Wikivoyage:Destination of the month candidates

Here we determine which articles are featured on the Main Page as Destination of the month (Dotm), Off the Beaten Path (OTBP) and Featured travel topics (FTT).

Nominate

You can nominate any article you would like to see featured. Any destination, region, itinerary or event that passes the "What is an article?" test is eligible for nomination.

However, before nominating, please check that the article follows these basic guidelines:

• The nominated article should have an article status of guide or star. This includes having at least one good picture, and listings/headers/etc. that match our manual of style.
• The nominated article must not have been featured previously.
  • See Previous Destinations of the month, Previously Off the beaten path, and Previous Featured travel topics to check.
• If the article has been nominated previously but failed, any objections should be addressed before nominating it again.
  • See Slush pile to check.
  • If you think a once-slushed destination is now ready to go, list it as new, but with a pointer to the slush pile entry.

Well-known and/or popular destinations should be nominated as Destination of the Month, while more obscure destinations should be nominated for Off the Beaten Path. Travel topics, phrasebooks, itineraries and other articles should be nominated for Featured Travel Topic. Where applicable, you should propose a good time to visit the destination as a month to be featured.

The basic format of a nomination is as follows:

{{DotmNomination
| place=Destination
| status=Guide
| time=March-June
| comment=Great article and it's just luvvly-jubbly in the springtime.
| nominatedBy=~~~~
| DotMImage=[[Image:Bogota cityscape 3.jpg|none|200px|link=Destination]]
| DotMBlurb= '''[[Destination]]''' is a place of contrasts, and as such it...
}}

Add a nomination to the end of the appropriate section.

Discuss

You can comment on any nomination based on timeliness and adherence to the criteria above, just add a bullet point (*) and your signed opinion.

===[[Destination]]===
Great article and it's just luvvly-jubbly in the springtime. TravelNut 25:25, 31 Feb 2525 (EDT)
* Looks nice, but shouldn't the Do section contain more than just quilting contests? ~~~~

Please note that the following are not considered valid reasons to oppose a nomination:

• "I don't like it." All objections have to be based on the guidelines above: poor formatting, missing information, etc. Personal opinions, dislikes, etc. do not count.
• "Wrong time of year." Articles are supported or opposed based on their content. Timing can be worked out later.
• "Wrong type of place." Articles are supported or opposed based on their content. Whether it's DoTM or OtBP can be worked out later.

Select

If an article gets several comments in favor and none against for a week or so, it's eligible to be placed in an appropriate time-slot in the Upcoming queue. If the objections are relatively minor and are being worked on, add them to the Upcoming queue tentatively (add a question mark "?" after the article). Feel free to move the queue around or swap articles if it makes sense. If a nomination clearly does not make the grade and if the objections are not easily fixable, they go into the Slush pile

Once a nomination has been scheduled, an appropriate banner image and text blurb must be selected. Go to Wikivoyage:Destination of the month candidates/Banners to start that discussion.

Archive

Discussions for previously selected destinations are kept in the Archive.

Upcoming

Schedule

The following queue should contain about six months' worth of upcoming destinations. Note that new DotMs are rotated in on the 1st of each month, OtBPs on the 11th and travel topics on the 21st.

Month	DotM	OtBP	FTT
May 2013	Rotterdam	Nevyansk	Driving in Australia
June 2013	Pittsburgh	Ölgii - pending minor formatting fixes	Across Canada by train
July 2013	?	Childs	?
August 2013	?	La Macarena	Chicago skyline guide
September 2013	Madison? - pending decision on whether to feature as DotM or OtBP	Madison? - pending decision on whether to feature as DotM or OtBP	?
October 2013	Oakland - pending consensus to support	Musandam Peninsula	?
November 2013	Xiamen - pending minor fixes	Churchill	?

These are not cast in stone, and the order can be changed if, for example, an excellent guide for a timely event is found. Whenever a guide becomes a current feature, it should be removed from the list, the discussion archived, and a new month added to the end of the queue. Alternatives are OK; the whole point is to enable some discussion as needed.

Next change

Decisions regarding which images to use as the banners are made here.

The section below provides an opportunity to see what the upcoming featured articles will look like on the Main Page using the banners that are currently most popular on the above page.

Pittsburgh

Destination of the Month

Pennsylvania's second-largest city transcends its grubby steel-town reputation with cultural institutions, fine dining, and exciting professional sports—all at surprisingly affordable prices.

Destination of the Month

Pittsburgh

Pennsylvania's second-largest city transcends its grubby steel-town reputation with cultural institutions, fine dining, and exciting professional sports—all at surprisingly affordable prices.

Banner for Ölgii goes here

Driving in Australia

Featured travel topic

An experience to be savoured, driving is a great way—and often the only way—to experience the wide-open spaces and magnificent natural scenery of Australia.

Featured travel topic

Driving in Australia

An experience to be savoured, driving is a great way—and often the only way—to experience the wide-open spaces and magnificent natural scenery of Australia.

Updating

On the date of the scheduled change, the DotM, OtBP, or FTT should be changed as close to midnight UTC as possible. When the featured page is changed, please follow the following procedures to do so and archive content to the appropriate pages. At each stage, please double-check that you are correctly moving content.

1. Update the featured articles on the main page by replacing the current 'mapbanner' template section with those of the appropriate banner for the new DotM/OtBP/FTT found in the Next change section above.
2. Update the Photo credits page with the banner's original image, title and attribution.
3. Add the former featured article to the appropriate archive page: Previous Destinations of the month, Previously Off the beaten path, or Previous Featured travel topics.
4. For the former featured article, add the appropriate title icon to label the page as having been featured.
   1. For the former DotM, add to the bottom of the page: {{title-icons|dotm-icon}}
   2. For the former OtBP, add to the bottom of the page: {{title-icons|otbp-icon}}
   3. For the former FTT, add to the bottom of the page: {{title-icons|ftt-icon}}
5. Archive the newly featured article's nomination. Simply cut-and-paste the nomination section of the newly featured article from this page to Wikivoyage:Destination of the Month candidates/Archive.
6. Update the Next change section above by adding the banner from the discussion page. View the table in the Schedule section above to determine what next month's change will be, then update the image and blurb in the "Next change" section with that found in the upcoming featured article's nomination.

Nominations for Destination of the Month

Buffalo

Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Apr-Oct Nominated by: (WT-en) LtPowers 22:38, 2 June 2012 (EDT) Comment: It's more than just the gateway to Niagara Falls. Buffalo really has a fair bit going for it, and User:(WT-en) AndreCarrotflower has put in a lot of work to make this article reflect that. I know Andre was thinking of districting it, but I really think it's in quite good shape as it stands now. Blurb (to the right) needs work.

Nomination Buffalo is a city full of surprises. Though sometimes the butt of jokes, those in the know tell of vibrant nightlife, world-class cultural attractions, tight-knit neighborhoods with a real sense of place—and the sunniest summers in the Northeastern U.S.

• Support. Even if we were to district this, it would quickly be at guide status. Andre did awesome work. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 03:35, 3 June 2012 (EDT)

