Wikivoyage talk:UX Expedition

This discussion page is both for discussions of what is being worked on as part of the expedition and for comments to the UX team. If you have a comment, request, complaint, etc. regarding the UX of the site, feel free to leave a message here.

Annoyances of editing on an Android

I don't know how much I'll be able to assist with this expedition, because I lack technical knowhow. That said, I thought it would be relevant to mention some of the annoyances I've been experiencing while editing on my Android while in transit.

(1) I haven't found a 1-click method for accessing recent changes. Instead, I search for WV:recent, click the Wikivoyage:Recent changes patrol link, then click the link to "recent changes" in the first paragraph.

(2) More seriously, when I click a recent change, I see no way to reliably access the latest version of the article I'm looking at. It usually is in fact the latest version, but my browser gives me a big warning that it's an old version. And when I try to edit it, it's not so easy. At least today, I've been getting into the "source" and not edit mode, so that I had to go back to the list of all recent changes, click on the name of the article, and then click edit in order to actually edit the text.

Thank goodness I usually edit from my laptop! I'll post more examples of Android editing annoyances when they come up. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:35, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

And now I can't easily edit a typo??? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:36, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

The edit or edit section buttons aren't appearing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:38, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

I was just able to successfully click the "Latest revision" button in an article which had later revisions than the one I clicked from Recent Changes Patrol. I think the bug for Android may be that if we are indeed looking at the latest revision when we click a difference from Recent Changes Patrol, it tells us it's an old version, does nothing when we click "Latest revision", and also sometimes won't let us edit the page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:25, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Adding listing is a pain on mobile. I ended up creating bullet list on mobile and fill in the remaining items in a separate edit later on on computer. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 03:21, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Request for changes to the marker template editor in visual edit mode

If you create a marker using the visual edit mode, there are four boxes: Type, Name, Latitude, Longitude. Shouldn't Wikidata ID also be included as one of the four main boxes? Also, if you add a Wikidata ID and then exit the editor mode, it acts as though you are lacking latitude and longitude. These issues should be corrected to encourage people to add Wikidata ID's. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 17:15, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Put simply, "Wikidata" is labeled an optional parameter, but I think it should not be. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 17:28, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

@ARR8: Thanks for sorting this out! --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 23:59, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Templates on mobile web

In case anyone missed it, people here might be interested in this update in the pub: Wikivoyage:Travellers' pub#An update on templates on mobile web. —Granger (talk · contribs) 02:17, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Feature Banner: Desktop and Mobile versions

• Issue: Desktop and Mobile versions
  • Work in progress. Nearly complete, but some testing is needed. How does Main Page/Sandbox currently look on other phones? Are there any issues preventing changes in {{Banner/sandbox}} (CSS changes) from being made live? Not a rhetorical question; feedback wanted.
    • @Traveler100, SelfieCity: and anyone else wanting to help out: It works fine for me but my design decisions for the mobile appearance were subjective. Thoughts? ARR8 (talk | contribs)
      • Great that the discover and sister areas display. For feature banner though works in landscape mode but not portrait (the way most people view) on a medium sized mobile. I am not sure having the text in the image is the way to go with mobile, if you make the view area narrow, apart from not having enough space for all the text is covers the whole image, cannot see the picture and text reading is difficult. Is it possible to have different rules for desktop and mobile apart from the problematic current method? --Traveler100 (talk) 21:24, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

        @Traveler100: Strange, it works in portrait mode on my phone. What are you seeing? Could you upload a screenshot? ARR8 (talk | contribs) 21:37, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

        @ARR8: see File:Screenshot 20190219-224012 Chrome.jpg. On Galaxy S7 edge using Chrome --Traveler100 (talk) 21:46, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

        @Traveler100: I've taken a new approach. What do you (and anybody else reading) think about Main Page/sandbox2? All details can be tweaked, but the general idea is there. ARR8 (talk | contribs) 03:38, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

        @ARR8: That is clever and an interesting idea. I think positive that the pictures are first visible. Text can be called is cool and makes the page interactive. Is there a way to dismiss the text once selected to get back to the pictures?--Traveler100 (talk) 06:47, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

        Would it be possible to have text drop down below the image push what is below that further down?--Traveler100 (talk) 10:19, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

