Talk:Breweries in Franconia

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Help needed with copy editing and copying/moving (some) listings to city articles[edit]

Swept in from the pub

So User:Benreis has translated a travel topic on Breweries in Franconia - a very worthwhile topic imho and certainly one of the main tourist draws of the region besides delightful old architecture and charming cities and towns.

At any rate, the prose would have to be looked at by someone who's not a German native speaker to fix particularly awkward wordings and some listings would certainly have to be moved or rather copied to corresponding city articles where they already exist.

I will not issue a recommendation either way as to what to do with the redlinks, I will only point out that many of them indeed represent pretty tiny villages. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:43, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

What struck me was that it would be nice to have some information about how to get from one town to the next, even though it isn't an itinerary article. I also didn't like the left-justified images, just due to the habits and customs of this site. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:06, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
I took a stab at a get in and a get around section, but I think some of the background information in other parts of the article should be moved to the understand section and each place should have at least a few words about how to get there (e.g. take the road XYZ from ABC). I think given the topic it would also help to know a rough ballpark figure about public transit (i.e. S-Bahn y/n and rough bus frequencies). @Benreis: what other words would you think should be explained in the "Talk" section? Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:43, 23 February 2017 (UTC)


Country codes[edit]

Please add the +49 country code to all phone numbers (which have to be written without the leading 0) because otherwise the listings display an error code for those logged in users that have the "error highlighter" gadget activated. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:27, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

The international area code parameter doesn't work. We don't have that here and it will display the number without the international prefix (and an error message) Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:32, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Understand section[edit]

I think some of the background on how Bierkeller came to be or the history of certain types of beer in general are best put into its own section labeled "understand" so that we don't necessarily have to rehash it for every village on the list. We could also go into a bit more detail about the brewery crises of the 1970s and '80s and how the breweries of Franconia coped with that (or didn't) and whether or not the future of the average rural brewery looks secure or difficult. Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:16, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Images[edit]

I really appreciate the existence of this article and the work that went into it. However, it is not part of the house style of Wikivoyage to have two rows of images on the left and right sides of the page. Images should not be put onto the left margin in order to fit them in - that's a clear indication of cramming too many images into too small a space. The default justification for images is right. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:08, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Maybe some of the images could be moved around a bit? btw, what do you think of the sections I created? Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:14, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
Agreed that the images should be moved around. I haven't had a chance to read the article in detail, but I think you worked on "Understand", which seems good and instructive to me. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:17, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Information on how to get to listed places[edit]

Given that unlike the German article on which this is based most villages and towns in this article have no coverage outside this article and some likely won't for some time, it'd be great to know how to reach those places. Mentioning something like "bus xyz comes through twice a day, but most people arrive on Bundesstraße ABC by car" can be enough. If there is a train connection, it should absolutely be mentioned as should be popular and high profile biking or hiking trails. I hope at least some of this information is contained in the de-WV "city" articles, but even if those were all created here, it'd be good for people who print out guides to have all info contained in one place Hobbitschuster (talk) 10:04, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

@Benreis: Can you help with this or at least point somewhere, where help could be gotten? Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:47, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
I suggest redirecting the red links to the main town of the local district (Landkreis, Verwaltungsgemeinschaften, Verbandsgemeinde, Kreis) if that page does not exist then create it, listing which towns are in the district and giving some Get in and Get around information. --Traveler100 (talk) 00:42, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
I had a look at some of the articles in de-WV and unfortunately, they are often not clear and detailed enough. Stuff like "a train station exists in x take the bus from there" is often all it says, without mention of which bus line or roughly how often it goes. I also think that having at least some of this information on this page would be good for people who print out guides. At any rate, I can try and look up some information on the VGN website, but the VGN does not cover all the places mentioned here. Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:15, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
The Wikipedia pages German and sometimes English often have useful information. --Traveler100 (talk) 21:10, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
I'm not all that happy with doing it alone... Is there anybody who'd care to join me? Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:30, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
Ok,started with Haßberge, see how that develops, but you are the public transport expert. --Traveler100 (talk) 21:53, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
I'm not sure creating an article on every Landkreis in Germany is the way forward. What I was envisioning was rather something along the lines "To get to Hurgschburgschl take bus 345 from Bramftltrampftl which is served by hourly Regionalbahn trains" mentioned in this article. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:55, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
Agree not for every Landkreis but if there is no town article in the area, (there are some real gaps here) and not clear dominate town then it is a better solution than lots of small town articles. And I think this page should stay a Travel Topic and not some convoluted Itinerary. --Traveler100 (talk) 22:12, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
I pick that as the difficult example, others are more clearly towns that should have articles, like Bad Kissingen, Schweinfurt, Lohr am Main. --Traveler100 (talk) 22:17, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
Note that those boundaries also shift quite frequently with consolidation the overwhelming long term trend
I added an image of the roughly 294 Landkreise (not counting kreisfreie Städte marked in yellow on that map) to show just how daunting a task it would be to have an article on every single Landkreis. That said, it may make sense as an approach for some destinations. I still think that we could mention if a place is served by rail or only buses and if the latter what the bus line is. Given that most but not all of the places covered in this article are part of VGN it might also make sense to mention specifically if a place isn't VGN. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:12, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

consolidation the overwhelming long term trend]]

Again you ask for help but do not like it and want to take one exception as some sort of policy. Most places can be redirected to a largish town in the area, but occasionally there is no one dominate town in an area. I give up, every little conversation just ends up being some long drawn out discussion on taking something to its limit. --Traveler100 (talk) 01:29, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Franconian Lake District[edit]

So do we create pages for Spalt and Gunzenhausen or just redirects to the park article and add any listings there? --Traveler100 (talk) 01:19, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

I'd tend towards subsuming those places there and splitting them off if and when necessary. By the way, is it a problem when some places are left "uncovered" by this de facto new level below Middle, Upper and Lower Franconia or would it only be a problem if there were overlap? Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:47, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Number 99[edit]

Why do we have the number 99 multiple, there are no three-digit numbers? -- Benreis (talk) 18:47, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

This is a known issue, whoever wrote the code way back when could not conceive of an article accumulating more than 99 listings of a single type (which - I think - is a fair assumption for destination articles). Have a look at Roman Empire to see one possible approach. I would also like a response to the question I raised above. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:04, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

To Guide and FTT[edit]

So we have an overall dearth of suitable FTT candidates and this article already contains a lot of information. Is there a conceivable path for getting this to guide and FTT some time in the foreseeable future? If so, what are the biggest issues? I presume the following are included:

  1. Language issues
  2. How to get from A to B needs to be spelled out in more detail
  3. What to do about the redlinks

Are there others? Please feel free to add to the list. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:45, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

The counter trick as seen on Roman Empire[edit]

So apparently you can avoid the invasion of the 99s by adding a counter parameter as seen in Roman Empire. Is there any way to do this other than tediously by hand? Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:46, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

I'm wondering if everything after the 90th or so should be {{listing}} or some other marker instead of {{drink}}, so as to provide another 1-99 range from which to set markers onto the map. K7L (talk) 03:17, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
When you edit a section on the right above the text input area is an icon with search and replace functions. Have created a counter for each region but still does not totally solve. --Traveler100 (talk) 05:31, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
Thank you. We'll see what to do about the rest. Hobbitschuster (talk) 09:57, 12 April 2017 (UTC)