• Support. Thanks for the votes of confidence. It's true that I was thinking of breaking this article up into districts, but I feel this article is already substantially complete and, in my admittedly biased opinion, would work spectacularly as a DotM for all the reasons listed above. Given all the other things that are taking up my time at the moment, I would have absolutely no issue (quite the contrary!) with putting off the districting of the article until after its DotM month is over. --(WT-en) AndreCarrotflower 19:05, 4 June 2012 (EDT)
  • One minor quibble, though, is that I feel the article would be better served with a different photo on the front page. To sum Buffalo up with a photo of chicken wings seems to me to be hackneyed and an inaccurate depiction of this multifaceted city. I think the photo of the Commercial Slip would be a much better "introductory photo" to the Buffalo article. (WT-en) AndreCarrotflower 22:08, 15 June 2012 (EDT)
    • I was wondering if anyone would object. We don't often use images of cuisine on the front page, and I thought it would make for a nice change in that respect. It's a really good picture and I think it would look very iconic and eye-catching on the front page. Lots of cities have harbors and majestic buildings, but only Buffalo has real Buffalo wings. (That and there aren't a lot of options to choose from in the article at the moment.) (WT-en) LtPowers 12:08, 16 June 2012 (EDT)
      • I'm not at all averse to breaking convention, but I think it should be kept in mind that in writing the article, one of my intentions was to present Buffalo as a place that is not necessarily consistent with the average reader's preconceived ideas. I think that given its reputation, if we want Wikivoyagers to take an interest in Buffalo as a destination it's important that we move beyond the clichés like snow, lousy sports teams, and chicken wings (hence some of the things I wrote in the intro blurb). I agree that the range of photos on the page was not extensive enough to really allow this—and I agree that while Canalside is hugely important historically, any reader who might not be versed in Buffalo history could be forgiven for thinking it looks like something that could be found in any city. I think it bears mentioning, though, that Buffalo has become quite well-known among architecture buffs—and this is something we're beginning to take advantage of in terms of niche tourism—so perhaps it would be appropriate to focus on that aspect despite the fact that "[l]ots of cities have... majestic buildings". With that in mind, I've taken the liberty of uploading several new photos, many of which I feel are good candidates for new front-page photos. (WT-en) AndreCarrotflower 01:14, 17 June 2012 (EDT)
• Support. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 15:16, 21 July 2012 (EDT)
• Support -- Very nice. However, I think it might be best to district the city before featuring. Eat, Drink, & Sleep are just way too long. There have been two discussions about the Learn section on Wikivoyage talk:Big city article template. The general consensus seems to be that Learn should only be used for short-courses that travelers can partake in, but without a clear consensus on guideline & how to handle the section. Buffalo's Learn section is just a listing of colleges & universities and doesn't seem like something that belongs in a travel guide, especially one we're featuring. The third/last paragraph has useful info that could be moved to Do(?). Stay healthy is similar. Just mentioning facilities (with no address/contact) seems pointless. Per Big city article template: This is a section for general health tips. Hospitals belong in Cope and should probably have useful info...website, address, phone. Radio, Television, & Places of Worship are ok with WV guidelines, but these sections really seem encyclopedic. Radio & TV are useful, but the listings add to an already long page...maybe they'd be better in a table? The pics of Sweetness 7 Cafe, Swannie House, & Hotel Lafayette don't really seem notable enough to be an exception to the policy of no photos of just a business. Does the wings photo to go with the nomination really do this city justice? I was about to suggest a nice photo with lots of snow...iconic? yes...but this is going to be featured in summer and since it's not a winter destination, probably not the best image of the city for tourism. AHeneen (talk) 03:55, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Regarding districting Buffalo: I've already begun that process and aim to have it complete before Buffalo's stint as DotM. The first of the district articles is already complete, and the second one is well on its way also. Per the outcome of a conversation ([1], first two entries) with the esteemed Peter Fitzgerald, it was decided that the district articles would be left on my user page until all seven were completed, so on the off chance that May comes and all the districts aren't finished yet, we can at least feature the Buffalo article more or less as it is now, rather than with dead links to not-yet-complete districts.

Regarding "Learn" and "Stay Healthy": after reviewing past DotMs and OtBPs as well as current nominees, I can't say that I agree at all that a consensus of the type you cited has been established. For example, though there are a few past DotMs whose Learn sections have confined themselves to "short-courses that travelers can partake in", the vast majority of them—especially in the more recent past—have Learn sections that look much the same as Buffalo's. Washington, D.C., San Francisco, Medellín, Newcastle upon Tyne, and Kanazawa, as well as current nominees Pittsburgh and Madison, are only a few of the many examples. Meanwhile, of the relatively few past DotMs that include a "Stay Healthy" section, they generally all seem to follow the same ground rules as the Buffalo article—see London and Bristol—and I was unable to find any instances at all of hospitals being listed under "Cope", though I admit I didn't look all the way back to 2004. In any event, these two sections (especially "Learn") are among the few parts of the Buffalo article that are essentially unchanged from the time I began editing it.

Regarding radio and TV listings: your point is well taken. I'd love to see these long sections of prose converted into tables; if something like that conforms to Wikivoyage convention, I'd love to get started on that process.

Regarding the photos: I am aware of Wikivoyage's policy that encourages authors to be wary of using photos to tout individual businesses. However, I feel the photos of Sweetness 7, the Swannie House, and the Hotel Lafayette are notable enough to be justifiable—especially the Hotel Lafayette, whose restoration and reopening is a prime example of both the revival of downtown Buffalo and the boom in the hotel industry there, not to mention its notability from an architectural standpoint as the most important remaining work of Louise Blanchard Bethune, America's first female architect of importance. As for the Swannie House and Sweetness 7, these two businesses are notable (respectively) as one of the last remaining links to the First Ward's past as an industrial hub of working-class Irishmen, and as the driving force behind the Upper West Side's emergence as the newest hip neighborhood in Buffalo. These points are thoroughly elaborated upon in the photos' captions or elsewhere in the article.

Regarding the chicken wing photo: I am in complete agreement with you on that, as you can see from earlier comments on this thread. As I mentioned previously, there are plenty of other photos in the article that would do as good a job or better at conveying the true nature of Buffalo. I'm definitely open to suggestions for an alternate cover shot!

-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 05:17, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Traditionally, we've considered "Stay Healthy" to be reserved for large geographic areas with significant steps one must take to actually remain healthy, or the rare destination article that has truly significant health issues separate from its surrounding area. Health information for most destination articles has usually gone in "Stay safe", though "Cope" isn't a bad option for hospital listings. LtPowers (talk) 13:46, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Yellowstone National Park

Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: May-September. Visiting in winter is possible but most of the roads are closed. Nominated by: (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 00:02, 23 July 2012 (EDT) Comment: This was previously put in the slush pile but has since been significantly cleaned up and updated. The world's first national park, a UNESCO world heritage site, and an awesome place to visit.

Nomination Yellowstone National Park was the world's first national park, set aside in 1872 to preserve the vast number of geysers, hot springs, and other thermal areas, as well as to protect the incredible wildlife and rugged beauty of the area.

• Support. As well-written and comprehensive an article as any I've read. -- (WT-en) AndreCarrotflower 01:19, 23 July 2012 (EDT)
• Oppose There's a lot of text, but not a whole lot of content. What I mean is that Understand, Get in, Get around, & Stay safe seem too short to do the park justice. I'm sure even the park's official brochures have much more useful content than those sections and there are a number of complete books about just Yellowstone or Yellowstone/Grand Teton NPs (see Amazon.com). Is this really something we'd want to feature? See listings are plentiful, but many don't have useful descriptions...where exactly are they (directions together with a map...maybe even a special map, like one for geysers or one for hikes). Buy listings need expanded. Eat & Sleep listings don't have an address...the park is huge...where are they? There may not be a precedent for this, but Yellowstone is actually a suitable candidate to be divided into districts. Much of the See/Do is already conveniently divided by section of the park. AHeneen (talk) 04:23, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

  I'd like to improve the article and appreciate the feedback, but while the sections you've mentioned could clearly be expanded, there is a fine line between sufficient and too much detail that I think we want to be cautious of, so feedback from others would be appreciated. As to addresses, the park doesn't actually use numbered addresses and instead simply organizes places according to the village it is in, which this article does as well. As to the "see" listings, could you provide an example of one which you feel isn't useful? Again, they have been divided according to the park region they are located in, but perhaps the article can be cleaned up to make that point clearer. -- Ryan • (talk) • 19:38, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

• Weak support. I think there's a lot of good, solid info here, but I hesitate to throw my full support behind it just yet.

• The biggest issue I have is that a lot of the See listings are written in a very dry tone. Take the first one: "Yellowstone Lake is the largest lake at high elevation (more than 7,000 ft.) in North America. It is a natural lake, situated at 7,733 ft. above sea level. It is roughly 20 miles long and 14 miles wide with 141 miles of shoreline. It is frozen nearly half the year." Rather than painting a picture of the site, it reads like a statement of facts. Some livening up of the tone would be really nice.
• Additionally, while I get that there are no addresses in the park, there really should be at least some indication of which village each Eat, Drink and Sleep listing is in, because I can't for the life of me figure out where they are.
• A minor suggestion, but I would expand the lead and liven it up a bit, with a greater emphasis on what makes Yellowstone worth visiting.
• Another minor suggestion, but the text for the state names in both maps is really small and faint. I would make them more prominent, to give viewers a clearer sense of where Yellowstone sits in the country. PerryPlanet (talk) 20:06, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose There are lots of things that need worked on outlined above so I won't repeat them, but these things definitely need to be addressed in order to make this guide useful for travelers as well as to be featured. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 14:06, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Pittsburgh

Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: June or July Nominated by: PerryPlanet (talk) 20:20, 13 October 2012 (CEST) Comment: I've been sitting on this one for a while, and with the call for new DoTMs I thought I'd finally put it out there. Its guide status is well-earned, thanks to a large number of contributors who have built up the articles over the years. I've just gone through and checked all the external links, updating the info and doing some general tidying up, and I think it's good to go. Anytime from spring to fall is a fine time to visit, but I recommend June or July just because of the festivals taking place then; June has the Arts Festival, which is a pretty big deal, but July (my personal choice) has the Regatta, which is a huge event.

