Talk:Congress (Ohio)
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[edit]I put this page together and I'm not sure why it should be deleted. Congress doesn't have the things to do like eat, drink, and play golf, but it is a nice relaxing place to hang out to get away from things. My main purpose was to get locals to put together more. Do what you must, but don't expect me to contribute anything in the future, if this is what you're going to do to my contributions.
- This is a travel guide, so you're going to have to come up with some reason for a traveller to go there -- if they can't eat, drink, sleep or see anything, then why bother? But please chip in at Project:Votes for deletion#Congress, there's still two weeks to go until the article's fate is decided. (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:02, 15 October 2006 (EDT)
- Please add to the discussion on Project:Votes_for_deletion#Congress. I am in agreement with you, but we have a policy that says; "A common test to determine whether a subject gets its own article is the "can you sleep there?" test" in Project:What_is_an_article?. It is my belief that every small place could and should have an article. People do travel to cities, towns and villages that have no hotels or motels. I did add a sleep place nearby for Congress and it is my hope the article is not deleted. I am biased about the policy so I don't normally vote to keep these places, but I do add information so they are kept. I do hope you will stick around and help with content on Wikivoyage and please don't take the request for deletion as personal. Add your reasons for keeping in Project:Votes_for_deletion#Congress and I think you may be successful. Thanks. -- (WT-en) Tom Holland (xltel) 08:05, 15 October 2006 (EDT)
- I'm sorry Tom and anonymous, but I really don't think we're going to be able to save this page even if our lives depended on it. As Wikipedia notes "the village has a total area of 0.4 km² (0.2 mi²)." It's kind of hard to make a travel guide out of any place that small. I'll be glad to retract any of my objections if we can make an actual guide out of this place, but even the sole accommodation listing in Congress isn't even located in the proper guide. -- (WT-en) Sapphire 08:56, 15 October 2006 (EDT)
If you want to delete the article, I understand. I know there's nothing of substance there. I've been there a number of times. It is a nice place to visit and park and relax because there is nothing there. I guess there are many places in Ohio and the World like that, so sticking to the tourists traps with the glitter and glame may be better. I have an issue with articles like Mansfield, OH, that is just an outline and nothing more. Lets start working on articles like that because Mansfield does have alot to offer travelers.
vfd discussion
[edit]Archived from the Project:Votes for deletion page:
Apparently fails the can you sleep there test . Also, the Wayne County CVB lists no attractions in Congress. I suggest deleting this page and then include any sights or activities within the Wayne County regional page. -- (WT-en) Sapphire 20:16, 14 October 2006 (EDT)- Keep. The can-you-sleep-there test is as much about being the kind of place where one can sleep -- villages yes, malls no -- as whether there is an actual hotel. See North Dakota for all sorts of precedents for keeping places like this one. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 21:34, 14 October 2006 (EDT)
There's one huge difference between North Dakota and Ohio. North Dakota is the 4th least populated state so smaller villages like Congress may actually be a destination in North Dakota, but villages of this size in Ohio are far less likely to be a destination. After searching multiple resources I cannot believe this village would be anything more than part of the landscape during a Sunday drive.Todd Ver Beek apparently has similar opinions since I quote him: "A small town or "census designated region" without lodging, restaurants, and/or identifiable attractions. (Info about these is usually best incorporated into an article covering a larger region.)" See more of his thoughts here - Wikivoyage_talk:What_is_an_article?#What_MIGHT_NOT_get_its_own_article.3F. -- (WT-en) Sapphire 00:03, 15 October 2006 (EDT)- I am not sure why that small places in North Dakota would be more likely visited then small places anywhere else in the world. The most common reason small places are visited are because you have relative or friend there. I also believe we have room on Wikivoyage for small places, for sure if we have someone excited about creating information on the place. Ask your self this before voting to delete; If you had a friend or relative in in Congress and were going there to visit, wouldn't it be a travel destination for you? How small it too small? If I visit a relative there and sleep in their house, is that a place to sleep? Just the ramblings of someone who was born in a small town and loves to visit them. -- (WT-en) Tom Holland (xltel) 09:22, 15 October 2006 (EDT)
