Talk:Hungary/Archive 2006-2011

Could anyone explain to me why the title is changed to Hungry rapist? Or is it simply vandalism?

Regions

I would like to contribute to this article, having spent some time in Hungary. Some of my favorite places I visited (the Puszta, Koszeg, Sarvar, Fertod, etc.) do not have pages associated with them, though, and the country is not yet broken into regions. I'm not sure the best way to divide, any ideas?

I'm sure you know the country better than most of us, so throw out some of your ideas and we'll start from there! The easiest split would be to ape Wikipedia, but does that make sense for the traveller? Eg. splitting Lake Balaton in three is kinda awkward. (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:58, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

The regions mentioned in the Wikipedia article have only statistical and a very-very few administrative role. Touristic regions can be found on Hungary.com or in the Hungarian Wikivoyage article. I find this split quite usable. (WT-en) Strapontin 12:13, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

That looks great. How would you translate the region names used in the Hungarian WT into English? - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 15:26, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

I would translate them as follows:

• Central Hungary
  • Budapest
  • Pest county (surroundings)
• Northern Hungary
• Great Plain
  • Northern Great Plain
  • Southern Great Plain
  • Lake Tisza
• Transdanubia (or Pannonia)
  • Western Transdanubia
  • Southern Transdanubia
  • Central Transdanubia
• Lake Balaton

(WT-en) Strapontin 16:02, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

Plunge forward! Creating regions is long overdue, but I don't know the country nearly well enough to do it. (WT-en) Jpatokal 09:06, 18 July 2007 (EDT)

ToDo

• Sleep: describe castle hotels types of accommodation (see Hungary official site as a starting point for research, auto-translated from Russian to English--gives many links to specific castle-based hotels) --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 10:07, 27 January 2007 (EST)
• Do: give some overview of Baths tradition, rituals and typical facilities; probably detail how is it different/unique compared to spas in different parts of the world. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 04:12, 11 February 2007 (EST)

Unicum

How is Unicum supposed to be drunk? When I was there, we bought some and it was...well...I don't want to offend anyone, but I think I'd have better luck downing a shot of bleach. Is it just my British taste buds unable to take it 'like a man'? lol. Interested to see what other people say! -(WT-en) Lionfish 15:48, 8 Mar 2005 (GMT)

I believe the correct Hungarian style is to pour a shot for the tourist, watch from the sidelines, and snicker when they try to get it down. They don't drink it themselves. (Seriously!) Now, a bottle of St. Hubertus or a decent barackpalinka, on the other hand... (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:09, 8 Mar 2005 (EST)

Lol. I thought that might be the case. lol. Also I suspect the drink only still gets bought because of its name. Not that I'd be so shallow or childish as to buy a drink just because of that... noo... :P (WT-en) Lionfish 18:03, 8 Mar 2005 (GMT)

Hungarians do indeed consume Unicum. They are, after all, a people who compliment their breakfast with a shot of palinka. While I do not care to drink it socially, my Hungarian family has administered Unicum to me as cold medicine since I was a child.

Man, you did not seriously believe the story of palinka for breakfast, did you? It's rather a funny legend to demonstrate that hungarians tend to drink a lot. However, you're true about Unicum being used as medicine for digestive problems: it consists of several herbs and is really efficient. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 138.195.152.134 (talk • contribs)

Hm, coming from Hungary, I have to comment, that not drinkers, but people doing heavy jobs (in the fields, mines, etc.) did indeed start their day with a "shot". Grandfathers who never bothered (nor could afford) coffee, but preserved their condition through very moderate, but regular "health preservation" measures. The story of pálinka as a breakfast "escort" is no legend at all. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 80.98.37.84 (talk • contribs)

I haven't ever seen any pálinka made from corn, although I guess it is possible. It is much more likely to be made from fruit: either from a single fruit such as pear, apricot or plum being the most common types. You will also see "pálinka" made from a mixture of these fruits and this is known as "vegyes". Pálinka is a very social drink: just as the English drink tea, the Hungarians, especially in rural areas, will offer pálinka to guests upon arrival. Home-made "pálinka" is known as "hazipálinka" and is nectar from the Gods. My understanding is that current EU legislation has protected the term "pálinka" in the same way as "camerbert" or "champagne" has been protected. Any drink labelled as "pálinka" must be made from fruit, rather than falvoured from "essence" as is common in the cheaper varieties. To the true Hungarian, "pálinka" is a serious drink worthy of respect and veneration as a cultural tradition.

