User talk:ThunderingTyphoons!

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Hello, ThunderingTyphoons!! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub. If you are familiar with Wikipedia, take a look over some of the differences here.

Thank you for your Farnborough edits. jan (talk) 14:15, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much jan. I'm excited to get started on this brand new Wiki project! --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:17, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
Great editing job on France! Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:19, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
Why thank you! :-) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:05, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Grammar[edit]

I'm sorry that correct grammar doesn't "sound" good to you, but I assure you the edit you reverted was correct. I would ask you to please reinstate it. LtPowers (talk) 18:27, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

I disagree. My understanding is that this is disputed by grammarians, and that ultimately either is fine. But the proposed wording has the disadvantage of being awkward (not used colloquially) and pedantic. --Peter Talk 18:56, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
Yeah that's what I meant. I'm sorry that the wording in my summary irritated you LtPowers, but I am one of those people who has a good 'gut feeling' for correct grammar, though I am not very good with the proper terminology. I realise my summary doesn't sound very professional and a bit rude and I apologise for that, but like Peterfitzgerald I believe the way the text was originally written agrees better with "concentrations" which is plural and thus flows more naturally. Regards, --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:33, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
Well, I guess my ninth-grade English teacher deserves a stern talking-to. Considering I wrote it that way initially, as well as modern consensus among grammar wonks, I apologize. It will take me some time to unlearn, although perhaps not as long as I think (given the way I wrote it originally). LtPowers (talk) 20:35, 3 May 2013 (UTC)


No need to be rude[edit]

(swept from User_talk:W._Frank)

"move Dundee AGAIN since domestic only and NOT one of the 5 INTERNATIONAL airports, correct typos, etc"

Perhaps you should write a notice to triggerhappy editors in the section since this a persistent (and clearly infuriating) problem, instead of biting someone's head off for making an edit in good faith. Yes, I now realise it reads very clearly that the list is for international airports but it was an honest mistake and not something for which I'd expect to be subject to your short temper. Regards --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:26, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

I was a bit surprised to suddenly find the above on my talk page when I'm not aware of ever having had any interaction with you before.
However, upon checking, I find that the quote relates to an edit summary. Edit summaries are relatively short fields and are intended to briefly explain an edit or the reason for an edit. This one was NOT addressed to anybody in particular and certainly NOT to you. You have obviously taken offence and for that I am truly sorry.
We do rely upon people reading the section they're actually editing. It's simply impractical to leave too many HTML notes and, in this case I don't think your mistake is either important enough or frequent enough to do so. Keep cool this weekend. --W. Franke-mailtalk 21:47, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
TT, this user is generally best ignored, as he likes to stir the pot. --Peter Talk 21:52, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
Thank you both for your responses. Apology accepted, W.Frank. I'm well aware of what an edit summary is but when the summary directly refers to the previous user's work (in this case mine) then it is (IMO) directed at an individual. Anyway, enough said. Enjoy your respective weekends, Peter and W. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:57, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

"mL" is our standard abbreviation for millilitre(s)[edit]

to avoid a perceived confusion with the figure 1 (one) and the lower case l (el) - although I do appreciate it is less commonly seen in the UK.

This convention is according to Wikivoyage:Units#Fluid_volume where it states: "(In order to avoid confusion with the numeral 1 and letter l, L is always capitalized when used as an abbreviation for litre.)" --210.246.47.134 04:13, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for the clarification. After I reverted your edit, I went online and saw that either was considered acceptable so decided I wouldn't bother reacting further if it was changed back. Although the idea that an l could be mistaken for a 1 is a nonsense, "rules is rules", so I'll know to use the mL convention in future. Sorry for the misunderstanding ː-) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:00, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Admin Nomination[edit]

Hi Jamie!

