Talk:Hospitality exchange/Wikitravellers in Hospitality Club

This page was formerly Project:Wikivoyagers in Hospitality Club. It was moved here by (WT-en) Evan based on a discussion on Project:votes for deletion.

Should this page be in the Wikivoyage namespace? It is dealing with project memberships and their relationships to other travel projects, not really a travel topic. -- (WT-en) Huttite 08:41, 8 Jun 2004 (EDT)

I agree, and I moved the page. --(WT-en) Evan 10:25, 8 Jun 2004 (EDT)

Um, I think this is a Project:Slippery slopes -- are we going to have a Wikivoyagers in AAA (American Auto Assoc.) or Wikivoyagers in Star Alliance (an airline club). This just doesn't seem helpful to our goals. (WT-en) Majnoona 10:39, 8 Jun 2004 (EDT)

OK, let's put it on Project:votes for deletion. --(WT-en) Evan 12:31, 8 Jun 2004 (EDT)

So, on second thought, I don't see a big problem with having lists of Wikivoyagers by affiliation in the Wikivoyage: namespace. After all, we do have a Project:list of Wikivoyagers by location. If it incents people in other groups to work on Wikivoyage, well, heck, why not?

I think that information is probably more suitable for User: pages, but I can't see a real big problem with having these lists outside the main namespace. --(WT-en) Evan 12:58, 8 Jun 2004 (EDT)

I disagree. This isn't useful, it's just a list-for-lists-sake. Who would use this? I'm going to add my vote for deletion. (WT-en) Majnoona 14:44, 9 Jun 2004 (EDT)

Vote against deletion. As in any larger group, people like to group together by interests. And there will be Wikivoyageers who come to this page and say: hey, cool, he is a HC member also, let's go visit him. If this only happens once, this page has already served it's purpose. What is so annoying about it that you would spend so much time on such a little detail of your site?(WT-en) Veit 17:47, 9 Jun 2004 (EDT)

I also vote against deletion, but am quite late doing so... Thus I vote pro-putting-back-this-deleted-page.
"Why whould _I_ use this" is not the same as "Why would someone use this". Many Hospitality Club people have met in real life, and will meet in real life. The list of Wikivoyagers by location doesn't directly offer hospitality, the list of HC members does. (WT-en) Guaka 08:26, 22 Jun 2004 (EDT)

So, first of all, this kind of note goes on Project:votes for deletion, not here.

Second, it's perfectly fine for people to put links to their Hospitality Club profile on their user page. The User pages are where we put personal information like this.

Third, I guess if it's really necessary to have a list of Wikivoyagers in Hospitality Club, there should probably be some room on http://www.hospitalityclub.org/ to put it. We had a vote to delete the page here, and it went through. --(WT-en) Evan 11:07, 22 Jun 2004 (EDT)

Yeah, but I was too late for that...

I'm sorry about that. Let's try and figure out a good method for undeleting pages when there's a good argument to bring them back. I'll try to start a discussion on Project:deletion policy.

But that doesn't make it very easy to find HC'ers here. If there were an article Hospitality Club one could try to see which pages linked there. But an article about HC wasn't supposed to be in a travel guide...

But what's the point of that? Why does finding HC members on Wikivoyage help us make a better travel guide?

It didn't say it's necessary. I just think it's good to have. HC is no wiki, and it would take a lot of developer time in order to create a special option for it, whereas it would be really easy to have a list here...
I don't think the current VfD process is very fair.
I don't want to offend, but I need to get this of my chest: Could you be less bureaucratic? You're scaring away users of good will... (WT-en) Guaka 12:48, 22 Jun 2004 (EDT)

I noted your discussion on the VfD process on the deletion policy talk page. Let's see if we can improve so everyone feels more comfortable with it.

As for my personal behavior: I try to do what's right for this project; I'm always open to feedback as to how to get this done. Feel free to make suggestions on my talk page, or send me an email through the email system or at evan@wikivoyage.org if you'd rather keep the discussion private. --(WT-en) Evan 14:23, 22 Jun 2004 (EDT)

Why it helps? It's hard to give a precise reason, but my intuition tells me that HC members tend to meet in real life, that meeting in real life is much stronger than writing a few lines on a wiki! And that writing a few lines on wiki to someone you have met is a totally different experience! It would also be practical meeting someone at HC itself, since there is a spam filter on HC, so it can take some time before a message is read by a member. On Wikivoyage it is easier to contact someone, and it is easier to note who was active recently. When looking for a place, I would first check here, and then later on HC... (WT-en) Guaka 17:31, 22 Jun 2004 (EDT)

What you're talking about is building a travel community, which is a great and noble goal, but not what we're doing here. There are other place for community-building, travelogues, photo collages, etc etc, but we are producing a guide. Focusing on the users/contributors beyond the user pages is a serious slippery slope. Next we'll have Wikivoyagers in AAA, Wikivoyager list of places they've been, Wikivoyagers by eye color. In a published travel guide (think LP if you must) the authors/contributors get a paragraph bio at best. Here you have a whole user page to mention your personal connections with the travel community, the VW bus community, or what have you. The fact that it would be "hard" for HC to have a list there really isn't an issue. We're not Friendster, we're Wikivoyage. (WT-en) Majnoona 20:38, 22 Jun 2004 (EDT)

Sorry, but you're seriously missing my point. First of all, pages in the Wikivoyage namespace won't be published, they are some kind of meta pages. I can't see the point of Project:Wikivoyager list of places they've been and I don't know what AAA is. I won't say more on your mentioning of eye color than this. It's funny you mention LP, since behind the scenes of LP there is a complete network of people who have met in real life. We don't have such a network, or money to pay to people to meet eachother. We can leave room for some pages that facilitate this kind of meeting. (WT-en) Guaka 21:10, 22 Jun 2004 (EDT)

I dont think I am. The pages in the wikivoyage namespace exist to support the creation of the guide. I was using silly examples of where this 'meta pages for the travel communtity' could lead, but more realistically should there be a Wikivoyagers on Bootsnall, Wikivoyagers on Thorn Tree, Wikivoyagers on TravelMag-- I could go on, but you get the point. I love the idea of Wikivoyagers meeting in real life-- we've organized a few meet ups so far: on www.meetup.com and on user pages. It's really hard for a wiki to stay focused, user and goal oriented, and not devolve into a discussion group or individual-centric blog, that's why there is so much concern over this. (WT-en) Majnoona 16:43, 23 Jun 2004 (EDT)

Hey! So what if we made a Wikivoyage Tribe on http://tribe.net for all the community/social aspects we want to develop? Or we could do a yahoo group, or whatever people want. How does that sound? There's also the mailing list and IRC channel as well... (WT-en) Majnoona 16:43, 23 Jun 2004 (EDT)

PS-- I wasn't actually being to out-there when I gave those Wikivoyager list examples: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedians#Other_listings, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedians_by_pet

I've met Wikipedians just by staying on the Wikipedia. IRC, mailinglists and .com's are not my thing. Sometimes I use these channels or tools, but only as a last resort. (WT-en) Guaka 05:55, 24 Jun 2004 (EDT)