Unicum has nothing to do with pálinka. It is as stated, a strong digestif, made from a secret recipe and while uniquely Hungarian to confuse it with "pálinka" is a mistake.

Extlinks

I removed these: More cities and regions, More destinations. --(WT-en) Evan 09:27, 14 December 2006 (EST)

usual length of stay without additional permit

The usual length of stay is 30 days without any additional permit.

Could anyone clarify this in Get In section? Is it "minimal period for validity of visa" for some countries? Then are we sure that this applies to the whole list "US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand"? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 02:04, 11 January 2007 (EST)

opportunities to rent a plane

In Get around:By plane we have now:

However there are many opportunities for people with a valid pilot's licence to rent a plane and explore by air.

Do we have any specifics on this? Rental providers? Contacts? Airports? Anything? Without that it's of too little help, in my opinion. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 18:32, 11 January 2007 (EST)

Get around by car: unclear fragments

Could someone please explain / detail, what does each of these fragments in Get around:By car mean?

Usually you can travel by using a map and the road signs.

Highways are not free, but there are no other toll roads or tunnels.

How can we make them more easily understood by readers with non-native English? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 18:44, 11 January 2007 (EST)

espresso will buy hours

In Drink:Coffee:

The coffee is strong and espresso-based...

What kind of cafes does this piece applies to? It's not meant to be about absolutely every place, is it?

...and one drink will buy you hours of time at the table.

How was this discovered? Again, to what kinds of cafe this applies? I'm sure not to every, at least not to a really touristy / just crowded place. Can we give any specifics on this?

--(WT-en) DenisYurkin 19:20, 11 January 2007 (EST)

More about Drink:Coffee...

I edited the bit about "long" coffee to give a slightly fuller explanation. The previous version refered to the long, American style coffee. "Long" is a direct translation of what the Hungarians call it, but this is not a typical description at least in American English. Most Americans I know would be mystified by what a "long" coffee might be.

Also, I agree completely with the one drink will buy you hours formulation above. General practice is, once you have the table, you pretty much own it until you decide to leave, and you won't be chased out, whether at a cafe or full restaurant -- not even at touristy/crowded places.

-- (WT-en) MujerMaravilla 06:19, 6 March 2007 (EST)

That's great, thanks for clarification. Could you write about it in more detail in the Coffee section? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 06:54, 6 March 2007 (EST)

I do know that the term "long black" is used in Australia to describe the Americano-style coffee. I've never heard it in other English speaking countries. 82.113.178.1 05:59, 13 July 2007 (EDT)

tea with milk

In Drink:Tea we had this piece:

Be aware though that tea is not drunk with milk in Hungary and asking for it will earn you some surprised looks.

This doesn't match my experience in hotels and tourist-oriented cafes, so we need a clarification where this can be really experienced. Before we have some details, I better remove this piece as misleading. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 19:24, 11 January 2007 (EST)

the best teas are herbal

The best teas to go for are the herbal and fruit varieties.

What does the best here means? How herbal/fruit teas in Hungary are different from ones in other countries? Are there any special brands, or is it resulted from fresh air (which can certainly affect feelings from the tea), or is there any tradition for home-made herbal/fruit varieties? This or that way, let's specify what do we mean by this. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 19:27, 11 January 2007 (EST)

This probably refers to tesanes or infusions. I never heard these being sold at coffees. I usually bought it in the Herbária, or herbal drug store. These teas are referred to as gyógytea or "medicinal tea". The two most known are chamomile and rose-hip, but garlic, coriander, anise, dandelion and pretty much anything that grows can end up as a herbal remedy and a tea. Never, do I see this in coffees. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 68.83.85.27 (talk • contribs)

I'm not sure how this can be added to Hungary#Tea instead of this piece: "The best teas to go for are the herbal and fruit varieties". Can someone help with this? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 11:06, 30 March 2009 (EDT)

price ranges for accommodation

but the normal rate is 20-22 EURO per person.