- I do have relatives that I visit quite often in a very small town called Owensville, Clermont County, Ohio, but I would never create an article for Owensville because though it has 700 more residents than Congress does and is twice the size (0.4 square miles) of Congress it doesn't need an article. The eat/drink sections would be populated with the three gas stations in the town, and "see" would list "cows and corn". I could imagine cow tipping might fit under "do", but let's get real if there is nothing to do or see in the town there's no reason for the place to have an article on Wikivoyage. I have to argue if you have a relative's house to stay at the best option for you is to ask them what to do in the town and I'll bet if you have a relative in Congress they're going to say "Umm, cow tipping?" Owensville and Congress both belong in the respective parental regional guides. Seriously though, the anonymous user that created the page summed Congress up as "Congress doesn't have the things to do like eat, drink, and play golf, but it is a nice relaxing place to hang out to get away from things" can we not place Congress in the Wayne County guide and use his discription? If this was Wikiatlas I'd be all for Congress, but it's not Wikiatlas and we don't make a guide for every place that exists for the sole purpose census calculations. -- (WT-en) Sapphire 09:49, 15 October 2006 (EDT)
- Possibly a good rule of thumb for places like this is "would you ever want to go there if you didn't know someone who lived there (who could presumably offer better information than any guidebook)". If the answer's no, it seems hard to see what purpose an article could possibly serve. --(WT-en) Paul. 13:25, 15 October 2006 (EDT)
- Whether or not it's a "good" rule of thumb, it isn't a current criterion, and I would not presume to judge whether readers "want to go there." Either it's a destination or it's not, and by the criteria that we do use, it is. I repeat: Keep. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 19:54, 15 October 2006 (EDT)
- After reading over the policy there is nothing to indicate that current policy indicates this is a destination nor is there anything that say's it's not a destination. I'd like to clear that up immediately and discuss that here. -- (WT-en) Sapphire 20:44, 15 October 2006 (EDT)
- Whether or not it's a "good" rule of thumb, it isn't a current criterion, and I would not presume to judge whether readers "want to go there." Either it's a destination or it's not, and by the criteria that we do use, it is. I repeat: Keep. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 19:54, 15 October 2006 (EDT)
- Possibly a good rule of thumb for places like this is "would you ever want to go there if you didn't know someone who lived there (who could presumably offer better information than any guidebook)". If the answer's no, it seems hard to see what purpose an article could possibly serve. --(WT-en) Paul. 13:25, 15 October 2006 (EDT)
- I do have relatives that I visit quite often in a very small town called Owensville, Clermont County, Ohio, but I would never create an article for Owensville because though it has 700 more residents than Congress does and is twice the size (0.4 square miles) of Congress it doesn't need an article. The eat/drink sections would be populated with the three gas stations in the town, and "see" would list "cows and corn". I could imagine cow tipping might fit under "do", but let's get real if there is nothing to do or see in the town there's no reason for the place to have an article on Wikivoyage. I have to argue if you have a relative's house to stay at the best option for you is to ask them what to do in the town and I'll bet if you have a relative in Congress they're going to say "Umm, cow tipping?" Owensville and Congress both belong in the respective parental regional guides. Seriously though, the anonymous user that created the page summed Congress up as "Congress doesn't have the things to do like eat, drink, and play golf, but it is a nice relaxing place to hang out to get away from things" can we not place Congress in the Wayne County guide and use his discription? If this was Wikiatlas I'd be all for Congress, but it's not Wikiatlas and we don't make a guide for every place that exists for the sole purpose census calculations. -- (WT-en) Sapphire 09:49, 15 October 2006 (EDT)
- I am not sure why that small places in North Dakota would be more likely visited then small places anywhere else in the world. The most common reason small places are visited are because you have relative or friend there. I also believe we have room on Wikivoyage for small places, for sure if we have someone excited about creating information on the place. Ask your self this before voting to delete; If you had a friend or relative in in Congress and were going there to visit, wouldn't it be a travel destination for you? How small it too small? If I visit a relative there and sleep in their house, is that a place to sleep? Just the ramblings of someone who was born in a small town and loves to visit them. -- (WT-en) Tom Holland (xltel) 09:22, 15 October 2006 (EDT)
