking spaces don't make longer lines (unless the two terms being put together are ridiculously long themselves--and they are not in this case); they make new lines. —Justin (koavf)TCM 18:29, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, yes, I was imprecise in my wording. What I meant was that on a display small enough for this to be an issue, letting the software break the line efficiently may override the need to keep the emdash from appearing alone at the beginning of a line. Powers (talk) 20:15, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
@LtPowers: How browsers behave will vary of course (and it's not impossible that some will ignore  ). It makes sense to me to go with the standard non-breaking space, which was made for instances such as these. —Justin (koavf)TCM 02:54, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
I guess I'm still not seeing the advantage of keeping the emdash with the word before it when the line width is so small. Powers (talk) 11:21, 28 October 2014 (UTC)