Are they really articles or attractions within the scope of this article? I fear a body of water debate coming on :) --(WT-en) Burmesedays 11:20, 30 November 2009 (EST)
I am confused as well. I am wanting to have seperate articles for Kentukcy Lake, Lake, Barkley and Land Between the Lakes as all three can have alot of content in their articles. The other reason for having seperate articles is that all three of these connect to KY and TN (US states). Sorry if I have created the confustion by starting to do edits without creating a user name. I have compiled alot of information that I would like to list but havent becasue I can figure out how to get redirects removed.
It would be great to see content get filled out for these destinations—I suppose the question will be how to organize it. Land between the Lakes NRA should definitely have its own page, and perhaps it could also contain the information on Kentucky and Barley Lakes? In any rate, I'd personally be happy to see the information added on the three destinations in the form Kris thinks natural (since I'm guessing you are the only one here who really knows the area!), and then we can sort out how best to organize it by article. --(WT-en) PeterTalk 12:15, 30 November 2009 (EST)
Pet thanks for the info. Im gong to start working on all this all week. I also own and operate a website KentuckyLake.com wich is a regional tourism website for the area so we have tones of information to put up. I am also tring to get all the area tourism orginazation to help out with this as well. Please let me know if you see me doing anything wrong. Im very new to wikivoyage so it may not look great to the eye. I just didnt want to start getting alot of LBL and lake info on the waterland page and then have to move it later on. Also check us out on aboutus.org. We are tring to promote wikipedia and wikivoyage where ever possible.
Kris, I think you have made a good start with the article. And I think Peter's advice is defintely the right way to go. I cannot be too much help on the specifics as I do not know this part of the world at all, but I do have the following comments:
If they have not already been removed I will edit the re-directs as it does seem that you have relevant content for all 3 articles. Please though do read Project:Bodies_of_water and be sure that these are valid articles in their own right and not just attractions. If the latter, then the re-directs can easily be reinstated later.
Please understand that the WT policy on external links will probably not allow the listing of your own website. This does not preclude you from building an excellent article which promotes the region of course.
If you need any guidance on formating, what goes where etc, please do not be afraid to ask. With your eat listings for example, you need to avoid using the first person and to change the tone a little - more informational/descriptive and a little less like a pushy ad. You will find this helpful guidance: Project:Manual_of_style#Writing_style --(WT-en) Burmesedays 04:57, 1 December 2009 (EST)
Hmmm, I might have been a bit tired or something, but the cities seemed to be duplicate, so I thought it was all different names for the same region, and redirects would be more appropriate than having the same content 3 times over. If that was premature, I apologize. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann)talk 08:05, 1 December 2009 (EST)
As stated above and here, external links to non-official sites and non-primary tourism/hotel/booking sites are not allowed at WikiTravel and will be removed. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 10:41, 1 December 2009 (EST)
Can you please clarify what links you are talking about and i will remove them. All the links that I know of are official sites. If they are please let me know. I dont want to make anyones job hard. Also can some one help me how to do a redirect for articles. Their are several cities that need redirect. Example Gilbertsville need to be Benton / Gilbertsville. And Kuttawa and Eddyville need to be redirected to Kuttawa / Eddyville. Decemebr 1 2009
It might just be me, but do official US local govt sites have real estate ads and hotel booking engines on them? Maybe they do. To set up a redirect use the redirect code under Wiki Markup at the bottom of every edit screen: #REDIRECT [[]]. Insert the re-direct location in the brackets. Put that code as the first line of any page you want to re-direct. Also to sign your name on your posts on a talk page just hit the signature button (1 from the far right on the tool bar at the top of any edit screen). --(WT-en) Burmesedays 11:09, 1 December 2009 (EST)
I have a location question. Lake Barkley is part of Western Waterlands in KY and Middle Tennessee TN. Is their a way for it to be both? 12.189.230.154 14:29, 1 December 2009 (EST)
Heh, for a variety of reasons, organizing content for this region will be tricky. So lets try and figure it out so you can get to adding content without any more hassle.
I take it you see the tourism here in terms of Kentucky Lake, Lake Barkley, and Land between the Lakes NRA, right? That's the impression I've got from looking at tourism sites. The NRA already has its own page, and that's uncontroversial. For the two lakes, there are three basic ways to handle them:
Create an article for each lake, and then use that like an overview region page, with links to individual towns along the banks, and then put all the individual hotel, restaurant, etc. listings into the town articles.
Create an article for each lake, and then avoid creating pages for the towns altogether, and just put all the relevant hotels, restaurants, etc. on the two lake pages.
Don't create articles for each lake, but rather put overview information on them in the Western Waterlands article, and create individual town pages for the towns/municipalities along the lakes, in each of which we'll put the information on watersports and other activities available right from that town.