- Merge and delete to Wayne County. --(WT-en) Terence Ong 02:54, 15 October 2006 (EDT)
- Keep. I think a discussion should be raised in general about wtf are we going to do with every little crossroads and where to split the gray areas. In the meantime it looks like a place for now, though the article should be mostly empty. Content for Sleep, for example, should just point to nearest town with a motel. -- (WT-en) Colin 04:05, 16 October 2006 (EDT)
- Keep. My, you guys have been having a good old time on this! I love you all, even those who are wrong(tm). (WT-en) OldPine 19:43, 17 October 2006 (EDT)
- The problem I have is that there isn't even a vague defination of destination and my big concern is that people are miscontsruing "place" to mean "destination". There are very big differences between a place and a destination. Please help me define what the definition of "destination". I truly believe Congress is not a destination because 1. There are no accommodations in Congress, there are no eateries, there are no bars, there are no sights in Congress. 2. The village is does not have a website. 3. The village is not covered in Wayne County's CVB website. 3. There are no hits on Google that suggest Congress is a destination. We really need to define what a destination is, because I don't believe that because a place has a semi-important thoroughfare makes that place a destination. Tom, Bill, Colin, Terrence, David, Paul will you guys please help me define what a destination is. I've started a discussion here. -- (WT-en) Sapphire 20:13, 17 October 2006 (EDT)
- Keep It's a bit of a close call, what with the campground, but I think it stays. Travel != Tourism and we should avoid any prescriptive destination selection on the basis of would visit or should visit. (WT-en) Maj 10:11, 18 October 2006 (EDT)
- The campground actually belongs in West Salem or West Salem (Ohio), which seems to actually be a destination. I'd be more than happy to create that guide once the Wayne County CVB's website is back online. -- (WT-en) Sapphire 10:54, 18 October 2006 (EDT)
- I have no idea why I feel so passionately against Congress so don't ask me why I hate this place so very much. Anyhow, I've called the Wayne County CVB and I asked the woman who answered the phone if they could send me information about Congress. She laughed when I asked that and then stated "Congress is nothing." I asked her to elaborate and she couldn't she just said there was nothing there. Even the bureau in charge of promoting this region is of the same opinion that I am. CVB's phone number: 330-264-1800. -- (WT-en) Sapphire 11:39, 18 October 2006 (EDT)
- I thought we were talking about Congress in Ohio. If you mean the one in Washington, DC, I'm with you. (WT-en) OldPine 16:39, 18 October 2006 (EDT)
- Keep is my vote, separate article, not merged. Sounds like Wikivoyage "will" be the most complete travel guide with coverage of places like Congress. I have got to say, may not be much of a place, but if I ever get close, I will visit. As time goes on we will see more people who are from small places, towns and villages finding the "wiki way" and making sure that their spot DOES have coverage. In my mind, the lack of coverage from anybody else, including some lady sitting in a town of 24,000 that thinks a place with a population of 197 "is nothing", is all the more reason for us to set aside a few bytes to coverage of Congress. I am not saying we need to cover a junction with or without a gas station, but if you go to Google, there are streets, people, post office and believe it or not.... It is a destination for at lease one Wikivoyageer that created the article. If this one is deleted, then we need to come up with a policy of places we delete that are larger then just a crossroad and start doing a clean up, we have a lot of places that are small but bigger then a crossroad. Now, if we start including crossroads... then I know a few of those also. ha! -- (WT-en) Tom Holland (xltel) 06:26, 19 October 2006 (EDT)
I'm working developing a prototype of what a regional page may look like if we merge small places. I will probably always maintain that this is not a destination and I think we need to work out what exactly to do with these places. Congress has 1,346 bytes why not merge those 1,346 bytes and make Wayne County a much more useful guide? If you would please add your thoughts to the discussion about what to do about "every dot on a map". If you search for that phrase it should pop up. Anyhow, I'm working on this prototype I think it will make our regional guides much more useful and prevent fairly pointless guides from being created. Hopefully, I'll be able to 'unveil' it soon. -- (WT-en) Sapphire 06:52, 19 October 2006 (EDT)
- I can see a consensus here and just to make this easier for whoever is on clerical duty for the day after tomorrow (October 29th) I vote keep and void my previous delete vote. -- (WT-en) Andrew H. (Sapphire) 20:44, 27 October 2006 (EDT)