What kind of hotels these rates apply to? What regions; high- or low-season? We lived in mid-range hotel in Budapest for ~EUR100, in Eger in apartment for 3..4 persons for ~EUR80. So what is meant by the range 20-22EUR? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 19:32, 11 January 2007 (EST)

One useful accomodation choice has been completely left out: Ibusz offices run a list of Private Hungarian Family accomodation (room); advantage is that it is very cheap and many times they are very friendly and can advise on local sites and customs —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Tamas brummer (talk • contribs)

Don't count on Western European travel times?

The Get Around: By car section writes: Don't count on Western European travel times though: if you travel by normal roads the speed limit is 90 km/h between cities and 50 km/h inside, which slows you to the average around 60km/h. Roads often have high traffic. I think that applies to almost all Western-European countries I've been to. The speed limit on highways is 130km/h, no different than most EU countries either.

I went by bus from Bratislava to Budapest in 2006. As soon as we are in Hungary there's a motorway leading all the way to Budapest. It's quite good, better than the old Prague-Brno motorway. Because the terrein in Hungary is mostly flat, it goes straight 'till the Matra mountains just before Budapest.

I do not know whether there are motorways going farther east and south, but at least, from the western border to Budapest, the communications are quite good.

Joao - Portugal —The preceding comment was added by 89.214.6.167 (talk • contribs)

tipping recommendations

As long as service charge is frequently included in a bill in restaurants and cafes, I left the following fragment:

it's unclear how bad service should be reacted on if you can't regulate tips you leave

meaning that if you receive bad service, there's no good way to 'punish' a waiter. Now after edits by Szutyok, this part is gone. Any idea on what we can recommend to a traveller when a service charge is included and (s)he receives a bad service? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 01:08, 29 January 2007 (EST)

If a service charge is included in the bill, and it is clearly shown on the menu, consider it as part of the price, not a tip. In that case unfortunately you can't do much about it. If it's looks like a decent place and the service was poor, you can try to talk to the manager. If it it not shown on the menu that x% of service charge will be included, than they have no right to charge you with a service charge. If they do, try to contact the National Association for Consumer protection (WT-en) Szutyok 09:24, 29 January 2007 (EST)

In my experience, for most travellers it's most realistic to check it on the bill (typically it's printed as a part of standard footer). I mean, you are right about menu as a formal and bulletproof requirement, but let's also mention something for the rest of us who normally faces service charge as printed in a bill.

Well, if you see it on the bill, then all you can do is check the menu. If they didn't mention there's a service charge, start complaining. They know exactly what they can and cannot do, and they will most likely back off if they see you know your rights. (WT-en) Szutyok 18:01, 29 January 2007 (EST)

As for service charge--so, it should be paid fully regardless of service quality, did I understand you right? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 13:40, 29 January 2007 (EST)

That's correct, service charge has to be paid regardless of service quality if it is clearly printed on the menu. (WT-en) Szutyok 18:01, 29 January 2007 (EST)

Talk

I doubt that anybody speaking Russian will be understood in Hungary. Even if they say a simple здравствуйте. (WT-en) Strapontin 10:08, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

We've experienced it just in January in the many places (as listed in Talk section). I clarified that it only applies to Budapest--as we didn't see it elsewhere. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 14:11, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

knowledge of English and Russian

I disagree with the recent edit and reverted it in the part about English and Russian languages. My original point was--and the edit changes it without providing a reason:

• chances that your Russian will be understood are much fewer than for English
• in Budapest, outside tourist venues only elders (age 45+?) can be expected to understand Russian; younger people typically don't have any knowledge of Russian
• Hungarians are more successful in understanding Russian than in speaking

I invite to discuss the issue first, and then edit the article as we reach consensus. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 01:04, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

Personally I'm quite satisfied with this later edit. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 16:27, 27 November 2007 (EST)

---

I restored a bit of my previous edit, since our historical relations with Austria didn't apport much german knowledge to the hungarians. It was nearly 150 years ago, and even then, one must understand that the two nations remained etnically separated, and only a small part, let's say about the "upper" 3% of hungary had diplomatic or trade relations with austrians, and the other people feared (and actually loathed) them, and didn't speak a word of german. So this thing about hungarians speaking german universally is false. I emphasize it because it's a stereotype, and we shouldn't mislead people on Wikivoyage. Actually if someone finds a statistics of foreign languages spoken in Hungary to contradict/enforce what I say, I would be quite happy. (26march2008)

Car headlights requirement

It is no more a requirement to drive with headlights on during day.