I was just wondering whether you might appreciate an Admin nomination? You've contributed loads to the project and you're a very active editor, doing great work! What says you? :) --Nick talk 03:33, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Nick ː-)
I wasn't aware that I'd contributed all that much to be honest, but I'm pleased that you think I haveǃ I think I would be interested in taking on the role of an admin. Since I've practically all but abandoned my Wikipedia account, this is the main Wiki site I come on and I think it's a worthwhile project. And a travel guide is a lot more fun to edit than a boring old encyclopaediaǃ
Just before I commit to anything, would you say that this page is a good summary of the responsibilities of an admin? If so, you can count me in.
I appreciate the recognition, by the way, not that I'm some kind of fame- and power-hungry narcissist ː-) Cheers --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:24, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
As far as I've seen, that guide sums up the responsibilities quite well, though I'm a bit of a rubbish admin! If that's ok, I'lll get nominating you now! --Nick talk 19:21, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
Nomination up! Good luck! :) --Nick talk 19:55, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
Ah wonderful, thanksǃ --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 23:56, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
There have been some concerns raised at the nomination; could you please respond to them at your earliest convenience? Thanks. --Rschen7754 07:33, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
Hi ThunderingTyphoons, I was just browsing through your edit history out of curiosity. Somehow I've never really come across any of your work and we haven't been in the same discussions, so I feel a bit unqualified to comment on your nomination. Just wanted to say great work on article content though! I hope people's questions will not lessen your enthusiasm. It's all in good faith. Nick has clearly seen a lot more of you than most others have, but his confidence alone says a lot. Cheers, JuliasTravels (talk) 10:32, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
Agreed. I can't speak for anyone else, but my feeling is that we just want to hear from you and have a chance to think about whatever you have to say.
All the best,
Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:23, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Mistake?[edit]

Your edit summary states "The long name (which btw is just "Republic of Azerbaijan") is not needed.", but the actual edit you've made restores the long name: [1]. I assume that was inadvertent and should be undone, or am I misunderstanding? -- Ryan • (talk) • 18:47, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Oh yes, you're completely rightǃ I've been away for a while and the joy I feel at being back must have made me temporarily colour blind. Thanks for the heads up, it's fixed now ː-) Best wishes, --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:13, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Thank you![edit]

Thank you for catching my error in editing... Matroc (talk) 06:19, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

No problem ː-) It was obviously just a mistake. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 07:23, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Sheffield[edit]

I used to live in Sheffield and went to the same uni as you :) What is Tours like? I've been to places further south (Languedoc, Marseille and Montpellier so far). Crookesmoor (talk) 13:55, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Nice to see another Sheffield student on Wikivoyage :) Tours is lovely, very typically French in almost every way but also a bit off the typical tourist trail. I haven't actually been to any of the places you mentioned; do you recommend them? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:44, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

An award for you![edit]

Barncompass.png The Wikivoyage Barncompass
Next to excellence is the appreciation of it. So here is your medal of appreciation. We need ten thousand thundering typhoons like you! Well done Jamie. Saqib (talk) 14:27, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Thank you so much, Saqib, it's an honour! Best, Jamie (--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:42, 3 March 2015 (UTC))

Thank you[edit]

Hi Jamie!

After waking up from my very long hibernation, I was reading our United Kingdom article yesterday. I just wanted to congratulate on the fantastic lead paragraph you've written - it sounds very professional and I don't know how I'd better it.

I was also wondering whether you'd fancy another nomination to become an admin - I think you're a very worthy candidate. I know that last time I did it, the consensus was 'not yet', but now, with several years under your belt, I'd hope the outcome would be different!

Hope you're well!

Nick talk 22:44, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi Nick!
Nice to have you back from the land of the living to service the Wikigod anew.
Your praise means a lot, as does your belief in my admin worthiness. However, I'm content with what I do on the site now, which is not a lot of much importance that I enjoy all the same. At any rate, I doubt I involve myself enough in policy discussion to justify an admin nomination. And sometimes I write rude words in articles! So thanks ever so much for the offer, but no thanks.
With specific regard to leads and summaries, all too often they are just geographic descriptions lacking in anything to make you want to visit the place; and since I like being all hyperbolic and flowery it's a perfect distraction for me.
One more thing, if you ever feel like making page banners again, can I cheekily direct you toward here and here?
All the best,
Jamie :-)
(ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 02:28, 27 June 2015 (UTC), and all that jazz)
Nice work Jamie and welcome back Nick. --Saqib (talk) 05:41, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Bond, James Bond[edit]

Hi there. I don't think there's a copyright on using the name "James Bond" once in a book or website, as long as we don't print shirts with his name and try to sell them or something. Do you suppose Disney would go after us for mentioning Mickey Mouse in the Disney World article? (I didn't check whether he's mentioned or not, but it sure would be logical.) Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:13, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

You're probably right. I actually think the Martini 'joke' works better without namedropping Bond. For your interest, Mickey is mentioned by name 18 times in the Disney World article, so I should think we'd be fine :) Thanks, --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 02:17, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
I got a chuckle out of the number of times. Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:24, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

United Kingdom[edit]