Which sounds to you like it will be a more effective way of presenting this information? --(WT-en) PeterTalk 15:14, 1 December 2009 (EST)
Peter let me think about that. Do you have a suggestion of which would be easier? Do you have any examples of other pages that have this issue. Off the top of my head I think option one is the best. Please let me know your thoughts.98.93.3.76 23:08, 1 December 2009 (EST)
The question is mostly one of how much information there is, and how it is concentrated. #1 and #3 are best for larger lakes, which have many towns that could support full travel articles (with all the see, do, eat, sleep, etc. sections filled out). #2 is best for relatively sparsely populated and smaller lakes, where the various tiny municipalities would not sustain good travel articles on an individual basis, and the total amount of listings wouldn't overwhelm one article. So basically it depends on how big and crowded each lake is, and I'm sure you'd be a better judge of that than I would, since I've never been to Western Kentucky!
I just created that map & the regions pages, and was both intrigued about the travel opportunities for the lakes region, and worried about how hard it would be to cover it well in the Wikivoyage format! I figured I'd leave it alone until someone knowledgeable came along ;) Lastly, if we try something and it doesn't work out well, we can always reorganize in the future. --(WT-en) PeterTalk 23:22, 1 December 2009 (EST)
Lets go with option #1. I think that will work best. To me the issue lies in that Kentucky Lake, Lake Barkley are both very large lakes. LBL is also very large and all three cover several counties, towns and states so I think that #1 will work out best. I hopefully will ahave alot more info posted today since both lake articles are now posted.12.189.230.154 10:19, 2 December 2009 (EST)
I have another question. One the cities area. Benton is a city in Kentucky. How do I link the word Benton to Benton KY article.12.189.230.154 11:43, 2 December 2009 (EST)
I'm not entirely sure what you mean? --(WT-en) PeterTalk 02:31, 3 December 2009 (EST)
The more I look at this, the more I think Kentucky Lake, Lake Barkley, and the Land Between the Lake NRA articles should be merged into a single LBLNRA article. The lakes are used primarily for water recreation and the NRA has lots of land based recreation opportunities. I think the problem is that many visitors are only active in one body of water or the NRA lands and don't see them as one unit. With the three articles you are going to get a lot of duplication of towns as there aren't many around. Benton, Cadiz, Grand Rivers, and Kuttawa are the main gateways in Kentucky. In Tennessee, it is Paris and Dover. Schwaltz (talk) 00:18, 17 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
So would there be a single NRA article and then individual articles for the various towns? Or just one big article? --PeterTalk00:52, 17 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
A single NRA article including all of the activities that one can take part in for the lakes and land areas, much like a standard park article. It would probably have to include privately held properties such as marinas as well as publicly owned facilities. The cities should have their own articles and referenced to in the NRA article. I looked the the Great Smoky Mts. article as an analog. All of the gateway cities are referenced in the article. I am not sure if there are any developed lake articles to look at as a reference. Basically like option 1 spelled out above, but with one overview article instead of three. I just think that there will be a lot of overlap with three separate articles.Schwaltz (talk) 23:31, 17 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think I may have to back track. I was trying to visualize how to lay out one article and I think you would run into a lot of confusion. I think people would instinctively search for Kentucky Lake, LBLNRA, and Lake Barkley as separate areas. The three article solution may be best even if there is plenty of overlap.Schwaltz (talk) 00:26, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think at the end of the day the main thing is that we know where to put individual listings (none should be in more than one article). I'd love to map out our articles for this region, since it is pretty confusing. Could you maybe draw some lines on a screenshot of OpenStreetMap [1] and upload it here, so I could see how you visualize the article boundaries? I'd be happy to help put together a Wikivoyage-style map, but am still confused as to how we're handling the content. --PeterTalk03:26, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Area surrounding the Land Between the Lakes NRA with notations I have created map that will hopefully convey how closely these areas are linked. I have outlined the NRA boundaries in green. Kentucky Lake lies to the west and Lake Barkley to the east. Each lake has one shore that is public lands and one shore that is privately developed. There are also 4 state parks in the mix. I have identified 9 cities that I would consider gateways to the region. Places you would go for lodging, dining, supplies, as well as possible tourism depending where you are in the region. Dover, and Paris in TN. Cadiz, Eddyville, Kuttawa, Grand Rivers, Benton, Aurora, and Murray in KY. There are also 3 larger cities on the periphery. Clarksville, Hopkinsville, and Paducah. As far as overlap potential, here are a few scenarios. A visitor to Kentucky Lake or LBLNRA would both possibly look to the cities in the west for entertainment, supplies, dining, etc. A visitor to Lake Barkley and LBLNRA could both be looking at cities in the east. Visitors to either lake may look towards the NRA for activities to do. In regards to the Western Waterlands region of KY, it is a mostly rural area and agricultural area (Hopkinsville is the largest city with a population of 30,000). The lakes, parks, and NRA are a huge economic engine for the area and the primary interest for anyone visiting from out of the region. Most of the information submitted for this part of the state will probably reference or be directly tied to the LBL activities. I hope this information helps out. Let me know if you have any questions about this area and I will try to give a helpful answer. Schwaltz (talk) 10:57, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