Nomination Though not built up by reputation, Pittsburgh has emerged from its industrial past with a diverse ethnic heritage and an unusual array of cultural treasures for a city of its size. Natural scenery, world-class institutions and cheap food and beer abound in this true sports town.

• Strong support from a big fan of the revitalizing Rust Belt. An exceptionally well-written article for an exceptionally worthwhile (and, as the blurb mentions, exceptionally underrated) destination. I would vote for it twice if I could. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:58, 13 October 2012 (CEST)
• Support. No question here, it's one of our best huge city guides. --Peter ^Talk 17:56, 2 November 2012 (CET)

  Good call on replacing the image, too - this new one is magnificent! -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 08:26, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

  Except, as I noted on the talk page, for the absence of the bright red incline car, which I feel really sold the old image. LtPowers (talk) 00:32, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

• Support –sumone10154^(talk) 03:23, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
• Support Can't wait to see on the main page. jan (talk) 17:51, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

• Support I had always held off on nominating this myself for two reasons. The first being that I really don't like the map. (can that be redone prior to feature?) The second was because I was hoping to add the art doors of the Oakland Art Project (or something like that). It's kind of fun to walk around and find them and of course it's free. I remember where some are but now that I'm no longer there, it might be too difficult to find them (and ideally a map of their locations would be good but I can't make maps either). ChubbyWimbus (talk) 16:35, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

The map looks okay to me. I suppose it could be larger or in higher resolution, but I gather that's what the maps in the district articles are for. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:29, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

The map is geographically fine, but it is the color scheme and non-wikifiedness of it that I dislike. I wish it were put in the wikified format using the pastel palate that is used on other maps. (my second point is just referencing a personal failure on the Pittsburgh project and nothing more). ChubbyWimbus (talk) 03:45, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

The colors were clearly chosen to match the Wayfinder signs used around Pittsburgh itself. This, then, is a special case and I think changing the colors would be a mistake. LtPowers (talk) 02:53, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

• Support Good work, very useful guide. JuliasTravels (talk) 17:07, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Stockholm

Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: June-August Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 14:27, 11 January 2013 (UTC) Comment: A lengthy guide, with many district articles.

Nomination Stockholm is the capital and largest city of Sweden with nearly 2 million inhabitants in the urban area. The city is famous for the Nobel Prize, the Woodland Cemetery, and the home of Stieg Larsson's Millennium series, as well as several museums, including the display of 17th-century warship Vasa.

• Maybe. I'm going to take a closer look at this article later, but right off the bat there are a number of listings in the "See", "Buy" and other sections that need to be moved to the district articles. The article certainly has potential, though - there's tons of information here. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:48, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

The main article has been made slightly shorter. /Yvwv (talk) 12:37, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

• Support The map is non-standard and some links are not mos but in general a very good and districted article. jan (talk) 08:59, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Xiamen

Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: probably N hemisphere winter Nominated by: Pashley (talk) 13:38, 12 March 2013 (UTC) Comment: One of China's most pleasant cities to visit. It has many expatriate residents and much Chinese tourism, but not huge numbers of other tourists.

Nomination Xiamen skyline, seen from Gulangyu Xiamen (厦门; Xiàmén) [2] is a coastal city in Fujian Province in China. It has been an important port for centuries and became one of China's earliest Special Economic Zones in 1980. The name Xiamen means "door to the house", referring to the city's centuries-old role as a gateway to China. Xiamen is a very vibrant, affluent and modern place, though by Chinese standards it is a small city — only 1.9 million in the city itself and 3.6 million counting suburbs. It has many non-Chinese residents and a range of restaurants, bars and stores that cater to them. It also has several universities and some areas popular for tourism. The most important tourist area is Gulangyu, a small island which contains some beautiful colonial buildings and is car free.

The most important tourist area of Xiamen is Gulangyu, which we cover in a separate article. The two articles need some sort of joint evaluation.

Perhaps more discussion is also needed at Talk:Xiamen#Districts.3F, though I do not think so. Pashley (talk) 14:02, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

• Almost support. Nice article, but is there a reason why addresses are omitted? There are no directions in place of addresses for the sights too. Without some form of help finding main attractions, I wouldn't really agree that this is at guide status. --Peter ^Talk 16:17, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

• Almost support for basically the same reasons as Peter. The raw material is very nice indeed, but we need to add addresses to the listings in "See", "Do", "Eat", and "Sleep" and (perhaps just as importantly) place them into the usual listing format. Also, it's a more minor concern, but could we possibly make a better map for this article? There's next to no detail in the one it has currently. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 08:43, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

• I made some changes aimed at dealing with those objections. More comment is now solicited.

I don't do maps. Volunteers? Pashley (talk) 18:26, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

I gather that addresses are not helpful in Xiamen from the fact that you added directions instead. If you could confirm that, I'll switch to support. --Peter ^Talk 20:00, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

I did add addresses when I could find them, but I am currently nowhere near X and the web was not always helpful. In general, giving or getting directions in China is difficult. Many Chinese do not seem to know addresses or to use N/S/E/W in directions; they just name a nearby building (whose name the poor foreigner often does not know & cannot pronounce!) or the nearest subway or BRT stop. Pashley (talk) 20:25, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

I kind of figured as much. Support. --Peter ^Talk 21:15, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Do we need to look at districtifying Xiamen before we proceed? See Xiamen#Orientation and Talk:Xiamen#Districts.3F. I'd say the current structure is OK, but it is both unusual & somewhat ad hoc, so other opinions are needed.

Administratively, Xiamen is a city with six districts: Siming = S half of Xiamen Island + Gulangyu, Huli = N half of the Island, plus four mainland suburbs. We partly follow that structure, giving each mainland suburb its own article (though three out of four are only stubs) but we deviate from it too, giving Gulangyu its own article and treating most of Siming + Huli (all of Xiamen Island) together.

Related questions are article names & IsPartOf links. Should the current Xiamen article be mostly at "Xiamen/Xiamen Island" and the others at "Xiamen/Gulangyu", "Xiamen/Jimei" etc.? Currently the IsPartOf link for Gulangyu points to Xiamen but the mainland suburbs have links to Southern Coast (Fujian), Is that OK?

The current structure is mostly my work, but I was making it up as I went along. It needs review. Pashley (talk) 20:09, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

• Comment Some suggestions on improvement; I think the "Get around" section should have the sublistings ("by bike", etc.). It's already mostly organized that way but the headings aren't there. There are an awful lot of food specialties but the article only tells us where we can try one of them. The panorama pictures are not that clear (I also think that panoramas on WV break up the text in an unattractive way in general). The "See" section has an awful lot of text at the beginning. Is there any way to Listingify?

As far as districting goes, as it is, this city does not have enough attractions to justify districting. It might work to subdivide the "See" section by the districts assuming the sites are not all clumped into one. That could also help solve the text issue. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 12:14, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

I disagree on the "get around" section. To me, adding subheadings would just clutter it; the current text with things like by taxi bolded is fine.

I have broken up both the See and Eat sections by adding headings for the main areas for sites and restaurants. Pashley (talk) 23:15, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Oakland

Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: I believe the weather in Oakland is passable any time of year, though some outlying areas are very hot in the summer. Nominated by: User:Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:14, 14 May 2013 (UTC) Comment: User:Challenger l has done a great job getting this article up to speed.

Nomination Downtown Oakland's distinctive skyline, including the Tribune Building and the Courthouse, from Lake Merritt Oakland is often overlooked in favor of San Francisco across the Bay, but it is increasingly becoming a place to visit and party.

• Support Needless to say, as nominator, I support featuring this article at a suitable time. It is arguably one of our better non-star guides, and Oakland is an important Californian city which has gained in vibrancy as Art Murmur has become huge, with associated musical and dance performances, performance art, and other street life. Many people now come the other way across the Bay to have fun in Oakland. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:24, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support. On my trip to the West Coast in 2005, I distinctly remember finding Oakland more interesting than San Francisco, even. Also, Challenger's work has been exemplary and definitely deserves recognition on the Main Page. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:31, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Nominations for Off the Beaten Path

Childs

Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Summer is best; the main attraction is closed Nov-May Nominated by: (WT-en) LtPowers 22:36, 29 June 2012 (EDT) Comment: Tiny little hamlet that just barely meets our article criteria, with one place to stay, one place to eat, and one thing to see. It's all good, though, so I have no trouble recommending it as a destination.