        @Traveler100: Currently, you can dismiss the text by tapping one of the other pictures, or any blank space elsewhere on the page. Text below the image is fine, but pushing everything else down may be a problem; I'll look into it. I'd rather not do one without the other, as it may cover the other banners. ARR8 (talk | contribs) 12:25, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

        Maybe also keep the title on the image, if you can do that and at the same time the touch icon. --Traveler100 (talk) 12:42, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

        @Traveler100: For various reasons, it is not simple to push everything else down when the text appears. Let's assume it's not possible for now and look for other solutions. I've added a rule for relative vertical positioning of the text on the image, and I've instead pushed it up. I'm comfortable doing that, because I assume most people who tap the images will do so top-to-bottom. I've put it at 50% up, so half the image is still visible, but it can be set to anything. What do you think about this solution?

        It is possible to get the title to show up, but I honestly prefer it without, as it shows more of the image and you get more of a "tap to reveal" effect. I can do a proof-of-concept if you'd like, though. ARR8 (talk | contribs) 16:35, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

        the position of the tap text is better higher up.--Traveler100 (talk) 18:26, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

        Have you got a percent in mind? Currently 50%, and at 100%, the box won't overlap the image at all. Values >100% are also possible. ARR8 (talk | contribs) 20:12, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

        @Traveler100: And, of course, please feel free to make changes/tweaks like this yourself. The line which controls this is indicated by a comment in the CSS file, near the bottom. ARR8 (talk | contribs) 20:29, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

        I think the current position of a little above is good. Would be useful to get others feedback though. But as this solves the problem of the other sections being visible I would say if no feedback soon, make this live. --Traveler100 (talk) 08:49, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

---

• • @ARR8: Has not worked. Appears to the problem that works when code is on another page but not when the actual main page. --Traveler100 (talk) 20:39, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

    @Traveler100: Yes, seems to be the same as the other templates. When we finish Mapbanner, we can file a Phabricator ticket to use the supported main page functionality, and I'm hopeful that, when we do this, all the templates will appear. ARR8 (talk | contribs) 21:49, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

    Suggest the change is undone untill issue solved as currently cannot see feature pages on mobile, previous method was not perfect but at least worked. --Traveler100 (talk) 21:57, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

    I would ask to hold off on that. I'm hoping we can finish the redesign relatively soon, and we'll have to deal with hidden templates while our ticket is in the queue, anyway. ARR8 (talk | contribs)22:00, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

    Agreed — while I absolutely support the redesign, I think we should be careful about keeping the redesign going on the basis that an issue will be solved at some point in the future. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 22:42, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Flags for "issue" bullet points

Just wanted to say, I like those! --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 15:31, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Table in Communication

The sections of it are not aligned as they should be on my screen. There's a little bit of table here, a little bit there, etc. If this is the case on most screens, it should be fixed. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 20:01, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Responsive design

Swept in from the pub

Just wanted to say to the community: it's been great to see all the work that has been put into responsive web design lately! --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 18:43, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for noticing! And to everyone: please, if you have any problems or design suggestions, let us know! ARR8 (talk | contribs) 18:48, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Have you thought about creating a responsive design expedition? --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 19:09, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

At the German Wikivoyage there is such an expedition. Such an expedition seems to be necessary because of multitude of problems not only for smartphones. --RolandUnger (talk) 19:50, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

True. If there's anyone who wants to start it, I'd be willing to help and join the expedition. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 20:54, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure. It may be nice to have a centralized place to discuss these things, rather than the mess of talk pages we've been using, but there may not be too many templates left to modify. I'll go along with User:Traveler100 on this, since it was he who started this whole endeavor. ARR8 (talk | contribs) 21:13, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

I know I'm not T100, but may I add: maybe we could create a talk page for the issue, or even a Wikivoyage space page, that is not an expedition. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 21:31, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Maybe not an Expedition just for Responsive but a general one for User Experience. Would include working on pages so they are good on all browsers, but also how listing editor works, how the main page looks and format of pages in general. --Traveler100 (talk) 07:46, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 14:48, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Written a few ideas down at Wikivoyage:UX_Expedition. All please expand and correct as you feel fit. And, a little ironically, think of a better layout for the page. --Traveler100 (talk) 18:00, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for all the effort you have put into the expedition! --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 01:11, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Can’t block users on iPhone

