Talk:Taiwanese Hokkien phrasebook
Taiwanese_phrasebook should not be redirected to Min-nan since it is a subclass of the larger Min-nan Chinese language class ([Min-nan Wiki]). Other subclasses of Min-nan, like Hokkien and Hakka, are all not entirely mutually intelligible. Thus when it comes to the main topic of travelling, I'll maintain that Taiwanese_phrasebook is where most of the current information should be kept, Taiwanese being a language spoken in Taiwan. A Min-nan phrasebook would have to include dialects from Southern China, to Taiwan, Hainan, Singapore, Malaysia, and possibly more. (WT-en) R s l n 20:23, 20 August 2006 (EDT)
Taiwanese is actually pretty much synonymous with the term "Min Nan" in that the regional differences between the version spoken in Xiamen, Taiwan, Singapore, etc. are all arbitrary. A speaker from any region will be able to communicate with a speaker from a different region, though some difficulties may arise... in much the same way English speakers from Australia, America, and Jamaica will be able to understand each other, albeit with a possible degree of difficulty. The classifcation "Min Nan" is given that distinction because all dialects in the family are mutually intelligable...apart from other "Min" classes. Also, Hakka is not a "Min Nan" language...and "Hokkien" is, again, another term synonymous with "Min Nan" or "Taiwanese", in that this is what most speakers of the language refer to it as ("Hokkien" is the hokkien translation of "FuJian", the region of China where this language is spoken) So, in other words, "Taiwanese" (or Tai2yu3) is what most speakers in taiwan call it... "Hokkien" or "Fu2Jian1 Hua4" or "Fu2Jian1Yu3" is what most speakers (and indeed most non-speakers) outside of Taiwan refer to it as, and "Min Nan" is some arbitrary name given to it by ignorant western scholars. The point is, that they all refer to the same language. Try it... use the words in this phrase book to a "hokkien" speaker in Singapore... I guarantee they'll understand (so long as you pronounce the tones correctly, and pretty much ignore the first half of these phrases, as they're almost completely unintelligable)
- Man, this is a total mess now. I think we should merge this to Minnan phrasebook, use Peh-oe-ji to romanize, and then put the pseudophonetics in parentheses afterward. (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:44, 3 August 2007 (EDT)
Seems like I need to repeat, all dialects in the Min-nan class are not entirely mutually intelligible [Min-nan Wiki]. Although I can't comment on the specific case of whether someone who learned Taiwanese in Taiwan can communicate with, as you say, a "hokkien" speaker in Singapore, I do know that the communication can be very limited for other dialects within the Min-nan class. So if you're going to travel to Taiwan, communication is going to be hard enough, let alone if you're speaking in a dialect from somewhere else. Using the Peh-oē-jī method would be most accurate, but because there are 6 (7?) tones on top of breath and nasal differences in Taiwanese, this quickly gets complicated [Phonology Wiki]. Anyone who gets this section going I applaud. Reading the words is not the ideal way to learn this language (and that is why the Audio section is at the top--this would be the best way of course, anyone have the means to do this?). A reorganization could work, but again, the Pseudo-phonetization is exactly that, pseudo. The disclaimer that prefaces that section currently should be kept very clear! (WT-en) R s l n 17:14, 29 October 2007 (EDT)
- You write ""Min Nan" is some arbitrary name given to it by ignorant western scholars." No. "min nan hua" (which translates as "south fujian speech") is the name of this language in Mandarin, standard Chinese. I live in Fujian and have never heard "Fujian hua", only "Minnan hua" or "Fuzhou hua" (a very different language), and "khejia hua" (another quite different language, what we would call Hakka in English).
- As for mutual intelligibility, I know an American teacher who learned the language working in Taiwan then moved to Xiamen; she has no problem being understood. (WT-en) Pashley 19:57, 1 March 2009 (EST)
- I have compared the Minnan phrasebook and this one and (although I have to admit that I don't understand much about any of this) the biggest difference I could spot was the better formating and more extensive section about tones in the Minnan phrasebook. As there is quite some activity on the the Minnan phrasebook and hardly any here I would suggest redirecting this one (again?) so we don't waste any energy. I doubt we have enough experts to keep two phrasebooks - both in need for extension - of the same or almost the same language. Any objections? --(WT-en) Sebindi 11:59, 6 August 2010 (EDT)
My wife is Taiwanese and she can't understand any of this on this page126.96.36.199 23:57, 13 September 2007 (EDT)
I can speak Minnan and I can say to all of you that both of them are just the same language and if one were to go to each other's places, they would understand each other. Essentially, the largest group of people to go to Taiwan after the Civil War were from this part of China, Xiamen, and so the there is no difference between the two. Its like the sample given above, an American that goes to Canada would understand the Canadians now, won't they? In Minnan : Ban Lam Oe kap Tai wan oe si sa tang.
- Can this now be merged & redirected? Now that we are at WMF, are there new editors (perhaps Minnan speakers?) who would care to weigh in? Pashley (talk) 18:33, 7 December 2012 (UTC)