Hi, I really don't think that it's helpful to tell prospective tourists that all of the UK's cities are as "charming and inviting" as London. It's simply not factually correct, and reads like empty puffery. Many of the UK's cities don't have much to offer tourists. Regards, Nick-D (talk) 07:29, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, perhaps you're right about "charming and inviting", Nick, as well as suggesting everywhere is on an equal footing with London. Though merely leaving it as "interesting" isn't particularly accurate either. Your new edit is much better anyway.
But allow me to stick up for my country a bit. All the cities listed in the UK article have a hell of a lot to offer tourists, and the same goes for many which aren't listed. The ones which have little to offer (I would say the likes of Southampton, Milton Keynes and Preston) are in the minority. And I think we are absolutely here to sell the idea of travel to our readers, and for that we have to be positive about the places we're writing about. Thanks, Nick. Regards --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:34, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
No worries. I have to say that I'm influenced here by seeing some fairly dull UK cities! (Liverpool for instance). I have enjoyed my three trips to the UK though. Nick-D (talk) 11:01, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
Next time you're over here, you must go to Liverpool again. I have family from there, and when I used to visit as a child, and even fairly recently (in the late 2000s) it was dull as dishwater, really grotty and deprived-looking. In the last five years, however, it really has changed for the better, it's a totally transformed city. My grandad is an 87-year-old Liverpudlian and says it's the best he's ever seen the city. Give our article a read if you like :) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:49, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I have heard it's improved greatly since I visited in 2006 - much of the city was a building site then, so the results would be interesting. Nick-D (talk) 23:21, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Lima metro[edit]

Sorry, I undid your Lima/Eastern Lima edit because I noticed our friend Turbo8000 had moved around districts and deleted the map unilaterally once more, and only by an undo could I get back there. I think the new text in 'Metro' is OK? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:55, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

No big deal :) I guess "Línea 1" can go too. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:57, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Oh, another thing. Does the map look okay to you? It looks wonky on my screen, specifically in the top left "Bay ecto ciales" are I assume fragments of placenames. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:59, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Patrolling etc[edit]

Hi, Jamie. I came across a new user's edit somewhere, and saw you had "fixed" it to meet our guidelines but didn't mark it as patrolled. I realized that option has never been turned on for you and I think that's an oversight on our side. I've asked Ryan (as a bureaucrat) to give you patrolling rights. I remember your admin nomination ended in a "not yet", a long time ago, because you were fairly new. You seem mostly interested in writing content (which is great!), but if you're also doing some patrolling these days, I could of course nominate you again, if you'd like. Thanks for you all your great work on content :-) JuliasTravels (talk) 15:26, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Many thanks, JuliasTravels, both for the patrolling rights and for the offer of a nomination. Regarding admin, that is not something which interests me at the moment, but never say never. Ask me again in two years' time :-) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:17, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Low cost, especially with respect to things that are not airlines[edit]

While I grant you that "low cost airlines" are arguably something that has a recognized definition (Though there are many airlines that intentionally blur that line) how exactly would you define the difference between a "low cost" bus operator from a "normal" bus operator? Arguably Megabus is "low cost" the same way Flixbus is (or both aren't). The low cost airline model (short turnarounds, pilots hired only after training, one model fleet, airports with low landing fees) is either not applicable to buses or practiced by both those companies. And frankly "low cost" already sounds touty when used for airlines (where I accept it as a somewhat meaningful term), it does not have any established meaning outside of that... Or am I missing something?