Nomination Childs is like many other small hamlets scattered throughout Western New York. But few such hamlets have what Childs has: a top-notch restaurant housed in an old stagecoach stop, comfortable bed-and-breakfast-style accommodations, and a unique museum complex steeped in history.

• At the risk of stacking the deck with too many Western New York destinations at a time, Support. An astoundingly comprehensive and well-written article for a place that is DEFINITELY "off the beaten path". --(WT-en) AndreCarrotflower 21:13, 3 July 2012 (EDT)

• Support. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 11:16, 13 July 2012 (EDT)
• Let's wait a bit - too many OtBP in this part of the world at the moment... Tsandell (talk) 22:35, 18 September 2012 (CEST)
  • Agreed. AndreCarrotflower (talk) 06:00, 23 September 2012 (CEST)
• Comment -- So all there is to see & do is a museum? There are 5 inter-wiki links (Batavia is just a stub with a template & Orleans County is just an outline) and 6 red inter-wiki links (pages don't exist). I typed oppose, but then I realized these aren't valid criteria to oppose...this is a guide article. Will start a thread on the talk page about this issue soon. AHeneen (talk) 04:43, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose I'm not sure this hamlet is interesting enough to be featured. I might be persuaded if there could be more pretty pictures. I'll give an example: Sermoneta is a small hill village, and with quite a lot more information, I think it might eventually be possible to feature it as an OtBP some day, because though there isn't that much in the way of discrete sights, the entire village is just really pleasant to walk through, and there are great views of the surrounding countryside from viewpoints high on the hill. Is a single attraction with a photo sufficient for a feature? I really don't think so, when we could instead, for example, feature a small town like Brattleboro that has loads of pretty buildings. So to sum up: There are so many seemingly more interesting places to feature that I am having trouble seeing a good rationale to ever feature this one, unless a case can be made with more photos that it is just extremely pleasant to visit. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:58, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Comment - The points made by Ikan and AHeneen are arguable per se, but it bears repeating that there are only four factors that are supposed to be considered in evaluating a featured article:

1) that it not have been featured previously,

2) that it be at Guide status or better,

2a) that it have at least one good picture, and

2b) that it be listingified in conformity with mos.

According to all four of these criteria, Childs is perfectly eligible to be featured as OtBP. Furthermore, the guidelines listed on the top of this page explicitly say that rejecting articles for any other reason is invalid (to quote, "all objections have to be based on the guidelines above").

And for the record, I live about an hour's drive from Childs, and actually was inspired by this very article to make a trip up there to visit the cobblestone museum. I can personally vouch for the fact that it's a worthwhile OtBP by any definition.

-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 02:09, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Reply Your personal experience carries a lot of weight with me, and probably with others. I think our criteria should be altered, so that not every guide-level article with one photo is equally eligible to be featured, but that aside, could at least a couple of more good photos be inserted into this guide? Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:53, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

I really don't like the double-listing appearance of the content. Why is it written with a blurb followed by the name (again), address, hours, etc.? It looks redundant and disconnected. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 17:10, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm not happy with it either. I welcome any attempts to reformat it usefully. LtPowers (talk) 00:41, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Johor Bahru

Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: I think it's pretty much hot, humid, and wet in this part of the world all the time, so anytime. Nominated by: Peter Talk 06:52, 14 September 2012 (CEST) Comment: I caught wind of this article on special:longpages! While not perfect, we're not working on a star nomination, and this is a good showcase for the sort of depth we provide on destinations to which ye olde printed guide would give little attention. It's a big city, which makes it an odd choice for OtBP, but I think it's little visited and not terribly well known on a global scale. Having a huge city in OtBP would be kind of a novelty, too.

Nomination This is that skyline you see in Malaysia if you look across the causeway from Singapore—that of Johor Bahru! Though certainly not on the shortlist of Malaysia's top tourist attractions, the city can be a real adventure, with many shopping complexes and a wide variety of food establishments.

• Soft support It definitely needs some shortening in the Get in and Get around section. If you are willing to tackle that, then yes. Jc8136 (talk) 20:34, 19 September 2012 (CEST)

Needs major work I tried to improve the JB article but currently i think without a major drive to improve that article, it will not happen. jan (talk) 11:25, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

• Not yet. This article is much too long. It needs a lot of clean-up work to be done, some listings even have prices listed for each product sold. If it is featured, however, I'd say it should be a DotM, as it has more than 1.5 million inhabitants. And it's a stop-over point for many travellers to Singapore. --Globe-trotter (talk) 14:23, 23 September 2012 (CEST)
• Needs work This article has troubled me for quite a while as it has needed a good scrub out, as indicated by Globetrotter above. I notice Jan has recently given it some well needed attention, it probably needs some more. The article and the destination are both worthwhile, it is a gateway to Malaysia and has it's own facets of interest.-- Felix (talk) 19:13, 3 October 2012 (CEST)

Madison

Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Warm and humid in summer, often very cold in winter, and temperate spring and fall conditions - so I'm guessing Spring/Fall Nominated by: Tsandell (talk) 14:37, 22 September 2012 (CEST) Comment: Stumbled upon this whilst following the Random Pages trail. Surprised by its depth and breadth of listings, and the fact that it doesn't seem to have got a lot of attention yet.

Nomination Madison is a small city in south-central Wisconsin in the USA. It has many excellent restaurants, an active theater community, lots of music, and good shopping, yet it is just minutes from beautiful rural countryside.

• This is a pretty good article. Barely a Guide, but it's clearly better than Usable. Could use a map, and some of the listings are a bit sparse. The Learn and Work sections need to be adjusted to conform to what we actually want to use them for. But those are quibbles; I Support. I don't think a state capital with a quarter million residents is really Off the Beaten Path, though. LtPowers (talk) 17:38, 22 September 2012 (CEST)

• The article seems fine to me. I disagree with LtPowers when he calls it "barely" a guide; the "Understand" section, while not the most detailed one I've ever seen, is sufficient, while the "See", "Do", "Buy", "Eat", "Sleep" etc. listings - the real meat and potatoes of any article - are as numerous, varied, and interesting as any of the best Guide articles I've seen. But I wholeheartedly agree with him about the DotM/OtBP issue. I would absolutely not describe Madison as OtBP; IMO it clearly belongs on the DotM list. Final summation: Support - but as DotM! AndreCarrotflower (talk) 23:11, 22 September 2012 (CEST)

This is a relatively minor point and I'm happy for it to be a DotM as opposed to OtBP, but I think it deserves to be pressed a little: despite the fact that it's a state capital and a relatively large city, to those of us outside the US, Madison is off the beaten path when it comes to tourism in the US. If we were a website with an audience solely in the US, then maybe it could be considered a DotM; but we are not. Hence why I put it here under OtBP. But, as I said, I'm happy to let this one go DotM - just want you to hear a non-American viewpoint. Tsandell (talk) 00:41, 23 September 2012 (CEST)

As far as guide status goes: just for starters, there are very very few prices listed anywhere in the article, not even in the Get Around section (buses, taxis, parking...). LtPowers (talk) 03:56, 23 September 2012 (CEST)

Agreed. Also, easily fixed. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 07:53, 23 September 2012 (CEST)

• Support WP states 200' something and for the metro 568' something, so its quite of the track imho... I agree that for every non-US human Wisconsin is definitely a dairy state and its picture in Switzerland is influenced by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/That_%2770s_Show ;-) Jc8136 (talk) 14:17, 24 September 2012 (CEST)
  • Rochester (New York) (city population 210,000) was a DotM, and it's not even a state capital. LtPowers (talk) 18:56, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Excellent point, LtPowers. It's definitely in the gray area, but I agree with you and stand by what I said earlier, that it ought to be DotM. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 14:22, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

• Sorry, this is still a Not yet for me. There are very few prices in the Eat, Drink, and Sleep listings, and there is no prose in See, Do, Buy, or Sleep. There is also no map and just one photograph. I don't really consider this up to guide quality. I also strongly feel this qualifies as a DotM, and placing as OtBP stretches the definition of same to the breaking point. LtPowers (talk) 13:42, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

• Support as OtBP; I do not think it is a DoTM candidate. One nit to pick; Madison#By_bus gives two different prices for the VanGalder bus and the higher one is "as of 2010". It needs one current price listing. Pashley (talk) 14:29, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

  How is it that Madison is Off the Beaten Path but Rochester, Ann Arbor, and for heaven's sake Figueres are not? LtPowers (talk) 15:01, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

  I don't know enough about Figueres. Ann Arbor and especially Rochester are on a more beaten path simply because of their location in better traveled parts of the country. Madison is a pretty small city, not usually considered a tourist destination, and kind of in the middle of nowhere. All of these though, including Madison, could go either way, but if any of them were to be OtBP, it would be Madison. I also tend to think that we get a little U.S./Europe-centric in our DotM vs. OtBP choices regarding cities and should restrain that impulse, but this is all just my subjective opinion. --Peter ^Talk 17:06, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

• Comment: Once again I repeat that I agree with you, LtPowers, about the DotM/OtBP issue. But you and I are the only ones who hold that position as of now, and we've argued for it repeatedly without swaying anyone else to our side. So I've pretty much abandoned the idea that we'll ever reach a consensus to feature this as anything other than an OtBP.

