Talk:Booterstown
Latest comment: 2 years ago by Pashley in topic Move to Booterstown (or Blackrock)
Comments[edit]
I know that its not standard practice to create a page for a university campus, but I feel that there is merit for having this page. UCD is a destination for thousands of visitors every year, including prospective students, international students, and attendees of many conferences during the summer. While much of the information is already available online, it is scattered throughout various sections of the university website and external websites, and is not always up to date, so I believe this page could be a very valuable resource for visitors, as well as for students and staff. Royboymaps (talk) 00:28, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
- No, and in fact, I think I can confidently say that it's never done. I see that this university is in the town of Belfield. This article should be renamed "Belfield". Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:49, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
- Or should consider expanding into an article about the area around Dundrum and maybe some individual entries moved to Dún Laoghaire. --Traveler100 (talk) 05:28, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
- Also are all the facilities mentioned open and useable by the general public or do you need a student or staff ID to use them? My experience with Universities varies greatly, some refectories/cafeteria/shops are open to all who walk in and accept cash other only usable if you have that University's smart-card (thus must be staff or student member). Some libraries and other building doors are controlled by ID card others open for all to walk in. --Traveler100 (talk) 05:39, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
- I thought this would be a little controversial alright! I had thought about naming it "Belfield" instead, but felt that "University College Dublin" was more appropriate as it is the most commonly used name, and the term "Belfield" would particularly not be known by any international visitors. Belfield is not actually a town, its the name of a townland which existed before the university was built, although the campus now covers a much larger area. It would also not be considered a part of Dundrum, Dún Laoghaire or any other suburb, it is seen as a standalone university campus nestled between different suburbs. The campus is completely open and all restaurants/cafes/shops are open to the general public. The libraries are the only places where ID card is required to enter, visitors are still allowed but they make it difficult. I plan to develop this article more over the next few weeks. Royboymaps (talk) 11:02, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
- It is an interesting idea having articles on Universities that are self-contained (campus rather then in cities), as you say many people visit so information is useful to travellers. However it probably does not pass the current guidelines on what makes an article in that the accommodation is not available to the general public (except maybe when not term time some may be let out). Creating a new type of article like we did with airports is worth a discussion but I am not sure there would be enough input from other contributors to create a reasonable number of articles of this type. Still think best to restructure this as an article about the suburbs south of Dublin. --Traveler100 (talk) 12:47, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
- I thought this would be a little controversial alright! I had thought about naming it "Belfield" instead, but felt that "University College Dublin" was more appropriate as it is the most commonly used name, and the term "Belfield" would particularly not be known by any international visitors. Belfield is not actually a town, its the name of a townland which existed before the university was built, although the campus now covers a much larger area. It would also not be considered a part of Dundrum, Dún Laoghaire or any other suburb, it is seen as a standalone university campus nestled between different suburbs. The campus is completely open and all restaurants/cafes/shops are open to the general public. The libraries are the only places where ID card is required to enter, visitors are still allowed but they make it difficult. I plan to develop this article more over the next few weeks. Royboymaps (talk) 11:02, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
- Any additional thoughts? It's quite unusual to see an article about a university on this site. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:31, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
- If no one's interested in actually doing the work of converting this into a standard destination article about the southern suburbs of Dublin, as suggested above, then we need to just redirect it. Either way, the article can't remain as is. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:15, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
- Sorry, I shouldn't really have started this article and left it unfinished for so long. I've been working on additional material for the See and Do sections and should be ready to add it next week. The reason I started this article was to try and provide useful and interesting information for visitors to the campus, including new students, international students, and people attending conferences and events such as open days. I feel that restructuring it as an article on the suburbs south of Dublin wouldn't fulfil that purpose, and it is also unlikely that many of the listings within the campus would be of interest to people visiting adjacent suburbs. If the consensus is that it cannot remain as it is, then I would suggest renaming it to “Belfield”, which is the area that the campus is located in. Today, the university campus covers the whole of Belfield, so the terms are really interchangeable, and the content could more or less remain the same. The main difference is that the focus would be on the “area” of Belfield rather than the “university” of UCD. While my preference would be to keep the article as it is, I recognise that refocusing it on the area rather than the university would be more consistent with the structures of Wikivoyage. And possibly at some point in the future a new article type may be created for university campuses and the article could be renamed back then. I think that there is certainly justification for keeping this article though. It is a destination, it does receive a lot of travellers (albeit of a specific type), you can sleep there (maybe not the general public, but the specific types of traveller who would be visiting can, i.e. students and conference attendants), and you can eat, drink, buy, see and do things there. It might be unusual, but no destination is the same. Royboymaps (talk) 19:57, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
