User talk:LPfi

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Hello, LPfi! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub. --Saqib (talk) 21:52, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. I think I mostly know my way, with experience from Wikipedia & al (I've read some of the guides here also). If you think the way I work could be improved, I'll be thankful for specific advice. --15:31, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for writing Hiking in the Nordic countries. It's a great article. All the best, Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:10, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
Thank you. I am glad you like it. --LPfi (talk) 10:35, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
I'd like to echo that, shaping up nicely, thanks! --Stefan (sertmann) talk 19:10, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

And a thanks for me in taking an interest in Cruising on small craft—it's a topic I have a lot of interest in. --Peter Talk 18:37, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

I'd be happy to help, but I think we need more people with experience in the area. I might write something about the Baltic Sea, but I think at least somebody knowing about Germany or Poland would be needed to make anything worthwhile out of it (I might be able to handle Finland and Sweden). --LPfi (talk) 09:41, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
Write what you can, it will encourage someone to add the parts you can't do yourself. Cheers, • • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 10:01, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
I'll probably try at some point and we'll see whether it works. I am a little bit afraid of premature generalisations that may slip in. --LPfi (talk) 13:38, 21 January 2013 (UTC) - I really like that one - I think it is possibly a good template article to follow for other parts of the world! sats (talk) 08:24, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
Thank you. --LPfi (talk) 17:07, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Helsinki districts[edit]

Morjens! :) Me and Danapit are discussing splitting up Helsinki in separate districts. Come and have your say! Ypsilon (talk) 09:53, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

OK. I am no expert, but I commented. --LPfi (talk) 13:47, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Archipelago Sea[edit]

Great job with Archipelago Sea! Danapit (talk) 15:04, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. Nice to hear you like it. --LPfi (talk) 18:39, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Regions of Finland[edit]

Hello! I was wondering if you have seen the discussion on reorganization of Finnish regions? What do you think? --Danapit (talk) 10:48, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

I have been taking a look now and then. As you may have noted, I dislike the division according to the "new" (now obsolete) provinces, so I do not oppose changes. I do not have much comments on the present suggestion, though, at least not before finding ϒpsilon's map. --LPfi (talk) 10:57, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
Thank you :) --Danapit (talk) 11:00, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
I'll start implementing the changes now. I've already uploaded a new version of the map. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:39, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Exchanging of currencies phased out in favour of the Euro[edit]

Hi, I saw your edit in the European Union's article relating to the Euro. While I agree there may be a small probability of tourists getting conned into buying or accepting some amounts of an obsolete currency, I find the passage suggesting it can be exchanged unnecessary - it is highly unlikely a tourist would find themselves in such a situation. And if they did, it is still better for them to contact the actual central bank rather than be advised by a tour guide they can still do something very unlikely. I was also surprised to learn just now that Latvias Banka will still exchange Lats for Euros after the window closes, but I believe this is an exception to the rule - most central banks do not FWIK. PrinceGloria (talk) 15:25, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

I think you are right about tourists getting old currency. They should not accept it, although I have no opinion whether the risk of such incidents is big enough to be mentioned (it was removed with a comment suggesting the editor hadn't thought about the issue). For central banks, yes, most (central) banks are exchanging currency long after it has become obsolete, e.g. in Finland for ten years or the like. But for the average tourist, finding a bank doing the exchange and knowing what currencies can still be exchanged is too much of a hassle. --LPfi (talk) 11:10, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
I believe Finland stopped exchanging the currency - I just checked that you cannot exchange the old Finnish mark anymore. The first countries who did this did leave a long window as this was largely an experiment (the last time European countries adopted hamornized currencies was in the 19th century with the Latin Monetary Union), but the following countries saw that as unnecessary and shortened the period considerably. The original countries have already closed their windows FWIK, and the only open window is Latvia's. At any rate, I guess this is an invented problem a tourist wouldn't rather encounter, and I guess we agree this should not be mentioned. PrinceGloria (talk) 19:29, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
PS. What's with the situation in Finland? The law says that the retailers do not have to accept 0.01 and 0.02 and allows Swedish rounding, and I am being informed most retailers do take advantage of this provision. Can you pay with 0.01 or 0.02 at McDonalds or R-Kioski?
Yes, since the last of February 2012 "grandma's markkas" can no longer be directly changed to Euros. One needs to go to numismatic stores, just like with 100 year old coins and bills. BTW if you are exchanging money in an European country at a real exchange booth, the risk that they are going to hand you some worthless old currency is very small compared to black market exchange in some lesser traveled part of the world.
Over here, if you pay your purchases by card you will pay the exact sum. If you pay by cash they round it up or down so that the price ends in 0 or 5. The Bank of Finland and the Bureau of Competition and Consumer's Protection say that 1 and 2 cent coins are legal tender, however individual establishments may refuse to accept them if they clearly state it in writing outside the shop, eatery or whatever. I vaguely remember seeing such notes on the doors of establishments when the Euro arrived but I can't remember seeing/noticing anything like that lately. So basically one should be able to pay with 1 and 2 cent coins, but if the final sum is e.g. €4.48 you need an additional 2 cent (or two 1 cents) because they are going to ask for €4.50. Disclaimer: I've never tried to pay with the smallest coins in Finland, though. ϒpsilon (talk) 20:04, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
This is my impression also (living in Finland), although I did never notice any "1 and 2 cent refused" signs and the information to the public I have read mostly just explain you can pay with those coins, but not to avoid the rounding (nothing about possibility to refuse).
I agree the exchange options should be irrelevant for the traveller. In numismatic stores the price depends on the quality of the coin or note and is probably bad for ordinary money. I think the long exchange period was about domestic tradition: Until the early 1990s any Finnish markka was legal tender (although only a fool would pay with money more than a few decades old).
--LPfi (talk) 07:42, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

