Wikivoyage:Votes for undeletion

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It may occur from time to time that we delete an article by mistake -- that is, that the article doesn't actually meet the standards for deleting articles listed on the VFD page. In this case, a Wikivoyager should link to the page on this page, with an explanation of why the deletion wasn't in accordance with our deletion policy. Articles and images are still considered guilty until proven innocent. After fourteen (14) days of discussion, if a nomination is uncontested or a consensus arises that the page was deleted unnecessarily, then an administrator should reinstate the page. Otherwise, the page will stay deleted.

See also: Archives

Please list new pages below.

Global cities[edit]

I have just suggested this at Talk:Global_cities#Resurrect.3F. I think comments should go there rather than here. Pashley (talk) 21:04, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Islamic State[edit]

A short article titled "Islamic State" was recently speedy deleted and moved to [[Wikivoyage:Bad jokes and other deleted nonsense/Islamic State]]. Discussion is archived at Wikivoyage:Votes_for_deletion/August_2014.

I think there is a good argument for bringing it back. Unfortunately, this state is neither a bad joke nor nonsense in the way that other entries at Wikivoyage:Bad jokes and other deleted nonsense are. It is quite real, the people involved are quite serious, and it currently controls some territory. We do cover other such states such as Transnistria, and should since their existence can seriously affect travel plans and risks.

On the other hand, I think "Islamic State" is a terrible name since it is a generic term and there are plenty of other Islamic states. A search for "Islamic" turns up four whose official names are "Islamic Republic of ...". I'd put it at ISIL with redirects from the full name and "Caliphate". Pashley (talk) 15:38, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

I think our policy is to wait a year or so before deciding that new entities that exist as a result of armed conflict are here to stay, perhaps especially those with unclear and shifting borders. Moreover, the writer of this article himself called it "gallows humor." I oppose moving the article back into mainspace. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:40, 11 August 2014 (UTC)it the year
That is fair enough; let's wait the year. Given that both Iraq and Syria oppose them and other nations may as well, ISIL may not last that long. Pashley (talk) 18:46, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
I didn't know there was a year waiting period, but I guess that is fair. It looks like Russia's Crimea jumped to the front of the line, though? The joke was mostly a very grim one about this state being a reality, but it was also poking fun at some of the other articles here that treat unrecognized and failed states equally with normal countries to visit! Also, "Bad jokes and nonsense" is kind of harsh :) Travelwriter1000 (talk) 20:58, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
This is a real place, and we don't delete real places. Restore as, for the time being, a redirect to whatever region of Iraq it corresponds to, then we can reassess after the long-term scenario becomes more clear. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 21:31, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Taking into account Pashley's concerns about the article's title, another option would be to restore it as a disambiguation page, listing the ISIL-held territory with a link to the appropriate region article as well as the "Islamic Republic Of..." articles. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 21:34, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
To clarify about Crimea: When it's clear that something really is a fait accompli, we should change articles accordingly, but this is a state of flux and not something we can be confident will exist or be in remotely similar borders in a month, let alone 6 months. Similarly, it would have been a mistake to have a travel article about the extremist Islamist group that briefly occupied northern Mali and laid waste to as many cultural monuments as possible. I continue to oppose undeletion of this article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:40, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
I'm strongly with Ikan. It's not the "not-recognized" part that's a problem. Of course we have articles about de-facto states with more-or-less clear borders and under more-or-less clear control of a non-recognized government. This one is different though, at least at this moment. It's a self-proclaimed caliphate since just weeks in its current form; a still ongoing event. There are no clear boundaries yet, no clear plan, it's a true war zone where an extreme group is working towards a genocide while fighting another extreme group ánd the relevant recognized governments for control. The US is dropping bombs and not even humanitarian aid can be properly delivered except in the form of thousands of food and water air drops today and yesterday. From a travellers' point of view, the question at this point is not where to apply for a visa. It's essentially a no-go zone for which we can give pretty much no other relevant, recent or trustworthy information now except that you should probably stay away. Of course this might change rapidly over time, and I'm fine with adapting the way we handle this then, but a serious travel article about the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant at this point in time seems... misguided at best. JuliasTravels (talk) 09:14, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
Indeed, we also have articles for Transdniester, Somaliland and other similar places because our articles should reflect what you will face if you go to these areas. I would however also wait and see what happens in this case. Ikan mentioned Azawad that existed for a short while but is no longer, and currently Donetsk and Luhansk are effectively independent countries that might or might not need country articles at some point, but as of now we should not create them either but wait and see.
Obviously, places like these are more often than not some sort of war zones, ie. unsafe and hard to reach. People who go there do so because someone sends them there (not for tourism), and that employer or whatever will provide them with the information, equipment and transportation they need. ϒpsilon (talk) 09:42, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
It's been a year. Just sayin'... Travelwriter1000 (talk) 19:09, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
True, but the original BJAODN entry was moved to the "bad joke" pages specificly because the original author claimed to be joking (presumably, gallows humour) when this was posted. K7L (talk) 19:23, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
Also, if someone wanted to write a serious article about the area controlled by these murderers, what would it say other than "stay well clear of the following region"? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:02, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
I say that while we generally claim to take no side in political disputes and only care for the reality on the ground for travelers, the fact of the matter is that the facts on the ground are hard to determine and there are hardly any travelers. Furthermore the "borders" (read: frontlines) of this self proclaimed state (a funny wording as all states are self proclaimed and rely on violence or the threat of it to remain in existence) are in a constant state of flux, so we really cannot very well cover this place. Last but not least while WV has thus far not reached a lot of media recognition having a page with that title is bad press waiting to happen. I know none of these are criteria officially, but imho it would be foolish not to keep them in mind. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:03, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
I don't think it's true that there are few travellers to IS-controlled territory. A lot of Muslims have been indoctrinated into extremism and flock to Turkey with the purpose of going to the Caliphate and either fighting or marrying some extremist man. But what advice would we give them, other than don't!? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:23, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
Perhaps Da'esh should be a travel topic, much like dangerous animals is a travel topic. It's not a place, it's a hazard of travel. K7L (talk) 13:38, 15 August 2017 (UTC)


