Talk:Aktau

Aktau is an extremely small and out-of-the-way type of place. Wikivoyage is based on Lonely Planet's Guidebooks, which have two different sections for Get In and Get Out. It is hard to imagine any significant number of travelers entering Aktau by one method of transportation and exiting by another. Putting separate sections for getting in and out of Aktau is superfluous for a city that has two daily trains, one weekly "ferry" and no more than a dozen flights per day. On top of that, there is no real inter-city bus service to anywhere, notwithstanding those to even more remote outposts in the desert.

If someone really insists on Get In and Get Out sections, I will simply restate Get In and Get Out while wasting space on Wiki's servers. The terms suggest that one cannot get out the same way he/she got in, which is extremely rare in the case of a city. I understand that countries operate differently as some borders are closed in one direction while others are open in the other direction, or exit procedures can be different from those procedures for entering.

For Aktau, the sections should be left together for reasons of brevity.

(WT-en) Telamon 08 00:44, 31 October 2010 (EDT)Telamon 08

The "Get Out" section is actually meant to list other destinations that are nearby. It is not meant to repeat the information in the Get In section, because for almost any location, the ways to get in are also the ways to get out. People are often confused about the meaning of "Get out" on Wikivoyage.

You can refer to the "Get Out" section of these articles for further clarification:

If you don't want to write text, you can just list them like Tsuyama.

If the text is copied from Lonely Planet, please point out the text, because copied text should be removed. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 02:50, 31 October 2010 (EDT)

Or, if there is really nothing else that could be said apart from what is already said at "get in", and there is really no logical next destination other than the one you entered in, simply say so in that section, as it's extremely rare to find such destinations, and an empty section may make readers think that it's not yet written (as all wiki articles are in some state of "under construction" process) rather than that there is no next destination. E.g., something like (quoting Jon from the initial message) "Other than buses to even more remote outposts in the desert, Aktau is an extremely out-of-the-way type of place, so getting out of town usually means backtracking to the direction you've come in." would do.

By the way, while patrolling the edits to this article, I've made a google check against possible copyvios, but got no exact matches. I think Jon refers to general layout of the articles when he was saying that Wikivoyage is based on Lonely Planet books. – (WT-en) Vidimian 07:44, 31 October 2010 (EDT)

To further clarify the difference between "Get in" and "Get out": Article's get in section lists flights from as far away as Moscow and Istanbul. Sure, you could take a plane out to Moscow at the end of your trip, but that isn't really a logical "next stop", so that doesn't go into "Get out". However, trains to Atyrau might be mentioned at "Get out", and then it could go on telling about arranging trips further on to Astrakhan. – (WT-en) Vidimian 08:08, 31 October 2010 (EDT)

Thank you for the clarifications. Firstly, none of the information on this page has been taken from any other source without linking to it.

Secondly, I will try to get more information for these small towns in Western Kazakhstan, which can fill a 'Get Out' section.

Third, as a native English speaker, I would contest that Get Out is not only crude but also misleading. A better way to phrase it would be Around Aktau, or (in the case of border towns) Border Crossings. Many potential employees ask about other things here, which is why I wrote so extensively and tried to be as professional and thorough as possible.

(WT-en) Telamon 08 11:26, 31 October 2010 (EDT)

On a new note, DO NOT remove the external links to official government websites about the region. The links do not violate Wiki policy, and the pictures on those websites are great. I am becoming very annoyed with this. If you want to waste my time, at least give me some explanation for it! —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Telamon 08 (talk • contribs)

That shrine is a good start for "get out", thanks for adding it. "Get out" is a header that many users find problematic, see (and join if you'd like to) the discussion at Project:Article templates#Get out.2C again (which also has links to older discussions on the same subject scattered around various talk pages throughout the site). And I was the one removing the links—without the slightest intention of wasting your time (why would I do that?)—and left an edit summary each time I did so (you can check them at the revision history of the article). I've checked www.portaktau.kz, and thought it wasn't an official government site (there was no indication of that as far as I could see). If it is an official site, though, it qualifies to be added to the article (please see Project:External links for more on this policy), and per convention, it is best to add it just after the very first word of the article, i.e. Aktau (you can take a look at Washington, D.C. for an example of this). However, link to Wikipedia article about the Ukrainian poet is totally out, as per Project:Links to Wikipedia.

Oh, and if there is any text directly copied from some other source in the article (whether linked to or not), please point it out and/or remove it. Text from other sites following the terms of CC-by-sa 3.0 license is OK, but legal issues dictate that we need to attribute that properly.

All in all, this article is turning out to be a good one—those potential employees are lucky to have you as a pioneer. :-) – (WT-en) Vidimian 12:34, 31 October 2010 (EDT)

I'm glad that we've been able to come to an understanding! I will try to fix these things as I get better information. Wikivoyage is a great website for this kind of information for daily living, which is useful for both work and travel. Jon95.58.37.156 14:12, 31 October 2010 (EDT)

directions to and from the ferry port and train station

Aktau is usually a transit destination, and for so much writen it's strange nobody has information about the bus number to mangyshlak station, and the ferry port......