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This is serious. I haven’t been able to turn my laptop on since last night, and when I look at user contributions on my phone, I’m given no option to change their status or block them. I also was unable to delete a redirect, because no matter what I did, it continued redirecting. If we are serious about wanting people to edit and moderate this site now and in the years to come, we’ve got to make the interface with cellphones stop sucking. I’m using Safari on an iPhone6S. I’m thoroughly disgusted and frustrated, and I’m outta here for the night. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:54, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Ikan - I agree with you about our mobile interface. A workaround to use until it's improved is to scroll down to the bottom of any Wikivoyage page on mobile and click on "Desktop view". The text ends up quite a bit smaller (this is why I periodically have trouble with accidental rollbacks!) but it gives you all the functionality you'd otherwise have on your laptop. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 14:15, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion. By the way, if anyone is wondering what happened to my android, it worked fine until, after just 2 years and a few months, it suddenly went completely dead. On that basis, I can’t recommend the Moto G5. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:19, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

• Should we perhaps make a request to the WMF about this? --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 16:35, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

  When I was invited to complete the Global Wikimedia Survey last year, the shite mobile interface was one of the issues I raised. Nothing was mentioned in the linked report, yet since then, there have been some improvements, but it's slow going. Since I know nothing about the amount of work such improvements actually require, I won't pass judgement on whether they're moving too slowly, but the system is overdue an upgrade.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:55, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

  On the general question of editing from a mobile device, the Editing team is working on the mobile visual editor, and I'd love to have a few of you try out this prototype: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Topic:V1mw6555sgyvt74l It's a (fake) wiki, and you need to be in the mobile mode, and then in the visual editing mode. It should default correctly, but if it doesn't, you can switch it (same as here). Ping me with questions, or you know that volunteer-me drops by here most days anyway. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:32, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Ikan, when you say "it continued redirecting", were you getting redirected back to the mobile site (which unfortunately wasn't designed for admin work)? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:48, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

No. I’m talking about a redirect from “Terra” to Destinations. I wasn’t able to delete the redirect because I couldn’t land on it. In desktop mode, when you’re redirected somewhere, you can get to the redirect page itself by either clicking on the redirect or pressing the back button, I forget which. In mobile mode, I’m just plain unable to land on the redirect page, no matter what, and therefore seem to have no way to delete it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:20, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

This won't be fun, but you can try it: if the redirect is "USA", copy the URL https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=USA&redirect=no into the search box. That should stop it from redirecting automatically. Just replace the "USA" with whatever you choose in that case. Should work. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 04:37, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

I think that phab:T150189 is the correct task, and it looked like User:Jdlrobson was (a long time ago) looking for a good explanation of why anyone would want to do that. Jon, is that the correct task for "As an admin, I need to be able to reach the redirect so I can delete it from my phone"? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 05:01, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Editing News #1—July 2019

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Read this in another language • Subscription list for this multilingual newsletter

Did you know?

Did you know that you can use the visual editor on a mobile device?

Every article has a pencil icon at the top. Tap on the pencil icon to start editing.

Edit Cards

This is what the new Edit Cards for editing links in the mobile visual editor look like. You can try the prototype here: 📲 Try Edit Cards.

Welcome back to the Editing newsletter.

Since the last newsletter, the team has released two new features for the mobile visual editor and has started developing three more. All of this work is part of the team's goal to make editing on mobile web simpler.

Before talking about the team's recent releases, we have a question for you:

Are you willing to try a new way to add and change links?

If you are interested, we would value your input! You can try this new link tool in the mobile visual editor on a separate wiki.

Follow these instructions and share your experience:

📲 Try Edit Cards.

Recent releases

The mobile visual editor is a simpler editing tool, for smartphones and tablets using the mobile site. The Editing team recently launched two new features to improve the mobile visual editor:

1. Section editing
   • The purpose is to help contributors focus on their edits.
   • The team studied this with an A/B test. This test showed that contributors who could use section editing were 1% more likely to publish the edits they started than people with only full-page editing.
2. Loading overlay
   • The purpose is to smooth the transition between reading and editing.

Section editing and the new loading overlay are now available to everyone using the mobile visual editor.