Since February 2013, this has been a redirect to Template:PartOfTopic. User:Texugo deleted it because of potential confusion over the deprecation of this one in favor of that one. But here's the thing: I don't think we ever came to a consensus to deprecate this one in the first place. Specifically, I don't think we ever had a strong consensus that breadcrumb navigation is useful for travel topics. The pseudo-hierarchy that our travel topics have been shoehorned into is a mess. I suggest we abandon the PartOfTopic experiment as a failure and revert to using Template:Traveltopic. Powers (talk) 23:28, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

To be clear, you are proposing not restoring it as a redirect, but in its form prior to Jan 2013 when it was redirected. Correct? Texugo (talk) 23:40, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Basically. Powers (talk) 00:00, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Emphatic support. Pashley (talk) 00:16, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. Somewhere down the line we probably should make another stab at a better organization scheme for our travel topics, but the current state of affairs is far inferior to its predecessor. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:05, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment what was the approximate content of said travel topic? Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:13, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
    Apologies. It's still available on that other wiki in essentially the same form. It's very simple, as you can see. Powers (talk) 23:23, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
So the proposal is to get rid of breadcrumb organization of travel topics and substitute this template. Shouldn't there be a concurrent discussion someplace like Talk:Travel topics index (which is where Talk:Travel topics redirects to), before we undelete this with no consensus on what to do with it? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:27, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
Some older discussions are at Talk:Travel_topics_index#Change_to_tagging_travel_topics. (as I see it, no consensus but the change was made anyway) and Talk:Travel_topics_index#Problems_with_current_setup. Pashley (talk)
Shouldn't we restart discussion in that thread and come to a consensus before we vote on undeleting this template? The change may have been made improperly, but because it's existed for 2 years, I think discussion outside of Votes for undeletion is appropriate and probably needed. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:37, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
My contention is that we never had a consensus to remove this template in the first place. Powers (talk) 14:22, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
I think your contention is accurate, but I still think 2 years of practice probably require a consensus to undo. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:34, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
I agree with Ikan on both points. Pashley (talk) 16:18, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Mark me down as undecided - on the one hand we could do with more help for writing travel topics (not necessarily standard headings, but "understand" and "see also" apply almost universally) but I don't know whether this template is the way to go... Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:02, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
This template has nothing to do with {{smallcity skeleton}} and similar "article template" formatting, it's just the one-line '''{{PAGENAME}}''' is a travel topic.. Reinstating it does nothing to standardise anything in the article. K7L (talk) 15:55, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
It was created quite a long time back User_talk:Pashley/Archive#Thanks. I'm almost certain we could & should do something better now, but I'm not sure what & I remain convinced that breadcrumbs for travel topics are a mistake. Pashley (talk) 17:20, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Be Smart When It Comes To Disney World[edit]