Kind regards. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:22, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Hobbitschuster. I think all of those points you've made are valid, except that Megabus is just known as a low-cost coach operator (in the UK, perhaps not elsewhere), which presumably must purely be based on the basic facilities (presumambly not as comfortable as National Express, etc...) and most importantly the very low fares; London to Paris can cost just £1.50, now if that's not low-cost, I don't know what is! --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:25, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
Well the general business model of all German bus operators is to be "low cost" to some degree or other. Because not undercutting Deutsche Bahn's price is an absolute no-sell. And on the few routes where the train is not much faster, there is so much competition, that only the cheap survive. And Flixbus is notorious for moving out of cities if/when the station access charges get too high. The symbolic one Euro tickets are unique to Megabus, true, but other operators do have "ten Euros anywhere" tickets... And they are much easier to get than Megabus' stuff... Maybe we can split the difference and say that Megabus markets itself as low cost and say how that manifests. (Though other bus operators - at least in Germany - also emphasize price in marketing...) Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:29, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
I can get on board with that, especially since you seem to know more about it than me. But the difference between transport in Britain (privatised semi free-for-all) and Germany (DB monopoly) are so great that any comparisons of what counts as low-cost in one country is not going to apply for the other. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:35, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
It's a bit more complicated than DB monopoly in Germany (regional trains are - at least in most cases - contracted out in open bidding, whereas long distance trains can be run by anybody but don't receive any subsidy), but on the whole you are right, that the transportation networks are very dissimilar. Interestingly the opening of the bus market (in 2012, another huge difference to Britain) reduced the amount of competition on rails as some companies that had been running long distance trains in competition with DB or were thinking about doing so got out of the market as buses undercut their prices. One operator said that their track access charges per seat were equal to the price the bus asked for a ticket. It's not hard to see how that tends to harm business. On the other hand the bus operators in Germany are if anything only just now entering profitable territory, which is most likely different in Britain. One British company (their brand in Germany was City2City, I think the name behind it was national something) got out of the market rather quickly, because this ruinous competition caught them off-guard. I'd wager that regardless of the mode (with the possible exception of air travel) getting from one end of Germany to the other is cheaper than the equivalent journey in Britain. I have thus far not taken Megabus, but my brother has and he says they only used one driver for a rather long journey, thus making a stop necessary. Most other operators in Germany have two drivers or a change en route... If this is a general thing with them, it might bare mention... Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:04, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
Just about everything transport-related is Britain is inferior to Germany - we have Deutshe Bahn too, but they call themselves something else and are run the local way (cram as many passengers in as few carriages as possible).
I haven't used Megabus either, nor its sister project Megatrain. Actually, I try to avoid coach travel where at all possible (you just can't beat chugging along in a train, even if it is overcrowded!), so my experience is limited to school trips and a Tours to Madrid overnighter with Alsa Internacional - they did pause to change drivers along the way, but only at Poitiers which was barely an hour into the journey, and the driver conformed to Spanish meal times, which led to plenty of rumbling stomachs and grumbling Frenchmen as 9PM came and went without a dinner stop. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:45, 6 June 2016 (UTC)--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:45, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
I have tried to avoid buses as well. They tend to be maddeningly slow. But in a place like Nicaragua "there is no alternative" to the bus. Unless you have your own car (or horse) and know how to drive (ride) along those roads... Though I have been on a couple of buses in Germany. I was quite impressed by that one Czech company on the Berlin-Dresden route, where the rail connection has literally seen better days (in the 1930s of all eras). Five Euros and airline style entertainment at your seat are hard to beat, but I doubt they made much money off of that... Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:02, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Urban Rail[edit]

Ah, sorry about the inline links. apologies. Nope this wasn't a copy paste. this was my own effortShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:49, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

No problem. What you wrote was a very good start, I hope to have simply built on it. As a heads up to yourself, I'm not really behind on the inclusion of the Glasgow Subway, but I'll raise that for discussion on the article's talk page. Have a good evening, --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:00, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

"hygge" and "Gemütlichkeit"[edit]

I have heard they are broadly similar, but apparently they are not the same and the German term is much less of a (political) philosophy than the Danish concept. But yes, "coziness" is the closest translation but it does not quite capture the meaning in either case. The word also appears in this rather quaint drinking song, which usually is really just the first part "Ein Prosit der Gemütlichkeit". Which by the way despite its modern day association with Bavaria was written in Saxony. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:11, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Ah, very interesting snippets of information! As I understand it, they're cosiness plus something harder to define, like communal enjoyment or something like that? The atmosphere of a decent English country pub would probably be similar, so it's surprising we don't have a specific word.
By the way, I'm rewriting the UK's appalling 'Get in by plane' section closely based on what's written on the Germany article, which I imagine you had a large hand in creating, so thanks for that. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:18, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
I can't talk for Denmark, but I guess that's a fair assessment for the German term. Also, objects can be "gemütlich" as well, but it goes beyond just "bequem" (comfortable) which can even have a negative connotation in some contexts. And you're welcome. Our get in sections are rather prominently placed in the articles but often look nothing like ready for prime-time with a lot of questionable and/or outdated information, so adding that information is very worthwhile. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:47, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
Mostly, the UK one suffers from being overlong and way too concerned with specific details of individual airports. I didn't even realise German words could have Qs in them! --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:52, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
Apart from some very specific exceptions (all of them foreign names and none of them common) a "q" in German is always accompanied by an "u" and the result sounds quite similar to "kw" or "kv" Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:11, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for your work on United Kingdom[edit]

The article has much improved and as an added benefit it now only has 3% of "copied content" according to copyscape. It's always great to have local knowledge and well flowing prose. Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:39, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the support :-) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:42, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
You're welcome. Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:44, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
That copyscape wouldn't happen to say where the copied content is, would it? I'm assuming not, but... --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:45, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
It does, line by line. It has some false positives on individual lines, but overall it's pretty good. Just enter the relevant URLs here and you will see them compared side by side. Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:54, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

murals[edit]