New and active projects

This is a list of our most active projects. Watch these pages to learn about project updates and to share your input on new designs, prototypes and research findings.

• Edit cards: This is a clearer way to add and edit links, citations, images, templates, etc. in articles. You can try this feature now. Go here to see how: 📲 Try Edit Cards.
• Mobile toolbar refresh: This project will learn if contributors are more successful when the editing tools are easier to recognize.
• Mobile visual editor availability: This A/B test asks: Are newer contributors more successful if they use the mobile visual editor? We are collaborating with 20 Wikipedias to answer this question.
• Usability improvements: This project will make the mobile visual editor easier to use. The goal is to let contributors stay focused on editing and to feel more confident in the editing tools.

Looking ahead

• Wikimania: Several members of the Editing Team will be attending Wikimania in August 2019. They will lead a session about mobile editing in the Community Growth space. Talk to the team about how editing can be improved.
• Talk Pages: In the coming months, the Editing Team will begin improving talk pages and communication on the wikis.

Learning more

The VisualEditor on mobile is a good place to learn more about the projects we are working on. The team wants to talk with you about anything related to editing. If you have something to say or ask, please leave a message at Talk:VisualEditor on mobile.

PPelberg (WMF) (talk) & Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk)

18:32, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Expedition

@Traveler100: Are there any more plans for this expedition? --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 17:04, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Concrete specific plans, I am not sure. Personally I would like to move the mobile version improvements forward, particularly with interactive map, but that is past my technical knowledge area. --Traveler100 (talk) 01:11, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

I see. If only we could find some new person with good technical knowledge. Maybe someone connected to the WMF. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 12:35, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Wikivoyage:Don’t tout red linking

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Why is it doing that? This is showing up as a red link on my iPhone 6S. Does it red link for you? Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:25, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

For the same reason it's a pain in the neck to italicize or bold-ify text when editing on my phone: because iPhones default to curly quotes, but the apostrophe in Wikivoyage:Don't tout (and those used to denote bold and italic text in MediaWiki markup) are straight. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 14:46, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, that's terrible, isn't it? Couldn't we create a redirect to fix that problem? --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 18:01, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, it’s terrible for iPhones to edit “defectively” by default. And since we can’t expect people to all somehow change what their iPhones do, it’s imperative to fix the problem in MediaWiki markup. Or should I simply stop editing every time I am without my laptop and/or without Wi-Fi? That’s not a solution, but at present, others not on iPhones will have to do followup edits after me... Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:35, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek: Thank you - you inspired me to finally seek out a solution to this problem. On your iPhone, go to Settings > General > Keyboard and then turn Smart Punctuation off. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:15, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Done. Now, if I could only find an easy way to place my cursor in the middle of any word on my iPhone... Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:13, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

That issue with the cursor is literally one of the most annoying features of Apple products. Fortunately, 'my' iPad -belonging to my former employer - 'had to' be returned last week (oh, the pain!) as part of moving on to a new job.

I've made the redirect, as we should do our best to make Wikivoyage compatible with all operating systems. Off the top of your heads, can anyone remember any other policy page titles with an apostrophe, that may default to the fancy curly type on iOS? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:52, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

What about Wikivoyage:Travellers' pub? How does that work with the other kind of apostrophe? --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 12:54, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Wikivoyage:Travellers’ pub. It was redlinking, but not anymore.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:07, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, Thundering! Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:53, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

The "wrong" versions of "Don't tout" and "don't tout" should also be redirected. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:15, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

If you want to do this comprehensively, then there are about 325 titles in the mainspace (including redirects) and 39 in the project space (including four redirects). I'm not sure that every single one of these needs a redirect from curly quotes. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:54, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

I would say that anything in articlespace can be redirected as and when it's needed. It would make sense to do the policy pages, however.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:45, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Yes --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 18:31, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Quality ratings on mobile

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I've been browsing WV on mobile a bunch recently, and one thing I've been missing is the quality ratings (star, guide, outline, etc.) at the bottom — they're a really useful piece of context that helps me discern whether to treat what I'm reading as authoritative collective wisdom or the musings of the one editor who's ever been to the place. Would it be possible to add these to the mobile edition? Sdkb (talk) 05:18, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