I'd like to leave Madison in the schedule for now. Give me a month to whip this article into shape like I did to Guadalajara. (Alternatively, if someone else wants to take care of that while I continue devoting my energy to districting Buffalo, that'd be even better.)

-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:54, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Just for good measure, I'll throw a pointer to this thread on the pub to see if we can scare up any supporters to switch Madison to DotM. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:19, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

• Needs more photos. I think this article is excellent. The only thing that causes me to hold back from supporting it right now is that it has but one photo. A few more photos of some of the buildings described as beautiful, etc., would be welcome. However, after the photos are inserted, I would support running this as a DotM. A Midwestern city with direct flights from Atlanta, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Newark, New York City, and Washington, D.C., that hosts a state capitol and one of the bigger universities in the country (in the tens of thousands) doesn't seem very far off the beaten path to me. What would be a European equivalent? Bologna, perhaps? Orleans? Are those off the beaten path? I don't think so. Am I missing something? Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:15, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Comment I should mention that I did add 4 more photos. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:59, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

After a bit of thought, I think the best thing to do is to take Madison off the schedule for the time being. Firstly, the momentum on the DotM vs. OtBP debate appears to be slowly shifting toward DotM. Secondly, and more importantly, Madison needs a lot of mos work to be truly ready for the Main Page. If it's to go up in only ten days, fixing these problems would require most of my attention; no one else has stepped in to do any cleanup work, and I've made some impressive headway the past week or two on the latest Buffalo district article, so I'm not sure I'd be eager to disrupt my rhythm. If we hold it off till, say, September as DotM, we'll buy ourselves some time to address these problems. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 01:36, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

La Macarena

Article status: Star (must be guide or above). Time to feature: July-October Nominated by: Peter Talk 22:22, 28 October 2012 (CET) Comment: I intend to do more work on this, but couldn't hold off nominating in my excitement. It's the first English-language guide of any substance to this truly amazing place.

Nomination A tiny, remote outpost in the vast plains of the Colombian Orinoquía, a town once firmly under control of the FARC, La Macarena is today best known as the base for visiting one of Colombia's most incredible hidden gems: Caño Cristales, the River of Seven Colors.

• Strong support. A well-written article, and as I mentioned in my nomination of Guadalajara for DotM, it's been a long time since we had a Latin American destination on our front page. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 22:43, 30 October 2012 (CET)
• Support Great work Peter! Jc8136 (talk) 17:26, 2 November 2012 (CET)
• Support I love this article. It's got beautiful photos and really good information throughout! That's what I call an adventure! Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:38, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
• Support Very nice. AHeneen (talk) 23:59, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Clarence

Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Anytime Apr-Nov but especially Aug-Oct Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 23:15, 1 November 2012 (CET) Comment: At the risk of tooting my own horn, and at the risk of stacking the deck with too many Western New York destinations for DotM/OtBP, I am really pleased with my work on this article. I don't know that we've ever had a suburb as a featured destination, and out of all the suburbs with which I'm familiar enough to write their Wikivoyage article (admittedly not all that many), I can't think of a more worthwhile one for folks to visit than Clarence. Like Buffalo, Clarence would be featureable anytime other than winter, but it's especially suitable IMO for the autumn - the Fall Festival and the Clarence Hollow Farmers' Market are in full swing, and the leaves are lovely. Please note that I do intend to add a map, but given that I've completed all the other substantial work that needed to be done with this article, I'm submitting Clarence for your approval as OtBP.

Nomination Located 20 miles (30km) from Buffalo, where suburbia transitions to rural arcadia, Clarence is most notable as a haven for antique shopping. Main Street in Clarence Hollow, the town's quaint business district, is the site of many of the antique stores that draw visitors from all over the region—as well as charming shops, restaurants, and other attractions.

• Support -- Very nice. Only comment is that climate info should be added, not linked to another page (Buffalo). You should check out the Star criteria and nominate this page there as well. When scheduling, this should be separated from Buffalo by a few months, Buffalo is scheduled for May, then this could go in Sep-Oct then? Sound good? AHeneen (talk) 23:57, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Regarding the scheduling: I totally agree. I'd love to see it as OtBP around October, but I'm sensitive to the fact that the Northeastern U.S. is likely going to be featured on the front page quite a lot over the next few months (Buffalo as well as Pittsburgh and Childs), so if it doesn't end up being featured till 2014 I'd even be fine with that.

Regarding climate: when I wrote this article, I was very sensitive to the fact that much of the information in it, including the Climate section, would essentially be a duplication of the same sections in the Buffalo article. The way the article reads today is largely a product of a conversation between LtPowers and myself ([3]and [4]) on how best to handle the issue. (Salient quote from LtPowers: "[I]t's not unreasonable to assume in prose that the traveler will also be interested in the Buffalo article; providing a summary in the Clarence article and linking to Buffalo for expanded information makes sense.") In short, I'm not married to the Climate section as it is now, but I'm also given to understand that simply cutting-and-pasting large swaths of text from one article to another is to be avoided. I'd love to hear any alternative ideas you may have for addressing this issue. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 22:51, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

• Support, with comments First, the article is really impressive, and seems ripe for a star nomination. But one thing I wonder about is that there are listings within Amherst, but Amherst (New York) is a red link. Wouldn't it be better for there to be an actual article for Amherst, New York, and for all Amherst listings to be moved there? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:08, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

That's the eventual plan. I included listings for businesses in Amherst on Transit Road only, which is the town line between Clarence and Amherst. I thought it didn't make much sense to include businesses on one side of the road and exclude the ones on the other side. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 23:20, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

I think that, on balance, it will make sense when there is a separate article for Amherst, as the alternative would be to duplicate listings. I think the solution would be to separate out Transit Road listings in both articles and have links directing readers to the relevant sub-sections in the other article. Though if there's a more elegant solution that doesn't separate listings on one side of the street from listings on the other, I'm sure you'll find it.Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:37, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

The problem is that Amherst is an administrative division, not an individual community. But this nomination is about Clarence, not Amherst, so that's a bit of a tangent. I feel that hewing slavishly to the lines created by the Holland Land Office 200 years ago isn't in the spirit of Wikivoyage, so I have no problem with including both sides of Transit in this article. LtPowers (talk) 00:15, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

By way of updating a previous conversation about Amherst: LtPowers' point is an arguable one, but unless I have a major change of heart over the next few months, I think what would best serve the traveller is a single, districtified Amherst (New York) article.

The inherent problems with LtPowers' model are:

1. While established "sub-communities" within Amherst do exist, there are many locations within the town that don't fall within any of them, and no place name other than Amherst can be used to define their location. I think vague concepts such as North Amherst or West Amherst would make far more sense as district articles than as stand-alones.
2. All of these sub-communities are understood by locals to be parts of the larger community of Amherst, rather than independent entities. Buffalo neighborhoods such as the Elmwood Village and the West Side are set up as district articles, not separate city articles; the situation with Amherst's sub-communities is essentially the same and, IMO, should be dealt with accordingly.
3. Amherst would most likely be the only Buffalo suburb to be treated this way. The inconsistency would be frankly off-putting.

-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 02:21, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

What's inconsistent is following administrative boundaries instead of grouping communities organically, which is what we do everywhere else. I'm not sure what suburbs of Buffalo you're referring to, since only Eden and Clarence have articles at the moment, but treating Amherst, an administrative division of a county, as a Huge City makes no sense to me. I find the concept of someone targeting Amherst, NY, as a destination and making sure they visit all corners of the town from UB to Williamsville -- and needing multiple articles to do so -- to be bordering on the absurd. But we really should have this discussion elsewhere. LtPowers (talk) 13:50, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

I thought I made it clear above that a) Amherst is both an administrative division and an "organic community", and b) the other suburban articles I referred to have not been written yet (though, for the record, Grand Island (New York) also exists currently), and it would not make sense to structure them any other way as each of them, too, are both organic communities and administrative divisions.

