Talk:Palestinian territories/Archive 2003-2012

Lessee... Taiwan, Jammu-Kashmir, now Palestine. Great. Well, I guess we should have seen this coming. Anyone have any ideas what to do about this? -- (WT-en) Evan 16:48, 7 Nov 2003 (PST)

Israeli Occupied Territories

So, most newscasters and papers in the US call these areas the "Israeli Occupied Territories". Perhaps a more suitable name than "Palestinian Territories"? --(WT-en) Evan 19:09, 21 Jan 2004 (EST)

Quite a few people around here call them "Palestinian Territories", but you also hear the term you mention. (Although I wonder if that also includes the Golan Heights, since Israel took it from Syria). I don't really have a preference here, and anyway it's a very tricky and sensitive thing. If you want to move the page, be my guest :-) (WT-en) DhDh 19:29, 21 Jan 2004 (EST)

Tips

Sorry but most of those "tips" were just silly and obviously POV (e.g. the idea that Rachel Corrie was run over "by accident" is an obviously false propaganda line the Israeli military has been trying to spin from the begining). Do not argue with cab drivers?!? How silly. Have done that lots of times. The west bank is like the wild west? Please. Do not engage in political conversation?!? EH?!? It's very hard not to when in Palestine. Rachel Corrie's parents were not almost kidnapped (see http://www.orscp.org/more.php?id=146_0_1_0_M ). Jews go into Palestine all the time without being "beaten" - I know one married to a Palestinian who lives in Ramallah.

Get a grip. - Asa

Cjensen said in Summary box: (→Stay Safe - Restore water comment unless you have a reference on that. Anectotal evidence is not reliable in this matter.)

Whatever mate - I thought the whole point of this wiki was for travelers to share their experiences? Seems to me that the person who wrote that not been in Palestine. Furthermore you contradict yourself: what is "Beware of local water, including ice cubes - bottled is the way to go" if not anecdotal? Such advice applies in (e.g.) Egypt, but not Palestine for whatever reasons.

It is reliable, because in two separete trips in a total of three months, I know of no-one who got ill from drinking tap water, and I met a LOT of people there from outside the region. So unless you have a reference to show the water is unsafe I suggest this version.

If you must have a reference: http://www.palguide.com/information.htm says nothing whatever about unsafe water.

More importantly, why did you restore all that other nonsense, when I've clearly refuted it on this page? You haven't even attempted to justify that. - Asa

Greetings Asa! Welcome to wikivoyage. It might help the conversation if you could create a user account so you'll get a proper welcome and can sign your changes & comments.

While wikis are indeed a great way to 'share experiences', here we're hoping to put together objective travel guides. Obviously every traveller's experience is unique , but we try and make our information as generally applicable as possible, hence the request for a reference.

I think it's important to note that this can be a tricky article to cover so we tend to scrutinize edits-- especially from anonymous IP addresses. I hope you get a chance to look at and contribute to some of our other guides! (WT-en) Majnoona 10:23, 1 March 2006 (EST)

Suppose you were in a country with untreated water. It does not surprise me in the least that the residents and some visitors have no problems with it. The problem is that untreated water has the potential to really ruin a trip. If even one in a dozen visitors is unlucky enough to get a rare bacteria from the water, his trip is shot. Avoiding tap water is just not that hard; and if it safeguards an important once-in-a-lifetime trip, then we should err on the side of caution.

Plus I've lost track of how many times I've seen someone edit out a warning while saying "I had no problems with the water, you guys must be wrong." Or "I drank the water for four years and didn't get sick." Getting used to the local flora is not the same thing as saying the flora does not exist. Or perhaps a person was getting sick every few months and was blaming the illness on food quality or general illness. As I result of this, I think we need to really discount anecdotal evidence when we have ANY reports to the contrary and no supporting evidence that the water is treated.

Regarding the other changes you made, you might check more carefully: I left them in. I merged the one change I wanted back and left everything else you did alone. Someone else might change it, but since I had no opinion on the matter I kept my hands off :-). Cheers. -- (WT-en) Colin 17:23, 1 March 2006 (EST)

Warning section

Someone reverted deleted the warning box as "Unsourced POV Propaganda". I've reverted the deletion based on the State Department's Warnings and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office's Warnings.

Some of the warnings:

We also advise against all travel to the Gaza strip because of the threat of kidnap. The Palestinian security forces have advised us that there is a particularly high threat against British nationals. On 23 October 2006, a Spanish cameraman was kidnapped and held for 13 hours. British nationals have been kidnapped and held for up to two weeks in previous incidents, the most recent in December 2005. -- Foreign and Commonwealth Office

We advise against all but essential travel to the West Bank. There is a particularly high kidnap threat against British nationals. There have been a large number of demonstrations in Ramallah and elsewhere since March 2006, some of which have turned violent. For immediate, specific information about planned demonstrations or any other events which may affect the local security situation, you should register with the Consulate-General in Jerusalem. -- Foreign and Commonwealth Office

The uncertain security conditions within the West Bank and Gaza continue as well, with the potential for violent protests, kidnappings, including of foreign nationals, and fighting between various armed factions. Daily inter-Palestinian violence in the Gaza Strip has spread to the West Bank. An American citizen was kidnapped and held captive for several hours by armed militants in the West Bank in June 2006. - United States Department of State

I'd rather err on the side of the travellers' safety than not. -- (WT-en) Andrew H. (Sapphire) 13:40, 28 October 2006 (EDT)

This article had two identical warning boxes, so I removed the one that seemed to be in the wrong place (regions). I don't have a problem with several warning boxes in the same article but identical ones are pointless.(WT-en) Jake73 11:09, 12 January 2007 (EST)

Ha! I thought there was some much more complicated explanation. I guess I could have figured that out myself. That's what I get for just looking at the diffs. Thanks for being a sport. --(WT-en) evanp 11:31, 12 January 2007 (EST)

Kidnapping?

Are there any examples of Jews being kidnapped in Palestine for wearing Star of David necklaces? If you can't produce that evidence, then that warning really needs to be taken from the page. It sounds like racist POV to me.

I've never been to Palestine, but I have a lot of friends who have gone (including Jewish people). The notion that Palestine is a no man's land where the local people are looking for foreigners to kidnap seems pretty wrong, and frankly, racist to me. And regarding the governments that issue warnings to their citizens about travel to Palestine, it's worth noting that the governments cited (British and American) are supporters of Isreal, and the US is constantly demonizing Palestinian society. Maybe that's why the State Department warns US citizens, because it's own personnel are in danger when they travel to Palestine, given the US government's hostility toward it.(WT-en) Khuryps 22:59, 17 November 2007 (EST)

Kidnapping in the West Bank and Gaza are a new phenomenon, but regrettably a real one. Here's a partial list. (WT-en) Jpatokal 06:31, 22 May 2008 (EDT)