They're not missing on my mobile browser (Chrome). The template only displays in a basic text format, but it's still enough to know what level an article is. Which browser are you using? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 06:49, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

I see the text when you expand the Go next section. As you say just text, we need to look at having some form of box boarder around the text in mobile mode. --Traveler100 (talk) 07:26, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

I'm now in mobile mode on a desktop computer, and I am using the Firefox browser. The status information is showing up with a border as well. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 21:09, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Oops, silly me, I just didn't think to expand that last section. I guess ideally the box should appear outside that section, as it's not part of "Go next", but that's a more minor issue. Sdkb (talk) 16:06, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Bottom of pages in mobile

In mobile mode the sections are by default collapses and the last section (often Go next) includes info boxes like the article status. Is there anyway to get {{Stbox}} to always display even when the last section is not expanded? --Traveler100 (talk) 17:39, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Wikivoyage Mobile App

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I wrote this same article to Wikipedia:Village pump (idea lab), Wikimedia Forum and Wikivoyage/Lounge page but I share my ideas one more time to here. Wikivoyage is one of the best projects of Wikimedia. In last days, I'm so concentrated to develop the new opened Turkish Wikivoyage page. And I think, an official mobile app for Wikivoyage is a good idea. It can be perfect for the travelers around the world. The people mostly use their smart phones during traveling. This project will not make much sense if there is no app of WV. I think the Wikimedia Foundation should consider that.UcuncuUlus (talk) 13:48, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

A well-designed website does not need an app. A good website is responsive and will adjust itself as needed for the platform it's being displayed on. The existing Wikipedia app is unnecessary. --Nelson Ricardo (talk) 17:30, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

There is already the kiwix app for offline browsing. Also, e.g. OsmAnd or maps.me support WV articles... If you need some additional functionality, probably it's best to extend one of those, than to write it from scratch...? -- andree.sk(talk) 19:19, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

A well designed website may be easy to navigate on a smartphone but that doesn't mean an app is not necessary. Millennials and Gen Z increasingly use apps instead of mobile browsers because of their ease of use and efficiency. Instead of typing the website url or searching for it on Google or another engine and then going to the website, it's much easier to click on an app. And the Wikimedian urls are not intuitive. Rather than wikiname.com it's en.wikiname.org as we're non-commercial. Nobody bookmarks websites like they did 20 years ago. Any organisation providing an online service that thinks an app is unnecessary in 2021 will go the way of the dinosaurs. Gizza ^(roam) 01:48, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I'd love a mobile app. The only reason why I don't edit so much is because I'm on desktop, and editing on mobile isn't convenient. TravelAroundOz (talk) 21:02, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

DaGizza: That may be true, but for a dinosaur like me (who has used gopher), it sounds absurd. What about an app that just starts the web browser, feeding it with the address? Like icons on desktop. You need a fancy image of course. But no need for any code that you fetch from an app store if you can use the favicon or something similar. But you need a black box app to give control to the .com site, so that is what they have made people use. –LPfi (talk) 23:10, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

@LPfi: Yes, but time goes, things change and what we do changes. TravelAroundOz (talk) 07:51, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

There are apps that are useful, such as a Wikivoyage app for offline use. But having to install an app because the freaking smartphone won't let you save a bookmark or make a simple scripted icon is absurd (as is the website not letting you access advance features without the app). Yes, the times goes and absurd things become common, while we get rid of other absurd things. And sometimes we have to adopt to others doing absurd things. But to do absurd things just because that is how things are done, that I do not understand. –LPfi (talk) 08:10, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

That may be okay for some but for most, it's inconvenient. If I weren't an editor here; I may as well use tripadvisor due to convenience. TravelAroundOz (talk) 10:32, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

I suppose an app is useful, both as people expect one, and e.g. for offline use. Still, I don't understand why it is more convenient to go to an app store, download and install the app (after checking whether it seems trustworthy), and place the app icon where you want it, than just asking the web browser to add a favicon based icon where you usually want to have them. I rest my case. –LPfi (talk) 10:47, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Downloading an app may feel less convenient to you, but that's not how it feels to most young people. I'm on the oldest end of Generation Z, and a nontrivial proportion of my peers -- and many more people the younger you go -- interact with the internet almost entirely through apps. (I'm considered weird for using Facebook on the mobile website rather than in the app, for instance.) For travel, this is even bigger, because people are more phone-based, and as you might guess from that bracket using apps seems to be overwhelmingly preferred over using mobile sites for whatever reason. Whether it makes sense to you or not, this is overwhelmingly how multiple growing cohorts of people interact with the internet, and a travel site without an app is hampering itself. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 21:50, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes, being born in the middle of Gen Z, I'd say; editing on mobile website is terrible. No one would want to use WV if there isn't an app. TravelAroundOz (talk) 10:22, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