I agree that on its face, treating Amherst as a Huge City despite the fact that it's not a major tourist draw may seem absurd at first glance. But in my view, keeping the article from being too long is the more important concern. For a suburb—especially for a suburb of a city that's not all that big—Amherst is uncommonly large in population and rich in attractions for visitors. And, frankly, if an author is too picky in determining which information to include or exclude, the article suffers.

I think that if it seems that an unusual amount of attention is being devoted to a place like Amherst relative to other places of similar perceived importance, the onus should be on contributors to those other articles to step it up, not on the more enthusiastic editor to exclude worthwhile listings for the sake of brevity. And yes, some of those other destinations will never get coverage that thorough, but that's the fundamental nature of a wiki.

By way of comparison, Diving the Cape Peninsula and False Bay is an article that caters to a fairly narrow niche of travellers, yet it's a Star Article, a former Featured Travel Topic, and one of the longest articles on the site—and it's "districted", so to speak, into no fewer than 61 sub-articles (Diving the Cape Peninsula and False Bay/Hout Bay harbour et al.), far more than any other destination. Yet, no one argues that that article should be shorter and/or should be contained in one single page—and rightly so. Peter (Southwood) did fantastic work on it.

-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 18:32, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Musandam Peninsula

Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Nov-Apr Nominated by: jan (talk) 11:15, 28 March 2013 (CET) Comment: I spent some time on my last trip at Musandam and it seems to be a world away from Dubai and other fancy GCC places. Musandam is an exclave of Oman and covers the tip of the Arabian Peninsula facing Iran. Musandam is slowly opening up to tourism and focus on marine activities and hiking/trekking in the mountains. For UAE residents it is a welcome weekend trip and for travellers a welcome change to the craziness of Dubai

Nomination Musandam is an Omani exclave on the tip of the Arabian Peninsula. It is bordered on all sides by the United Arab Emirates and just a two hours drive from Dubai. Musandam has maintained it's traditional style and is a world away from the megacities of the UAE. Enjoy a dhow cruise, take a fresh breeze in the mountains and enjoy the nature.

• Support I know the Peninsula needs a map and some pics are missing but it will be done within the next weeks. I would be very grateful if someone helps with the map as sources are very limited. jan (talk) 10:09, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

A map showing the position of the peninsula in the Gulf area would be very helpful. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:35, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

• Support, with a few minor caveats. The article seems a bit too short. Could we possibly expand some of the sections, particularly "See"? (Alternatively, if the listings belong in city articles, could we make the links to those city articles more prominent, i.e. by adding "Cities" and "Other destinations" sections?) -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:12, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Also, kudos on choosing a cover shot that's easily translatable into the banner format! -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:13, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Andre, going on a boat, hiking, trekking and the mountains are the main activities. There is no wide range of activities as the tourism industry has not really developped the area. The charme of Musandam is its silence and out of the civilised world touch... jan (talk) 10:08, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

• Almost. It would be great to have a Middle Eastern feature, and this is looking really great! Since it is a region article, its sub-destination articles should be usable. All that is needed for this is to add a couple Eat listings to Dibba (Musandam Peninsula) along with something in the See section (even if its just an explanation that there are no touristic sights). It would be nice to highlight these towns a little more in the Musandam Peninsula article too, if not creating a full "Cities" section. --Peter ^Talk 16:52, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

I know that Dibba is my weak point so far. I will add some more infos but the border issue makes it hard and most non-GCC UAE residents avoid the hassle with the 48 hrs advance notice. I think i can reach an article with all section entries in a couple of weeks. jan (talk) 10:08, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

• Support. Dibba looks usable now. --Peter ^Talk 14:30, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

• Support. I support running this guide, even though both Dibba (Musandam) and Khasab need some work. I think the Dibba article is not quite usable yet, and one of the problems is that PO Boxes have been used in lieu of physical addresses for some entries (and I deleted those PO Box numbers as not useful for travelers to actually find the places in question). I haven't been to Dibba, so I don't know whether Dibba Ring Rd. is compact enough that no address numbers are needed for travelers to fairly easily find named businesses. The Khasab article is in pretty good shape right now and already a guide. The main problem with it is the red-linked photos, which may have to just be deleted. But the Musandam article itself has beautiful photos, clear text, and is about a place that seems like a real adventure, and which very few non-locals have ever heard of. I think that it would be an excellent Off the Beaten Path. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:01, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

I tried to make as many photos as possible on my trip to Musandam but some sadly with quite a lot of people in it... I wrote to Joao on his travel blog if he could migrate his account to WV and upload his good pics again but so far he has not responded. I forgot to make some pics in Dibba without the Iphone and they are bad in quality (dusty). Dibba is so small that most people don't say 123 abc street but building 101 street cnr ring road or next to mosque etc. If it wasn't so hot/dusty then you could walk it in 30 minutes. jan (talk) 11:22, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

• Support as a good off the beaten path item - sats (talk) 07:05, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Churchill

Place: Churchill Blurb: The Polar Bear Capital of the World, the Beluga Capital of the World, and a capital choice to see the Northern Lights right overhead. (should not exceed ~145 characters) Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Preferably July-November, but a late winter feature would work too (for Aurora season) Nominated by: Peter Talk 20:51, 3 April 2013 (UTC) Comment: My recent trip to photograph polar bears and see the northern lights has to be one of the coolest experiences I've ever had. The article is just about ready for a starnom (although that nomination page has been a little dysfunctional in the past year or two...), so it should be ready for the main page. Excuse all my silly jokes, and the fact that I stuffed the page with pictures—those godless killing machines are just so cute!

Nomination

Just a note, I used {{FeatureNom}} instead of the usual {{DotmNomination}}, as I created the template to deal with our new feature protocol, which calls for a banner image and a shorter blurb. --Peter ^Talk 20:51, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

• Strong, strong, strong support. It's an impeccably-written article that I've had my eye on for awhile, but I was beginning to despair that those pictures Peter was waiting for would never turn up! Churchill is the odds-on favorite for my own next travel adventure, and featuring it during polar bear season (Oct-Nov) or aurora season (Nov-Mar) would make for a nice change of pace during a time of year that's otherwise characterized by tropical and Southern Hemisphere destinations. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 22:40, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

One minor issue: I'd tweak the blurb to eliminate the adjectival use of "capital" (interesting choice of word, but it makes the sentence read funny) and the over-repetition of the word "Northern" toward the end. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 07:44, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

The iteration of capital is an intentional pun to poke fun at the town for calling itself the capital of so many things. I put a similar joke in the lede to the article: "For a multi-purpose capital, though, it's rather small..." The iteration of Northern was very much intentional too, as an attempt at creativity ;) --Peter ^Talk 16:05, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Whoops, I see I've already eliminated the "Northern" bit, since it didn't fit on two lines. I've updated the blurb here. --Peter ^Talk 16:16, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

• Support. I absolutely support featuring this article - it's great! Why is it marked only as "Usable"? It looks like a star to me. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:04, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
• Most definitely support. It would be a crime not to feature this article. PerryPlanet (talk) 04:30, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
• Outstanding and support Can't wait to see it on the front page. jan (talk) 08:58, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
• Support. Pashley (talk) 12:13, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Ölgii

Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: June–August Nominated by: --User:Ikan Kekek Talk 22:08, 10 May 2013 (UTC) Comment: We've had only one featured Mongolia article before: Hovd, in June 2009. User:Eaglehunter and User:Altaihunters have done a lot of great work on this article. It's certainly off the beaten path, and I think our readers will find it interesting and colorful.

Nomination View from Bugan Tou Mt overlooking Ölgii Ölgii is the capital and cultural center of Bayan-Ölgii Province, an area of great natural beauty and Kazakh hospitality in Western Mongolia.

• Support with comment Obviously, as the nominator, I support running this article. However, I am aware that the listings are not structured in standard templates. I will mention this to Altaihunters (Eaglehunter no longer seems to be active, and I suspect s/he and Altaihunters are the same user) when I inform him/her of this nomination. I mentioned this in Talk:Ölgii, but no action has been taken on this so far. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:44, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Reply We are the same user, I had to change names to consolidate accounts. I have added a map and fixed the listings. Altaihunters (talk) 04:34, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

• Comment Did you intend to nominate this for OtBP or FTT? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 05:54, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Reply It seems like more of an OtBP to me, but I guess that could be argued. I hope Altaihunters weighs in after s/he reads my message on his/her user talk page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:58, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Oh wait, I misread your question. This isn't a travel topic, so I wouldn't think it could be an FTT - only OtBP or DoTM, and I think it's off the beaten path. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:17, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Reply OtBP would probably be most appropriate (Western Mongolia lacks paved roads, so literally off the beaten path) Altaihunters (talk) 04:38, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

@Altaihunters - I assumed that was the case, but Ölgii's nomination was originally placed under Nominations for Featured Travel Topic. I had intended to (and eventually did) move it to the proper category, but I wanted to make doubly sure of the nominator's intentions before doing so. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 01:49, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support. An interesting destination, definitely off the beaten path. Those formatting issues should be an easy fix. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:29, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support Good article and really OtBP. jan (talk) 08:42, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support - Great to have somewhere that people may not usually think to visit, and it has been well-written. Great job! JamesA ^>talk 05:07, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Nominations for Featured travel topic

Driving in Australia

Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Nov-Apr Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 01:42, 24 November 2012 (UTC) Comment: An excellent article, and a great FTT candidate for the coming months.