Given your recent edit to Brussels, I am not sure you are aware of our article on murals that needs some love. But maybe you were referring to something else. On the trail of Franco-Belgian comic artists perchance? Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:05, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Well, I was specifically referring to what I understand is a fairly extensive number of murals in Brussels inspired by Hergé's comics. At some point, I'll look into them and add them to the article (never been to Brussels, so would have to rely on the internet). I am also interested in street art as well, so may take a look at murals when I have the time. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:44, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
Ah, okay. That makes sense. Do you think comics in general or their Franco-Belgian variety in particular have enough travel relevance to be covered in a standalone travel topic here? Many of them do take place in fictional or fictionalized locations, but their creators often have left places to visit and those murals do seem interesting as well. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:41, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
Any topic can be found to have travel relevance, it's just a case of whether it's really worth spending any time on creating what will inevitably become another stub that nobody visits, when we have so many existing articles in such a bad state. So for now, I don't think comics should have their own article (and I have no intention of creating or working on one), but anything comic-related could be added to literary travel or, in the case of specific locations heavily connected to comics like Brussels, to destination articles. If and when there is enough comic content spread across the site, then it can be pooled into an article of its own. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 00:45, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
That makes sense. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:53, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Thanks[edit]

Thanks for your welcome - yes, the username is Anglo-Saxon for "the people of Somerset" - though I currently live in Worcestershire! Sumorsǣte (talk) 17:34, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

It was my pleasure, and thank you for answering. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:03, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

your sandbox[edit]

just helping out. I think medieval was misspelled. --Garvysolaz (talk) 21:39, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

Bonjour, Garvysolaz :-) Thanks for your help, and welcome to Wikivoyage! Just to let you know what I'm doing, I'm merging the regions per the discussion at the bottom of Talk:France. Until the new region pages are finished, everything is and should remain in my userspace, so while I appreciate your creation of Grand-Est, it is premature by a couple of weeks. For now, I've put in a redirect to Northeastern France. But if you have anything you'd like to add to any of the three completed regions (those marked with Yes Done), you can go ahead. Best wishes, --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:04, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

Map for France[edit]

Hi there,

I see you are still working on reorganising the regions of France. It looks like a lot of work, so good luck with that!

Anyway, I modified the map a while ago according to your proposal, but so far it's only in SVG version. This is so that if there are any changes, I don't have to keep on re-uploading both formats. For the final version however, we should probably use a jpg or png, so whenever you are ready or close to ready for the switch to the new regions, do ping me and I'll upload that version as well. (I'm a bit scared I might miss it if it's on the Talk:France page.) Also if you want me to make any more changes, you can also ping me anytime.

Drat70 (talk) 00:57, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

@Drat70: Thanks very much for your advice and help so far; I'll be sure to let you know when everything's ready to go.
There is actually one thing I was meaning to ask you a bit later in the process, but now is as good a time as any. When making the region list, each region obviously requires a colour. Currently, I have no way of knowing which exact colours you used in the map, so figuring out which code to use in the template is nigh on impossible. Am I just being thick, or is this something you could look at and implement? You're welcome to edit my sandbox for that purpose. Remember there's no great rush, --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:03, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
The colours are from the standard template for region maps (File:Regions_map_template.svg), unfortunately there seems to be no list with the corresponding colour codes. I added the right colours now in your sandbox. I made a minor change to the map and gave Corsica a different colour. As there are 13 regions here, but only 11 colours in the template, I also had to make up two new colours, I hope it doesn't look too ugly. Drat70 (talk) 03:48, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, that looks good. In all this time on Wikivoyage, I've never noticed the colours were standardised. Merci encore, --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:49, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Edit deleted[edit]

Hello ThunderingTyphoons!

I made edits on visiting Turkey (https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Turkey) I added common flight search engines but I see that you have deleted them since it contained web site of a commercial company. Could you please let me understand better how my edit was different than below information (this is also in the same page). Just want to now better, and contribute better.

Thank you in advance.


