User talk:(WT-en) Nickgudewill

Hello Nickgudewill! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Project:Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub. It looks like you work in the travel industry. Great! Please read Project:Welcome, business owners. You can really improve the site, but it's important to understand what contributions are appropriate.

It also looks like you live in British Columbia. Great! So do I, and there's a lot of room for improving Wikivoyage's coverage of this part of the world. (WT-en) JimDeLaHunt 19:46, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

Promoting travel agencies on Wikivoyage

I notice that you've put in listings promoting the Exposure travel service on a dozen or so articles today. I'm concerned that those listings aren't very helpful to travellers, and serve mostly to advertise the Exposure travel service. This isn't the best way to contribute to Wikivoyage. It violates the guidelines in Project:Don't tout. I expect many other Wikivoyage contributors may regard it as linkspam. In general our Project:External links policy is to only link to the official web site of a destination, and not to travel booking services. I would appreciate it if you would review the Project:Manual of style, remove all those Exposure travel entries, and where appropriate put in specific listings for specific expeditions with addresses, phone numbers, costs, and destinations. You already did the right thing by making these edits under a clear user name. I'm willing to work with you on improving articles. However, I'm also ready to delete linkspam from any travel provider. Thank you, and I look forward to your contributions to Wikivoyage! (WT-en) JimDeLaHunt 19:46, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

I see you went ahead and added promotions of the Exposure travel service to more articles on April 26th (here, here, etc.). So I in turn went ahead and deleted all paragraphs mentioning Exposure travel service, because it looks to me like they all violated the Project:Don't tout guidelines. Again, I'd like to see you make contributions to Wikivoyage, and I'd really rather work with you to find contributions that work for Wikivoyage's readers. Please feel free to post a reply here; I'll see it. (WT-en) JimDeLaHunt 00:59, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

Jim, this is my first time contributing to Wikivoyage. I am aware of Wikivoyage's guidelines and my honest intention was to be factual (not promoting) about Exposure and simply let readers know that there is another option out there for them when it comes to travelling within British Columbia. I obviously failed at this as I struggled to get to the correct tone. Would you be willing to work with me to contribute an article about Exposure that fits within the guidelines? I, too, want to improve Wikivoyage's coverage of this part of the world. Thank you in advance for your assistance. --(WT-en) Nickgudewill 01:46, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

Nick, welcome to WikiTravel, and of course I'm glad to work with you. Here are some suggestions.

1. Improve destination articles with suggestions of what to do there (independent of Exposure's services). You mentioned Big Sky Golf and Country Club[1]. Describe it at Pemberton (British Columbia)#Do. You mention the M.V. Pacific Yellowfin[2]. Describe it at Southern Gulf Islands#Do. Use the listing entity:

* <do name="" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price=""></do>,

or click on the "Add listing" link in an article. Filling in those fields will help you make the coverage complete.

2. Think of specific trips that only Exposure can do. Take a specific starting point and specific activity. Put in specific times and prices. One flaw with your previous contributions was that they weren't specific about price, destination, contact information, etc. Fill out a listing (same format as above) and put it in the starting point's article.

3. Heed Project:Words to avoid. Describe the destination and the activity, not the deliverer or the customer. "merges adventure and luxury" isn't specific. "a niche group of travel connoisseurs who demand exquisite, authentic and meaningful experiences" describes the customer, not the activity.

4. Fill in your user page, User:(WT-en) Nickgudewill. Acknowledge your role at Exposure; even link to your bio page there. Being up-front and transparent about that connection (and any conflicts of interest it brings) enhances your credibility.

5. If you would like advice from a wider group of Wikivoyage participants, feel free to post questions at Project:Travellers' pub. My advice may may not be helpful, but I'm just one voice of many at Wikivoyage.

If you'd like to run something by me, you could post it here and I'd be glad to comment. In any case, there's many ways to contribute, and I'm sure you'll settle one that works for you and Wikivoyage. Welcome. (WT-en) JimDeLaHunt 19:25, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

Hi Jim, I'm sorry it's taken a little while to get back to you. Below is my first draft of a general description of the kind of travel we offer. I would like to run it by you before I post so you can let me know if the language is suitable. Thanks in advance for your help:

"For high end experiences, Exposure specializes in luxury adventure travel within British Columbia. They offer a number of suggested itineraries, but primarily tailor private trips made especially to fit your group of family, friends or colleagues. A signature trip will send you on a yachting adventure aboard the Pacific Yellowfin to explore tiny island ports and navigate the narrow waterways of BC's coastline that the cruise lines can't get to."

I want to fill in a user page for Exposure as well but I'm not sure where to do that. Please advise. -- User:(WT-en) Nickgudewill, 09:37, 2008 July 3 [signature added by (WT-en) JimDeLaHunt)

Nick: welcome back! Thank you for working with the community! I'm confident you have a lot to offer. (WT-en) JimDeLaHunt 01:43, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

As far as a user page for Exposure goes, perhaps the simplest choise is to make User:(WT-en) Nickgudewill the user page for Exposure, and just put some information there about yourself and Exposure and its role as a travel agent. A bit more work but perhaps more long-term stable is to create a new user ID for Exposure. Call it "Exposure Travel", and disclose that it's the corporate voice of the company on Wikivoyage. Then User:(WT-en) Nickgudewill can be your personal voice. (WT-en) JimDeLaHunt 01:43, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

As far as the paragraph above goes, I'd say my feedback is that it's all about Exposure and not about the destination or the traveller. It has little specifics about a particular destination. Try this. Imagine one tiny island port, and a trip out of that port to one specific narrow waterway. Write up that trip as a "Do" listing. Use the "Activities" format below, i.e. * <do name="" ...></do>. Fill in Exposure name, phone number, the address of the embarkation point, the price, all the specifics the format calls for. Keep it concise and factual. Avoid flowery language like "a signature trip". Your purpose is to inform travellers what they can do, not to arouse a desire to buy your service. (WT-en) JimDeLaHunt 01:43, 4 July 2008 (EDT)

Have you read Project:Words to avoid, Project:Don't tout, and Project:Welcome, tourism professionals? Those have some good guidance, I think. (WT-en) JimDeLaHunt 01:43, 4 July 2008 (EDT)