I agree that editing on mobile is awful, across the Wikimedia family. But it's no easy matter to just create an app that allows editing in sync with the website from scratch. I can also see value in an official Wikivoyage/Wikimedia-branded offline app, but again it's easier said than done.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:55, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

After all of this arguments I think we can easily say that: Yes, editing on phone is more difficult than editing on pc but our first goal is creating a guide for people on the travel. If we can't reach to the travelers (taking into account the habits of the users), our effots on this site are in vain. So a official mobile app for WikiVoyage from Wikimedia is important.UcuncuUlus (talk) 22:23, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

I'd also add that when travelling, people are less likely to have their finest smartphone with them, and are more likley to have secondary phones instead. To this end, a KaiOS app would be extremely useful for travellers. KaiOS is used on a lot of cheap/basic feature phones with extended features (most Nokia feature phones use it, including the 800 Tough) that are popular with travellers as they are cheap enough to be disposable, but still have a basic app ecosystem with apps like Google Maps, WhatsApp etc. Wikipedia have a very well made KaiOS app, so that could be a good starting point for WikiVoyage, as the KaiOS default browser doesn't render the wiki sites very well at all. --JasminLovesTheOcean (talk) 14:49, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

That is not the case from people who I know well. I myself generally want to look at WV but end up using trip-advisor instead due to convenience. Plus who has more than one smart phone with them? I have two but one is a satellite phone, not two smart phones. TravelAroundOz (talk) 05:26, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Having an app that works on KaiOS in addition to Android and iOS sounds good, though having one that only works on KaiOS sounds about as worthwhile as not having one at all, considering its market share (0.1% worldwide in 2020, compared to 72% Android and 27.5% iOS). I have to concur with TravelAroundOz about the 'secondary phone' comment -- most people don't own multiple smartphones. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 07:53, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Not sure about whats it like in other countries but here in Australia; we usually only have two phones. A normal one and a satellite one. That's it. TravelAroundOz (talk) 10:13, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

I believe that in India, KaiOS has about 15% of the market share these days.

The arrangements you will take depend upon your risk level. If you're already traveling with a burner laptop (one cheap enough that you don't mind losing it; if you're in a sensitive industry, it will contain only the content that you need to have with you during that trip), then you're probably going to travel with a burner phone, too. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:29, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Agree. We need one for iOS. TravelAroundOz (talk) 20:22, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ A mobile app doesn't make much sense if it's just a viewer, then you can just as well launch the URL in a browser like User:LPfi pointed out. But many mobile devices have additional sensors like GNSS receivers and magnetometers (electronic compass) that laptops don't have. These could be assets that offset the drawback of smaller screens and lack of a proper keyboard to type on. For example the app could blink or vibrate when the user is walking close to a POI [for which WV already has coordinates in the articles] or pop up the picture in the [image] field of a POI to make it easier to find for the user. Or it could have a Skyrim-style horizon that follows direction of heading [using compass] and shows directions of POI types in different icons. With the Wikidata links, it's also possible to fetch opening hours and admission fees for POIs automatically when the user is standing in front of them, and even hide POIs that are closed. 90.244.151.58 12:03, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Bringing back a dead conversation but a version that can be viewed offline would be great significant help to me and most Aussies. Most areas have only very slow 3G networks; which only really works on Telstra. Others are a hit and miss or no mobile signal entirely. Being able to view articles offline would be a great help. And typing up the URL when you've got the worst connection is no help at all. TravelAroundOz (talk) 09:59, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

@TravelAroundOz: Have you tried Kiwix? That's the app I use for viewing Wikivoyage offline in places with no mobile data. It's not perfect, but it's much better than nothing. —Granger (talk · contribs) 11:05, 2 March 2021 (UTC)