You can also use the following search engines to find long distance buses. The majority of the big companies are covered:

Neredennereye.com
Govego.com
obilet

Best Zeynep

Merhaba, Zeynep. You are right; there is no difference between your edits and the links to bus search engines, which are also against policy. I have now deleted them. Sometimes undesirable edits go unnoticed until someone brings attention to them, so thank you for that :)
The common theme between the flight and bus search engines is that they are not primary sources. We can and do link to the websites of airlines and bus companies, when those companies sell tickets direct to their passengers, but we do not link to third party resellers or comparison sites. Check out What not to link to for a fuller explanation of this.
Thank you for taking the time to understand and work with our policies; it is really appreciated. Best wishes, Jamie (ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:52, 12 October 2017 (UTC))


Merhaba ThunderingTyphoons! , =) Thank you very much for the clarification. I really appreciate your time and effort.

Bir şey değil :) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:52, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Pakistani big banners[edit]

Thanks for stepping in, TT. Dealing with this kind of new/fast users is never very comfortable to me. I tend to approach such situations lightly, not wanting to "scare new Wikivoyagers", and to get lenient. You did right. Thumbs up Ibaman (talk) 16:36, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind words, Ibaman. The banners themselves were quite nice; I hope the user is able to modify them to the correct standard. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:57, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

Coach[edit]

Yes, it's true that "coach" can refer to a bus in the U.S., but it's a fancy term, and at least my impression is that the default meaning for "coach" in the U.S., when it's not referring to a class of airline seat, is a train car. So yeah, I think that the entry in English language varieties is helpful. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:01, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Hi! Thanks for letting me know. Would people in the U.S. use or understand either one of "economy (class)" or "standard class" when referring to air / rail / boat (etc.) travel? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:09, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
Economy (class), yes. I'm not sure whether "standard class" would refer to 2nd class or 1st class. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:11, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
Standard class is just a synonym of economy / 2nd class. Maybe worth mentioning in the article. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:26, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
Agreed, since I didn't know what it meant. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:13, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
I know "coach" as a job title for a sports trainer, sometimes spoken with more reverence than "professor". I always find its usages for buses supremely weird. On another note, the cheapest class on flights in particular but sometimes also on trains is sometimes semi-jokingly referred to as "Holzklasse" or wood class in German. Does any English dialect know a similar term? Hobbitschuster (talk) 06:21, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
@Hobbitschuster: The word coach comes from the days of the stagecoach, and the Wiktionary etymology is interesting. It certainly predates (ommi)bus by several centuries. If "wood class" is referring to the passengers being transported like they were pieces of wood rather than people, the English equivalent is "cattle class". If the meaning is different, then I can't think of an equivalent. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:38, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
No the word "Holzklasse" refers to way back when, when the cheapest seats were just bare wood with no upholstery whatsoever. Maybe we should be glad the term doesn't exist in English or there'd be an airline trying to rip out even bigger parts of what one would consider seats, to limit soft surfaces to what the passenger brings. After all, bare plastic is easier to clean... Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:06, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
The next Ryanair cut back will be to remove all seating. Passengers may sit on the floor or on top of their (20 kg limit) hand luggage. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:20, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
Well apparently there are regulations requiring everyone to have a seat. Ryanair did talk out loud about "standing seats", though... Otherwise some airline might make planes into flying capsule hotels and charge a premium for this new "sleeper class" Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:33, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

An award for you! 2[edit]

Barncompass.png The Wikivoyage Barncompass
For being willing and able to change your mind, and for having the courage to say so. Happy and successful communities depend upon people like you. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:29, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
What a surprise! Thank you very much :-) ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:10, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

Thank you 2[edit]

Just wanted to say thank you for correcting my edit.

I had not properly read the guidelines for editing wikivoyage compared to wikipedia (just discovered wikivoyage yesterday!) and pointing me to the correct point was very helpful. According to the guidelines it would be appropriate to link to the official tourist website for the location (York), could we perhaps add the trails/itinerary section under ghost walks but link to the visityork website instead as I am sure they have them also. Just trying to add something useful to the user; alternatively, you could link to https://www.treasuretrails.co.uk website as they produce trails to purchase for York and other cities, which I think also fits the guidelines.

Thanks

Hi, 2a02:c7d:4b01:9100:21bf:9520:b274:767 welcome to Wikivoyage and thanks for being willing to adapt to our policies.
The official York tourism website is already linked, right at the top of the page. We can link to it more than once, but generally it's best to limit the number of external links.
We generally only link to things which add value to the traveller's experience beyond what is written in our articles. The ghost walks definitely count as this, because they're led by a guide who tells spooky stories in a charismatic way, and probably has some kind of costume or other gimmick that tourists like! Following that criteria, you could definitely have a listing for Treasure Trails, with a link to the website and information on pricing.
On the other hand, I'm not convinced there's great value in linking to pages about self-guided walks around the city, as we can and should include all that information on Wikivoyage. If you know of a good walking itinerary around York, please do add information about it, including a description of the route, the main sights along the way and a rough idea of how far it is. An external link to a route map might be helpful, but would not be essential.
Hope this all makes sense; let me know if not. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:36, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Sheffield 2[edit]

