Talk:Diani Beach

I don't think we want to put this in every article about every place in a developing country. Isn't it better to mention general issues in the Kenya article and specific issues here?

Hi, I don't know what is best but but I hear from visitors that travelled to Diani Beach that they were shocked and never want to go to Kenya again. Not because the Hotels, beaches or service was not to their satisfaction. They just got a "culture shock" being first time in a developing country. They expected Kenya to be somehow like e.g. Spain. If people come to Kenya for the first time it is usually Diani Beach plus Safari. Therefore I put that good link for travelling in developing countries in. We are all lazy in reading and therefore it might be good to leave such a link at least in the Diani Beach side. Anyway, you have a lot of experience in that things so do what you think is best. —The preceding comment was added by DocWoKav (talk • contribs)

You make a good point. But in that case, wouldn't it be best to specifically address the issues? Otherwise, I would suggest addressing the issues in the Kenya article and linking to that. But perhaps I'm wrong, so let's see what others say, and thanks for posting. (By the way, on talk pages, such as this one, it's expected for everyone to "sign" their posts by posting 4 tildes [the ~ key] and the end of their post.) Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:14, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Primordial beach at Gazi

What makes that beach particularly ancient? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:27, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

The beaches south of Diani Beach have hardly any tourism and are frequented by locals only. These beaches are not "shaped" by tourism (talk)

Thanks for replying. That doesn't make them primordial, as locals are no more ancient than anyone else, but rather are human beings living in modern times like the rest of the human race. It just makes those beaches untouristed (and perhaps unspoiled, but I wouldn't know that, although maybe you do). And I don't like any whiff of perpetuation of the white man's 19th-century racist pseudo-scientific theories of non-white people as "living ancestors". So can we please change the wording? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:25, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

I am not native English speaker and so it happens quite often, that wrong words come in using dictionary. I changed to "pristine'. Hope that is ok. If not just change it to what you think is best (talk)

If they are really pristine, that word is fine to use. Thanks for your work. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:32, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Extending Diani Beach to Diani Beach & South Coast

I would like to extent the title “Diani Beach” to “Diani Beach & South Coast”. The are few beaches about 25 km south of Diani Beach that are to small for a own page and would fit here if the page could be extended. What do you think? Can you tell me how to change the title?(DocWoKav|talk)

Safaris section

I like how informative the section is about where to go, how to choose a good safari operator, and what clothes to wear on your safari. However, a list of mere links and names of safari operators is the kind of thing I typically would delete in any article per don't tout, based on the idea that tour operators that can be listed per this site's tour listing policy need to post full listings, with the address of their headquarters or at least local office, phone number, description of services (non-touty, of course) and some rate information, in addition to their URL:

To check price levels of safaris: Kenya Safari Tours & Holidays. Some well known companys at Diani Beach area are: African Bush & Beach Adventures, Bush & Beach Adventures, African Dream Safaris, Tembo Safaris ltd, D.M. Tours & Safaris, Kiwara Safaris, Lady M Safaris, Wild Kenya Safaris, Pitia Africa Tours, Wildnis Tours and Safaris.

Moreover, I've been operating on the basis that tour operators can at most be listed only in the article for whichever city their headquarters is in. So I would like to delete this list, but let's talk about whether that would be bad for travelers, and whether my concerns about touting are not well placed. That said, I would also observe that it's very hard to keep a list only of recommended operators, because others will come and add themselves, and then who is going to say what to them? (There are similar problems when there are lists of car rental agencies, which is why I dislike those lists, too.)

Also, the link for checking the price levels of safaris clearly violates Wikivoyage:External links#What not to link to, so we should discuss whether it's such a helpful tool that we should except it from site guidelines. That requires a consensus on this talk page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:40, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

It's a tightrope walk where pure advertising begins and information ends. Tour Operators are privately owned companies, but so are hotels and restaurants. In Kenya, most travelers go on safari and then go on beach vacation. Good information about safari companies is just as important to them as the restaurants, hotels, shops. If you think that the private companies may not be listed, then restaurants, hotels, shops that are privately owned must be deleted too. You can not measure with two measures. DocWoKav (talk) 117:40, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

Did I say anywhere that safari operators shouldn't be listed on this site at all? Please deal with what I actually wrote. Do I need to copy and paste things from my post immediately above?

a list of mere links and names of safari operators is the kind of thing I typically would delete in any article per don't tout, based on the idea that tour operators that can be listed per this site's tour listing policy need to post full listings, with the address of their headquarters or at least local office, phone number, description of services (non-touty, of course) and some rate information, in addition to their URL

Moreover, I've been operating on the basis that tour operators can at most be listed only in the article for whichever city their headquarters is in. So I would like to delete this list, but let's talk about whether that would be bad for travelers, and whether my concerns about touting are not well placed. That said, I would also observe that it's very hard to keep a list only of recommended operators, because others will come and add themselves, and then who is going to say what to them?

Address these points, please. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:41, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

I apologize, I really did not read the text carefully. As far as I can see, I am more or less the only one who has made a substantial contribution over the coast of Kenya in recent years. Since I have no desire to bring the tour operators in the necessary form, it is probably the best to delete everything, unless somebody else likes to work up the actually valuable information for our readers. DocWoKav (talk) 19:40, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

It's quite alright. But do you feel that deleting the list would be better or worse for the traveler? Is the information on how to choose a safari operator sufficient, such that the list is not needed? Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:18, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

(All-inclusive) travelers can either book the safari from their tour operator abroad or they can request various offers from local tour operators. Local tour operators are usually better informed and therefore preferable. The links to the organizers here are from companies that are licensed and have a lot of experience. Of course, anyone can search the links on Tripadvisor, or they have them here. Since the links in the current form are "against the law", do what you think is best for Wikivoyage. DocWoKav (talk) 10:00, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

But guidelines are not laws, and exceptions can be made in the interests of travelers. The thing is, do you think the new name and link that were presumably added by a self-interested party should be removed from the list of recommended safari operators? And if so, what reason should be given for the removal? If you are willing and available to maintain a list only of recommended operators, making an exception to Wikivoyage guidelines might be justifiable. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:47, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

I will check if all providers come from the Diani Beach area and also have a license for 2019 and update the list. Then we're done, I think. DocWoKav (talk) 10:00, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

OK. Thanks for taking care of that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:16, 27 November 2019 (UTC)