- If this has any chance of surviving then it should be clear that the listing are of facilities any member of the public can use without an invite or special status. My experience of Universities are mixed on that subject, some you can walk into the restaurant or coffee shop and they will take serve and take any-ones cash (often the case in Germany), others you need to use a student or member of staff id card (typical in the USA). Some will let anyone read in the library others you cannot get in the door. I do not think articles on places people cannot visit without special permission is a good idea. Would be like writing articles on the restaurants in General Motors Detroit site or the coffee shops around the EU government office in Brussels, or the bars around the Palace of Westminster in London. All of which are large enough to make an article with listings but non usable unless you are an employee, member or an invited guest. We have articles on closed establishments such as Disney Land but these are open to anyone who pays the entrance fee.--Traveler100 (talk) 21:08, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
- The campus is entirely open, there are no gates into it and all of the main buildings are publicly accessible. Any member of the public is free to walk into and use any of the restaurants, cafe's, shops or bar, and there are also some small museums and collections which are open to the public too. I will make this clear within the article when editing it next week. The only exception is the main library. The smaller libraries have open public access but the main library is the only building which requires an ID card. Public access is allowed, but not easily, and again I will make this clear within the article. Royboymaps (talk) 22:58, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
- I put down a map marker but can you confirm that UCD should be regarded as "Is-part-of" County Dublin rather than City of? Grahamsands (talk) 15:03, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
- The campus is entirely open, there are no gates into it and all of the main buildings are publicly accessible. Any member of the public is free to walk into and use any of the restaurants, cafe's, shops or bar, and there are also some small museums and collections which are open to the public too. I will make this clear within the article when editing it next week. The only exception is the main library. The smaller libraries have open public access but the main library is the only building which requires an ID card. Public access is allowed, but not easily, and again I will make this clear within the article. Royboymaps (talk) 22:58, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
- If this has any chance of surviving then it should be clear that the listing are of facilities any member of the public can use without an invite or special status. My experience of Universities are mixed on that subject, some you can walk into the restaurant or coffee shop and they will take serve and take any-ones cash (often the case in Germany), others you need to use a student or member of staff id card (typical in the USA). Some will let anyone read in the library others you cannot get in the door. I do not think articles on places people cannot visit without special permission is a good idea. Would be like writing articles on the restaurants in General Motors Detroit site or the coffee shops around the EU government office in Brussels, or the bars around the Palace of Westminster in London. All of which are large enough to make an article with listings but non usable unless you are an employee, member or an invited guest. We have articles on closed establishments such as Disney Land but these are open to anyone who pays the entrance fee.--Traveler100 (talk) 21:08, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
- Sorry, I shouldn't really have started this article and left it unfinished for so long. I've been working on additional material for the See and Do sections and should be ready to add it next week. The reason I started this article was to try and provide useful and interesting information for visitors to the campus, including new students, international students, and people attending conferences and events such as open days. I feel that restructuring it as an article on the suburbs south of Dublin wouldn't fulfil that purpose, and it is also unlikely that many of the listings within the campus would be of interest to people visiting adjacent suburbs. If the consensus is that it cannot remain as it is, then I would suggest renaming it to “Belfield”, which is the area that the campus is located in. Today, the university campus covers the whole of Belfield, so the terms are really interchangeable, and the content could more or less remain the same. The main difference is that the focus would be on the “area” of Belfield rather than the “university” of UCD. While my preference would be to keep the article as it is, I recognise that refocusing it on the area rather than the university would be more consistent with the structures of Wikivoyage. And possibly at some point in the future a new article type may be created for university campuses and the article could be renamed back then. I think that there is certainly justification for keeping this article though. It is a destination, it does receive a lot of travellers (albeit of a specific type), you can sleep there (maybe not the general public, but the specific types of traveller who would be visiting can, i.e. students and conference attendants), and you can eat, drink, buy, see and do things there. It might be unusual, but no destination is the same. Royboymaps (talk) 19:57, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
(Two years later) Dublin has been nominated for DotM, but this UCD sub-page remains its most problematic feature, as the issues above are unresolved. Can you visit the Veterinary Centre without being a sick pig, and if so, why? The Classics Museum sounds interesting but what prior palaver is involved? The multiple cafes and transport options are irrelevant to the general visitor unless there's a reason to come. Grahamsands (talk) 11:22, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
- Unless anybody has better ideas, I think the first stage is to trim the article to just have stuff that would interest somebody who only visted for 1-2 days. If I get some time in the next few days, I can start on this. When we see what is left - Classics Museum and woodland walks?, we can look at renaming or merging. AlasdairW (talk) 21:19, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
Move to Booterstown (or Blackrock)[edit]
I suggest that this page is moved to Booterstown or Blackrock. I don't have a strong preference for which nearby coastal ex-urb name is used. There are other Blackrocks, but I expect that Booterstown is unique. The university would then be one long listing in the article - some visitors might be interested in the museum (which I assume is normally open occasionally) or in the walks around the campus. Other visitors might just be looking for a quiet base to explore Dublin from - take the kids to the beach in the morning then explore the city in the afternoon. AlasdairW (talk) 18:30, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
- Agree. This has to be one of the few articles about unis I've seen on voy and renaming seems the most viable option to me. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:56, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
- There is already a fair bit of non-UCD content, so I say 'yea'. Putting UCD See listings in a subsection of See would work better that making it one See listing, I think. Ground Zero (talk) 00:27, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
- Dumaguete#See is a different situation -- there are several unis including two in the downtown area -- but it might be a useful example of how to handle multiple listings on a campus. Pashley (talk) 14:44, 14 January 2022 (UTC)