Nice work! Ground Zero (talk) 06:20, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Thank you :) ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:50, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

What Ambiguity (Addressing Yet again)[edit]

Updated listing for Rickmansworth Station - What ambiguity? There's only one Station Approach at WD3 1QY The ambiguity that under some SatNav and mapping systems postcode is not adequate and can take you to places up to 8 miles away without reporting any error. This was discussed several months ago and I was then told that I should add that comment and leave the town name included.

If that consensus has changed then let me know now and I'll spend my time on projects other than WikiVoyage. I was angered about it then, got it resolved and now that decision seems to have changed again.

It looking at street name and postcode you have completely missed the issues on some SatNav and mapping systems.

As I said back then, I am not prepared to spend my time and effort in what my experience has shown is a flawed and limited addressing system. On other software I have spent far too long helping resolve issues caused by address abbreviation and I'm not going to spend my time arguing with people who have not had that experience and so are unaware of the limitations of software systems. WikiVoyage is used by far more than "the human eye"

So I need an answer before I continue to spend my time on WikiVoyage. And if the previous decision has changed, glad I found only a day into restarting contributing PsamatheM (talk) 13:32, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Hi, and welcome back. First of all, I am sorry that this has angered you. That wasn't my intention. It is also not my intention to argue with or berate anyone.
I wasn't aware of the previous discussion, or if I once was, I have since forgotten. You wouldn't happen to have a link to it, would you? If there was, as you say, a decision made and consensus reached, then my edits may well be in the wrong. To my knowledge, there has been no additional decision made in your absence.
Please bear in mind that whatever consensus may have been reached in that discussion, adding the town name is still an exception to the rule that we generally don't do. You can't and shouldn't expect everyone to have a months-old discussion at the forefront of their minds when editing, when the results of that discussion haven't been written into policy. Most editors will implement the standard policy, which by the way still reads: "Do not include the city (if the same as the page title), the state/province or postal code (except for addresses in the United Kingdom, which should include the post code." This is what my edit was based on, and nothing more. If there has been a policy change, the wording on that page is outdated, and should be changed.
But as I said, if you could link to the discussion you referred to, that would help clear things up. Primarily, it would be helpful to know exactly under what circumstances it is acceptable to ignore standard policy and add the town name, and when we should still adhere to policy.
Finally, I had noticed you were back editing, and was going to leave you a "welcome back" message on your talk page! Obviously events have overtaken that, but I still want to thank you for coming back after a lengthy absence, and hope you decide to stay.
Best wishes, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:13, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
I don't have a link to the old discussions. I had explained how whilst for the Royal Mail postcode is moderately explicit, some SatNavs and some mapping system seem to use postcode as well as other address elements with differing priorities that neither I (nor anybody else I've worked with on this) understand. But the results can be horrible. This was brought home to me yesterday when I had to attend an appointment somewhere new 10 miles away so put the address into a mapping system to find the way and instead of the Norfolk town 10 miles away it mapped to somewhere in Sevenoaks, Kent - and it had the correct postcode. Same address in another mapping system and it worked fine. The issues come with address abbreviation. I've spent many hours helping a major software company sort out such issues with their own multi-platform commercial Calendar software (issues with event location and display of maps of event location).
For me one of the great strengths of WikiVoyage is that it goes far beyond human eye reading a web page (e.g. offline use in apps e.g. PocketEarth on iOS, etc.). And then you are into semi-automated use of addresses in non-WV systems (without that human eye remembering the section/page title).
So for me, if I am going to spend my time and effort adding data to a resource I need to know that my contribution will be worthwhile and applicable to all uses of the data and not potentially misdirect people when used in non-WV software. If others chose to add partial entries then adding a partial entry is better than no entry and everybody contributes what they can (as time and knowledge permit).
I've not re-itterated all aspects to the importance of a full address here, just pointing out a few of the reasons raised to highlight that there are good arguments. Plus, in many cases where I've put in the town/village I've actually shortened the entry overall anyway (Avenue -> Av, Monday -> M, Tuesday -> Tu, etc., etc.)
So after discussion in public areas on WV (I don't know of any non-public communications anyway) it was decided/I was told to add the comment Town needed in address to avoid ambiguity (with the comment prefix/postfix) and people would then not edit out the town. PsamatheM (talk) 15:39, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
Sure, that all makes sense. Thank you for taking the trouble to explain. I understand the background issues better now.
So, is your default editing style to always include the town name, or are there times when it's sufficiently unambiguous? I ask, because depending on your answer, my response is going to be very different.