Nomination Driving in Australia is an experience to be savoured. It is a way to experience the wide-open spaces and magnificent natural scenery, and there are so many destinations that can only be experienced by car. Before setting off you should make sure you are well prepared for the Australian driving experience.

• Though my support might be considered implicit given the fact that I'm the one who nominated this article, I think it's worth placing emphasis on the fact that it would be greatly preferable to fast-track this article's tenure on the front page rather than wait till the next Northern Hemisphere winter, i.e. when travel to Australia is most desirable. Given the fact that we have far more ?s on the schedule grid for FTT than for DotM and OtBP, and far fewer "travel topic" articles at Guide status or better than actual destination articles, I'd hate for us to have to scramble to find suitable FTTs for the interim. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:35, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

• Tentative support—could use some cleanup First, I don't think the timing is right. Wouldn't the summer (N. Hemisphere winter) be the worst least preferable time to visit or plan a driving trip around Australia? For starters, it's my understanding that most of the Outback will be quite hot during the summer (35-45°C and even higher). Plus, summer is the wet season in the tropics. Now, the Southeast and coastal Queensland might get the most visitors, but thinking of driving, the long distances of reaching the Red Center from Adelaide or Melbourne or traveling Perth-Darwin lend themselves better to self-driving. Winter, or especially late fall or early spring seem like the best times for a visit. My visit to Australia went from Port Douglas/Cairns down to Sydney in late June/early July and while some evenings/nights were chilly, it seemed like beautiful weather (if it was typical). Other images to use: File:Stuart Highway.jpg, File:Australia animal warning sign.jpg, File:Kangaroo Sign at Stuart Highway.jpg (the best in Category:Kangaroo warning signs).

Now as for the article itself, it first needs some good pictures. The process of buying a car needs to be explained...need more than just a few tips. Even if the process varies by state (and there's only 8 states/terr.), is much of the process similar? Maybe a brief description of 4x4/campervan/car pros/cons could be added. Info on renting a car should be added too! This information is already found on Australia#By car. Also, a brief section on importing & how/restrictions to import a vehicle would be useful...but that's probably something to be improved for a star nomination, not necessarily FTT. Ironically the "Driving times" table doesn't provide times...only distances. Times in the Australia#By car section, though, and can be moved. Other than that, there's a lot of just plain prose, which is nice, but it's a lot of solid blocks of text that somehow should be better organized or broken up. Some of the content overlaps, like legal issue & safety, city driving, rural driving, and outback driving all have safety & legal info that isn't replicated in other sections...like speed limits. Some content should be in a general driving section and moved out of city/rural/outback driving...like overtaking, parking, road markings, driving times, animals, and staying awake. Also, would it be possible to move some of the laws into lists (the subject of each law can be highlighted)? That said, the content as it exists is really good and FTT-worthy. AHeneen (talk) 04:23, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

The method of thinking I've employed when making recommendations for this page is that between the months of November and March (or maybe even October and April, depending on latitude), the temperate regions of the Northern Hemisphere are unfeatureable on the front page—which necessarily limits the Featured Destinations for those months to the tropics and the Southern Hemisphere (or, perhaps, to winter destinations such as ski resorts).

Conversely, during the warmer months in the Northern Hemisphere, I've tried to push as hard as possible for tropical or Southern Hemisphere destinations not to be featured, so that we can accommodate worthy Northern Hemisphere destinations that otherwise might have had to wait till next year.

Of course, the foregoing is far less true for FTTs than for DotMs and OtBPs, so in the particular case of this article your point is fairly well taken. But it's my understanding that, as far as Australia goes, the Outback sees far less tourist traffic in general than the more climatically moderate areas. You mentioned driving through the Red Centre from the east coast to the west coast, but I wonder how many visitors to Australia don't confine themselves to one side of the country even with a car at their disposal, just for the sake of logistics. The article already discusses at considerable length the perils of driving through the Outback in the heat and rain of the summer. Given that, and the aforementioned fact that much of the rest of the world is off limits as Featured Destinations during these months, I don't know that I'd be in complete agreement with you that the "Northern Hemisphere winter [is] the least preferable time" to feature this article as FTT.

-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:02, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

I can sympathize with the lack of nominees, and this can be featured if there's no suitable candidates, but it's the "Time to feature" in the nomination template that's the issue. Summer isn't the best time to visit much of the country. Sydney is temperate year-round & Melbourne is warm in summer...most of the coastal plain around Victoria & NSW is nice to visit year-round, except higher elevations are cool-cold in winter. Elsewhere though, summer isn't pleasant. The tropics will be hot & very humid & wet, with the wet season ending around March. Queensland will be hot everywhere, wet in the north (Cairns), & humid along the coasts. For the Brisbane page: "Just about any outdoor activity you do at the height of a regular summer day in Brisbane will leave you bathed in sweat...Summer storms with hail and heavy rainfall are common in afternoons on hot humid days." Perth & Adelaide are hot. Plus, IMO, probably around half of travelers driving in Australia will be heading to/through some region that will be unpleasant (or even dangerously hot) in summer, whether it's a visit to a rural park Victoria/NSW to see kangaroos in the wild; driving long distances across the desert/Outback to Perth, Darwin, or Alice Springs; or to visit the tropics around Cairns. The best times to feature will probably be Mar-May or Sep-Oct, leaving out the winter when Tasmania & the Southeast will be cool (or cold in the mountains). There are a few Aussies around here, hopefully one of them can offer advice. AHeneen (talk) 23:45, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Would March be a suitable compromise, in your opinion? That's a month in which I would still be extremely hesitant to see a Northern Hemisphere destination featured—and, given what you said, it seems as if by then the worst of the summer heat will have been over in northern Australia, while winter will not yet have begun in the higher elevations and the far south. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:42, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Needs cleanup- this article has a serious repetition issue, and having driven a lot of what is mentioned, I find the blocks of text without separating into smaller sections distracting to say the least. As to the 'generalisations' about the outback, they are are somewhat problematic - In Australia the animals on the road, and road conditions are very varied, and there should be a clearer distinction between country roads in the respective regions, given the wikivoyage preference for conflating regions against geographic realities, the regions within states are worth considering in respect to their road conditions...

As to timing - hey, we have in Australia currently enough unseasonal climate variation to make most of the discussion potentially redundant - at the current range of climactic variability it is like the other generic one size fits all statements in the article, however AHeneen has hit on some of what might be statistically close in a probability sense - that given the current weather patterns, March - May, and September - October might just not be too uncomfortable, for most of Australia. Also the tempering an article like this for an assumed 'most comfortable time' is dangerous - times of discomfort are potentially times for certain of visitors - the News South Wales and Victorian snowfields for instance, Northern Territory at the break of the the buildup and the beginning of the wet season - are times that some visitors are actually interested in - and each of those require very specific driving skills in the conditions... Perth - where I am currently living is having a heatwave of 40 degrees centigrade or close - however there are amazing conditions for water sports - on the coastline... I would thoroughly recommend wind boarders to get on here now... however the assumption of what sort of visitor you think we are describing things to is really far more complex than simply 'a traveller' - the range of potential variants as to visit time is not just an 'average' - there could be people wanting to check out parts of Tasmania at what are considered 'bad' conditions elsewhere... It might need some more thought in this area I think, and discussion. sats (talk) 10:02, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Given what you said above, I agree that it's likely pointless to talk about a "good" or "bad" time to feature this article, excepting perhaps times when roads are totally impassable. (After all, the one commonality among those interested in this article is that they will be travelling by car in Australia.) In that respect, would you agree that May seems like a fair time to feature the article?

Speaking to the other concerns you voiced, as a resident of Australia, there's perhaps no one on this thread more qualified than you, Sats, to plunge forward!