--193.77.6.1 06:52, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

Mineralized waters

Mira and Hunyadi Janos are available in pharmacies BUT they are NOT for everyday consumption!!! Mira is a natural laxative, and IIRC Hunyadi is kind of an acid relief. They should be removed from drinking waters IMO.

Agreed, done. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 11:15, 30 December 2009 (EST)

What's going on with this article lately?

Recently there have been numerous edits to this article from several anonymous users that are often contradictory or of questionable accuracy. Can anyone who knows Hungary review the changes from the month of March and either revert or verify that everything is acceptable? Or could the anonymous users provide some guidance as to what's going on? -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 16:01, 16 March 2011 (EDT)

The following response moved from User talk:(WT-en) Wrh2 so that anyone else who is wondering about this article can refer to this message. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 13:58, 18 March 2011 (EDT)

Hi! The edits began on 5 March, some days before the anniversary of the Hungarian Revolution of March 15 1848. Apparently, nationalists flooded the page and made various politically biased and racist "contributions" to the page.

The "contributions" included:

-Glorifying the dying and backwards Austria-Hungary of the early 20th century as a "powerful nation"

-Doubting the scientific evidence for the Finno-Ugric relationship of the Hungarian language

-Inserting some racist remarks about Roma and heavily generalizing Roma behavior

-Deleting the important remark that Hungarians might mistake South American and Indian travelers as local Roma and discriminate them, which is sadly true

-Inserting a Hungarian joke graffiti about the Hungarian State Railways (MÁV)

-Proclaiming that the Communist period began in 1945. While Hungary was a member of the East Block since 1945, it was still democratic until 1949, that's when Communist dictatorship began

I corrected these misinformations as best as I can. Keep your eyes peeled for the article though, it looks like many nationalists will edit it since we are in March when nationalist behavior is high in Hungary because of the 1848 revolution's anniversary.

(WT-en) Gineer 13:48, 18 March 2011 (EDT) (talk)

Thanks for the cleanups and the explanation - it's been bizarre to see some of the recent changes, so it's good to have some understanding of what's going on. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 14:02, 18 March 2011 (EDT)

Racism against Roma

Keep your eyes peeled for random edits in the "Stay Safe" section. Apparently, someone was having fun by making racist remarks about Roma and imitating their stereotypical dialect which is a bit different than standard Hungarian. (WT-en) Gineer (talk) 10:53, 18 March 2011 (EDT)

The edit war of the far-right vandals

In the last few days far-right nationalist vandals have flooded this page and always inserted racist comments about Roma, the page had to reverted three times this day, twice be me, once by someone else because of them. (WT-en) Gineer 17:36, 20 March 2011 (EDT) (talk)

Visa-free work period for citizens of Antigua and Barbuda

In case anyone wants to know the source of my edits to include information about the visa exemption for 'Annex II' nationals to work during their 90 day visa-free entry, see this European Union document - [1]. (WT-en) Yeahtravel 16:58, 6 June 2011 (EDT)

Purchasing train ticket online guide

Hungarian Railways have recently extended their e-ticketing to some international relations too. I find it very useful for my train trips to Balkan, because almost always I need to change in Budapest, and the tickets to Budapest and from Budapest further are much more cheaper than direct tickets to Romania, former Yugoslavia etc. However, the online booking system remains in Hungarian only and the English guide here doesn't provide an easy survey. I can translate the official guide at [2], but I don't know whether such a specific article suits to Wikivoyage. Your opinions? (WT-en) Robert-Antonio 07:04, 12 August 2011 (EDT)