(1) If you basically think the peculiarities of different external software are always going to require the town name to be used, then there should be a discussion arguing for a change in policy across the board, so Wikivoyage can accommodate the different software. Not only that, I hope you'll agree that one editor following a different formatting style to everyone else is not helpful for the site overall. If there is a problem with our current listings policy, you either need to make the case for it to be changed, or (to put it bluntly) conform to the existing policy.
(2) On the other hand, if you're only adding the town name to certain listings with addresses / postcodes that you know to be problematic for external software, then the existing arrangement with you adding an explanatory comment is enough for me to say "Sorry. My mistake. As you were." I would take no issue with you adding town names to certain cases where there is ambiguity, but you will have to accept that other editors who don't know about this arrangement will probably react the same way I have today, so you should unfortunately be prepared to repeat yourself again, and again...
Do you see the distinction I'm making here? Not sure I've explained it all that well.
The above should not be seen as me laying down the law. It's just my opinion as an editor with no more authority than you. But if your answer is closer to (1) than (2), then I strongly recommend arguing for a change in policy, which you would do here. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:43, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
The difficulty is that there are many different mapping and SatNav systems and software and they are periodically updated and previous fixes can occasionally revert, etc. So testing each address on the many variants now and in the future would mean each listing would take many hours of work to ensure that whatever navigation system you were using took you to the establishment and not many miles away. Plus, there is one fairly mainstream software provider who will routinely remove the last part of a postcode entered (i.e. enter AB1 2CD and they will process that to be just AB1) - although their own apps hav mostly been fixed, their internal APIs used by other apps often have not!
So generally I include the town as a precaution so it will work even when some mainstream software/hardware company decides to remove the last part of the postcode. My argument is that including the town does not add that much to the length (page inches) of the listing compared to the grief that omitting it can risk cause for users. Plus those "column inches" can often be recovered by Avenue -> Av, Monday -> M, etc.
I don't spend my time trawling through existing listings doing no more than adding the town. But when I'm working on a page (most of my effort I put in to "Outline" pages trying to get them to "usable") then I might update existing listings to include the town whilst verifying and updating other aspects of the listing (e.g. Monday -> M, etc.). But it's not a personal project to add the town to all WV listings. What is, is and update only as and when things need to be added to/updated.
(I should add a personal note that I'm not as I might be coming across in that I don't expect every detail on WV to be exactly how I want it. My personal preference would be e.g. for UK phone numbers for the last 6 digits to be formatted as 2 groups of 3 digits as I find that easier - but it's not such a big deal and I'm happy that the format has already been established. I make a big deal of the addresses because of the grief and time I've spent outside WV with these issues)
Above is talking about UK. However similar problems can exist in other countries and do not depend on postcode area e.g. France where a city is close to a postcode border and you have e.g. Pl de l'eglise (sic) or one of the very common street names used in France.
I could change the comment to e.g. "Town deliberately included as per previous discussions too lengthy to detail here". When previously discussed those discussing were resistant to a formal change of policy and decided the comment route was the best way forward (maybe because only a few joined in the discussion) PsamatheM (talk) 17:29, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
"Those discussing were resistant to a formal change of policy" - Sadly, that is often the way with these things. Even for myself, I see obvious merit in adding the town name where there is an issue, but changing policy due to someone else's problem (the someone else being the other software) seems like a big step.
However, I accept that it's something you're only doing on an 'as and when' basis, and don't really want to make a fuss :-)
Actually, sometimes I add the postcode to French listings as well, at least when a listing is in a different commune to the main city. Because the postcode comes before the town name, rather than after it as in the UK, they nearly always seem to show up on sat navs and route planners, even though they're ultimately far less useful than UK codes for actually finding an address. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:10, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
The example (screen capture) I mentioned from an appointment the other day (though I've masked out the name, phone no and web site of the provider) <https://psamathe.eu/Temp%20Images/Nov%202017/Example%20Calendar%20Masked.PNG> (not enough of an issue to bother uploading/clogging up WikiCommons and I know such external links break policy but given personal page if you want to see the example delete the link afterwards if you want). PsamatheM (talk) 09:58, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

France region maps[edit]

Hi, thanks for the kind words on the region maps. You did a fantastic job too putting the new region pages together. -Shaundd (talk) 07:57, 18 November 2017 (UTC)