Text from this old article is still being used in Walt Disney World. It's a violation of our license to remove that attribution-by-redirect. Powers (talk) 00:05, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Which text and where? Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:48, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
I haven't catalogued all of it yet but the very first text I searched for turned up at Walt Disney World#Timing. I thought that'd be enough. Powers (talk) 18:57, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
I've undeleted it for now - attribution always comes first. If someone has found time to check which sections are affected and rewrite/properly attribute them, this redirect can be speedy re-deleted. JuliasTravels (talk) 11:18, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
Attribution would be tricky, as it wasn't even done correctly the first time. (A different IP user did the copy+paste without saying where the text had come from.) Powers (talk) 15:06, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Here is the copied text I've found:

  • "Attendance is lowest in November (pre-Thanksgiving), December (pre-Christmas), and January." (October has since been added.)
  • "The weeks between Easter and Memorial Day are another slow period"
  • "If your vacation dates are flexible" through "it will allow you to relax and enjoy the park on the more crowded days" -- two paragraphs worth with just one or two sentences inserted since the paste.
  • "Extra morning and evening [magic] hours at selected parks"
  • "Disney Cast Members available to answer your questions"
  • "Free parking at the parks"
  • "On the other hand, staying off property has its own perks" (slightly modified in the current article)
  • "you can book condos or home rentals for large groups which allow you to cook meals making dining costs even cheaper and lodging costs very cheap."
  • "Every park has low cost meals in the $3-$4 range for kid meals and $6-$8 for adult meals at the sandwich shops, ethnic specialty nooks, cafeterias, and communal dining halls (like ABC Commissary at MGM). They provide ample food for the money. You can often feed your whole family for little more than the cost of one expensive entrée at the upscale restaurants." (slightly modified in the current article)

-- Powers (talk) 15:19, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Would it be possible to remove all of this text and replace it with new, original content? The huge amount of stale WT content that hasn't changed in half a decade is already hurting us WV:SEO-wise. K7L (talk) 13:38, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
I second this motion! Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:53, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
We could replace it but close paraphrases are usually consider plagiarism just as much as exact quotations. I believe the same applies to copyright. Powers (talk) 23:21, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

Singles travel[edit]

This was deleted some time ago; see Talk:Singles_travel for archived discussion. I originally suggested the deletion & supported it later. However, it is potentially a valid travel topic & should be resurrected if (& only if!) someone wants to do the work of building a decent article on it. I am not volunteering.

I think it would need at least two sections, one on destinations or tours where people go to meet other singles (e.g. Florida or Queensland on university breaks) and one on countries where male travellers are swamped with women who want a visa or think we are rich. e.g. in the Philippines, a lass working as a store clerk or waitress might make US$125-200 a month & a moderately well off foreign boyfriend could easily spend that much on her. It also needs a link to Common_scams#Dating_scams.

Additional sections are possible, such as one on travel for gay or lesbian singles and perhaps one on places where prostitution is legal and/or cheap & ubiquitous. Pashley (talk) 01:28, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

I don't get the assumption that prostitution is specifically, let alone only, for single people. I would leave that out of any such article. Prostitution may deserve a separate article, though it's certainly a very delicate subject to cover tastefully in a travel guide. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:53, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
I agree, it would be hard to cover well & much the easiest course would be to leave it out, but it might be an option for some people (mostly men) who want to get laid while travelling. Pashley (talk) 05:03, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
The reason I brought this article up for possible resurrection is that it is listed at Special:WantedPages with seven links from other articles. Pashley (talk) 05:03, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
OK, but do you agree that prostitutes don't cater expressly to single people, and therefore that prostitution is a different topic than singles travel? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:39, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
Yes. Pashley (talk) 08:27, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
We already have travelling alone, LGBT travel and a Wikivoyage:Sex tourism policy but I did oppose a merge of singles travel to solo travel as "single" does not always mean "single and looking". They are two different concepts. I have no intention to write anything, but the topic is valid were someone to write something other than touting or the obvious. K7L (talk) 17:18, 29 April 2018 (UTC)