-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 22:27, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Across Canada by train

Article status: Guide (must be guide or above). Time to feature: Apr-Oct Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 22:57, 1 January 2013 (UTC) Comment: For me personally, a trip across Canada by train is definitely on my bucket list. This article has exhaustive information about the practicalities of travelling across such a large country, and a nice (if substantially less exhaustive) overview of the places the trains pass through. There are a few red links to pictures that haven't been transferred to Wikimedia Commons yet, which are of course easily fixable. Overall, I think this would be great to put on our front page and to knock another ? off the schedule.

Nomination Canada is the second largest country on earth, yet vast areas are either sparsely populated or completely uninhabited. While most Canadians choose to travel between major cities by plane, there still exists a continuous series of trans-contintenal passenger trains in Canada, and a trip on them remains one of the greatest railway journeys in the world. This itinerary explains how to book, travel and experience Canada's passenger rail services.

• Support. I got some good use out of this one recently. It has a good base of content and really nice presentation. --Peter ^Talk 09:26, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
• Support Really good and helpful. jan (talk) 15:37, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
• Support - well done, and well presented sats (talk) 02:34, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
• Support. Beautiful, very informative article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:29, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Kolyma Highway

Article status: Usable (must be guide or above). Time to feature: July-August Nominated by: --Stefan (sertmann) talk Comment: I seriously love this itinerary for an extremely unusual destination. It's very informative, thoroughly enticing (at least to adventurers like me), witty and well written, so I'd really want to see it featured. Though, realistically, there is no way we can get all the stops up to usable status. Is there room for a compromise, where we temporarily delink the cities, and bump it to guide status during a feature?

Nomination Blurb to be added if there is support for a compromise

• Oppose. I don't remember there being any rule about FTTs that states that each stop on an itinerary must be at Usable status. However, the fact remains that the article itself needs to be Guide or better in order to go on the front page. I think it's a great destination, but realistically there's nowhere near enough content in this article to justify bumping it up to Guide status as it is now. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:20, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
• Support. This is by far the best existing guide to this route/region, and would therefore make a good showcase of what we do, despite the lack of "completeness" found in our guide-status articles. If that means making an exception to our guide status rule, I think that's OK in this exceptional case. And there is actually a fair amount of very interesting content in those linked destination/points. --Peter ^Talk 23:48, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose for now. I'm concerned about the number of red links in "Go" and "Go next." I'd also love to see more photos. If some progress could be made on both fronts - more blue links and more photos - I would be OK with running this article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:04, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Northern Lights

Article status: Usable (must be guide or above). Time to feature: November-March Nominated by: --Peter Talk 18:21, 7 March 2013 (UTC) Comment: I'm going to be cheeky and nominate another usable topic. We really should feature the Northern Lights this year, as the solar cycle is slated to peak around August. We'd be doing the travel world a favor to alert everyone to this fact. I had the fortune to spend some frigid four hours on the tundra outside Churchill last November watching a geomagnetic storm, and it was possibly the most amazing thing I've ever experienced! So yes, it's only at usable status, but we absolutely should feature it—let me know what additions/fixes should be made, and I'll make them.

Nomination Our current 11-year solar cycle peaks this year, making late 2013 the best time in a decade in either direction to see the most astonishing natural phenomenon in the world. Arrange your flights, purchase your cold-weather gear, and ready your photography equipment!

• Comment: I, personally, am extremely wary of the precedent set by having not one but two nominees on the featured article list that are technically ineligible. That being the case, this article is not far from Guide status. I imagine that given the recommended time to feature, there's plenty of time for one or more dedicated editors to bring this article up to the usual standards (the same is true of Kolyma Highway as well, come to think of it). -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:53, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

• That is certainly a problem, but on the other hand the Lights are cyclic and the upcoming autumn or winter would be the best time in a decade to feature them. Can we get the article into really good shape by then? Should we consider making this article the Collaboration of the Month sometime soon as a way of doing that? Would anyone here care to contribute? I've done a little, but it needs more. Pashley (talk) 17:35, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

• Support. It's a beautiful article with great photos. A map will be useful, but I'm not really clear on why it isn't classed as a guide already. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:14, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

• Support. For this spring it is a little too late, but think this article should appear as featured in September - after all this should be a year of solar maximum. Until then there can be lots of work done on further improving it (I hope I could contribute, too). --Danapit (talk) 09:26, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

September will be a bit early to per "Time to feature", but a November appearance would be great. I repeat what I said earlier: this article doesn't need much work to be bumped up to Guide; in fact, as Ikan Kekek said, a strong argument could be made that it's already at that level. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 09:45, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

I in part nominated this despite being at usable because I wasn't sure what else was needed to bump it to guide (I think this is now being addressed at Talk:Northern Lights#Upgrade to guide?), but will do whatever is needed to get it ready for a feature. Also, I know we like to plan features to coincide with the best time to visit, but I've never really understood the rationale that well. Wouldn't "best time to plan/book" be a better way of serving the needs of travelers. Late November will be a fantastic time to see the lights this year, but you'd better plan a little ahead of time for a difficult trip to the far north! --Peter ^Talk 14:41, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

I think that the best time for auroras is Sept/Oct [5], that's why I suggested September. But off course November is fine, too. --Danapit (talk) 16:25, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

The advantage to waiting later (for watchers, not necessarily us) is that the nights grow very long starting in November. A spectacular geomagnetic event is wasted if the sun is shining! --Peter ^Talk 21:00, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

• Support Makes me want to see it. jan (talk) 08:52, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

• Support It would be better with a map showing the prime areas (or two, North & South), but other than that it looks ready to me. Pashley (talk) 15:12, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

I have added a map, more photos and quite a bit of text, and I have not been the only active editor. I have bumped the status to Guide and think it is now quite close to Star. There is one open issue, though: see Talk:Northern_Lights#More_destinations_and_improve_destinations.

It now has my unreserved support for featured travel topic. Pashley (talk)

• Comment on date: The nomination suggests "November-March", which is indeed the best time to go. However, I think we should feature it earlier, perhaps in August or September; this is a trip that needs planning and preparation, so we should suggest it well before it is time to go. Pashley (talk) 16:13, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

I 100% support Pashley's suggestion. I would be inclined to feature the article in September (or even August, because travel topics appear on 21st) also because late Sep/Oct is a good time for observation already, if one doesn't mind to stay up a bit longer. Danapit (talk) 16:24, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

For whatever it's worth, I saw the Northern Lights in Lenox, Massachusetts one summer, and they were amazing, though not as colorful as photos I've seen of them from further north. So they do occur any time, and you don't necessarily have to go into Arctic or Subarctic regions (or their southern equivalents) to see them. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:39, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Chicago skyline guide

Article status: Star (must be guide or above). Time to feature: April–October Nominated by: --Peter Talk 22:08, 10 May 2013 (UTC) Comment: This was our first star topic, back when we didn't have a travel topic feature. I updated it thoroughly at the end of 2012, including all the images, to keep it up-to-date following major construction (and cancellation of some planned buildings).

Nomination Chicago's skyline is one of the world's tallest and easily ranks among its most magnificent. It boasts three of America's five tallest buildings and, if you include its antenna, the massive Sears Tower remains the second tallest skyscraper in the world.

• Support. How can I say no? If it's worthy of a star, it's worthy of being featured! And it's got an awesome banner image to boot! PerryPlanet (talk) 22:14, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

As an aside Peter, I hope you're prepared for the inevitable heartbreak of One World Trade Center taking the Sears Tower's title of North America's tallest building. ;) PerryPlanet (talk) 22:16, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Ack, I didn't realize they were going to surpass even the antenna! Now it's even more sad that the Chicago Spire wasn't built :( --Peter ^Talk 22:22, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Oh hey, speak of the devil! PerryPlanet (talk) 22:29, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support. Star > featured topic, so what Perry said. -- Ryan • (talk) • 22:40, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support I guess with star articles, the only question is when to feature the article, but while there are times of year with better or worse weather in Chicago, the skyline is always there and there are always reasons for people to travel to that great city. If we're going to feature it at a time of good weather, I'd suggest excepting the most miserable summer months as well as the most miserable winter months, but other than that, full steam ahead! Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:51, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I must confess I've yet to experience any miserable summer months (maybe because my hometown has genuinely awful summer weather). It's the time of the year where you can go down to the beach, swim out and lie on your back, looking right up at the subject of this guide! --Peter ^Talk 21:00, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes you can, and I don't have a very strong opinion about that, anyway. Chicago can be visited any time of year except when snow actually prevents people from arriving. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:49, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

• Support. For architecture buffs like myself, there are few more interesting articles on Wikivoyage. Well-written and comprehensive as well. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:28, 14 May 2013 (UTC)