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Archived discussions can be found at the following:

Artoba Tours[edit]

Hola @Artobatours: welcome to Wikivoyage. You may be unaware that Wikivoyage has a policy about listing tour companies. If you haven't read that yet, I'd like you to do so, and then if you would please explain why you believe Artoba Tours offers a value-added experience that travellers couldn't replicate themselves without involving your company or one of your competitors. It's not a trick question, but from where I'm sat, having looked at your website, I'm currently of the opinion that we maybe shouldn't be listing your tours, but I am open to be persuaded. Best wishes, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:18, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Having dealt with these listings for a while, I was persuaded myself that its "archaeological" merit might be of interest to the traveller, and that's why I paused my habit of automatically rolling back per WV:Tour and Don't tout and blah blah blah. However, I must agree, this user seems to not have read our policies. Ibaman (talk) 18:27, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @ThunderingTyphoons!: I understand your concern, and I have read the guidelines. Regarding the policy about listing tour companies I can demonstrate why the Artoba Tours deserves special merit and a listing.
    • "The operator must have a "real world" office with a phone number and address where the tour is operated."
      • Yes, as listed.
    • "Tours should offer something as a supplement, rather than a replacement for Wikivoyage guides. They should count as an activity available at a destination (e.g., a helicopter tour of a city, or a camel expedition into the Sahara)."
      • Yes, each and every tour provided by Artoba Tours provides a supplement in terms of getting an opportunity to walk the city, or drive in the countryside, with an expert in the field who gives first hand knowledge of what the traveller is seeing and doing. During the tours, the travellers' visit to Barcelona or other places in Catalonia are contextualised in terms of the one million year story of hominins and humans in this part of the world, and how the multitude of strands of geology, geography, botony, archaeology, history etc etc. all tie together in the street or road that travellers are walking down. This is not something that you can grasp from a guide book, and the activity is learning in the spirit of life long learning, even when on vacation. The same goes for the wine tours and guided hikes that Artoba Tours offers.
    • "If the tour operator is providing a booking service or general travel planning then it should not be listed."
      • No, the listing is not a booking service or general travel planning.
    • "Do not list resellers of tours, only list the actual tour operators."
      • No, the listing is not a reseller.
    • "Always list tour operators if they are requisite to visit a certain area. Examples include tours required by law (e.g., Panmunjeom and Chernobyl) and tours required due to exceptional danger (e.g., war zones and extreme environments such as the Amazon, Antarctica, Space, etc)."
      • Not applicable
    • "This policy doesn't prohibit listing walking tours."
      • The Artoba Tours are both walking tours and driven tours.

—The preceding comment was added by Artobatours (talkcontribs)

That does help a lot, thanks. It seems most or all of the trips are run by a professor of archaeology, which would elevate the tour quite a bit I should think. I remember two contrasting tours in Lanzarote looking at the volcanic landscape, one taken by a professional tour guide who didn't add much except constant - mostly puerile - background noise, and another which was led by a Venezuelan geologist who was super engaging and interesting. You look at mountains and rocks very differently when you have the benefit of an expert, so I imagine having a historian and archaeologist taking you around historical sites would allow a much deeper appreciation than you would necessarily get from just visiting by yourself.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:35, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Artobatours: I made just one small edit, which was to add some price information (something I think is an important part of the "don't tout" policy).  –Nucleosynth (t c) 16:39, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Nucleosynth: Thanks - I edited the prices to match those listed on Artobatours (talk) 21:51, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]