pets on ferries[edit]

Hi, I see you made an edit regarding pets on cross channel ferries. Would be interested to know which ones allow pets on deck as I have never been able to find one. --Traveler100 (talk) 18:18, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

I don't know about ferries of the English channel, but "short and medium haul ferries" is quite a broad category. E.g. on Viking Line and Tallink Silja between Helsinki and Tallinn (about the same length, I suppose) pets are allowed to stay in the vehicle, to travel in cabins reserved for the purpose or to travel in a cage. There are pet toilets on deck at least on the Viking Line ships. Pets are also welcome on deck on many (nearly all?) ferries in the Finnish archipelago. For the longer passage TurkuStockholm (11 hours, would this be "medium haul"?), pets are allowed in the cabins (if reserved for one party) and on deck, guide dogs nearly anywhere. Not all of the ferries take pets, though. --LPfi (talk) 06:25, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

External link fixes in the Venice article[edit]

Thanks a lot! How did you do that? Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:07, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Copy to emacs, then search "[http:", adjust mark or text manually if needed, manipulate the string between mark (beginning of link text) and "]" automatically with a trivial macro, find next. The pure syntax changes were fast (and could have been even faster), but there were many non-standard expressions. --LPfi (talk) 13:28, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Säilytystä Turun satamassa / Förvaring i Åbo hamn[edit]

Näytät osaavan sekä suomea että ruotsia, joten en viitsi kysyä englanniksi.

Onko Turun satamassa säilytyslokeroita, joihin voisin laittaa ison partiolaisrinkan siksi ajaksi joka kuluu hotellistani uloskirjautumisen ja laivalle lähtemisen välillä? Rinkka on noin metrin pitkä ja painaa täytenä melkein 10 kg. Se menee helposti Tukholman rautatieaseman isoimpiin säilytyslokeroihin, mutta ei pienimpiin.

Du verkar kunna förstå båda finska och svenska, så jag ska inte fråga på engelska.

Finns det förvaringslådor i Åbo hamn som jag skulle kunna lämna en stor scoutryggsäck för den tiden emellan check-out från mitt hotell och skeppets avgång? Ryggsäcken är ungefär en meter lång och väger fast 10 kg fullt packad. Den går lätt in i de största förvaringslådor i Stockholm järnvägstation, men inte i de minsta. JIP (talk) 20:09, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Jag har aldrig använt terminalerna för annat än att checka in och gå ombord, så jag vet inte, men jag har aldrig sett sådana (i sin hemstad har man sällan sådana behov). Ett samtal till Viking Line (det var visst med dem du skulle resa) kunde löna sig, i synnerhet om man fortfarande kan ringa dem som faktiskt finns i Åbo. En annan möjlighet vore att fråga någonstans på vägen: om du t.ex. skall besöka Åbo slott kunde du fråga där (att lägga in en ryggsäck bakom disken torde inte vara alltför svårt för dem; de stänger i och för sig redan 18). Också hotellen har vanligen ett förvaringsrum just för det här ändamålet. --LPfi (talk) 09:43, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Hotellen har ju ett förvaringsrum, det har jag kollat på. Men det är obevakat. Förvaringslådor i stället borde vara låsbara (åtminstone de på Stockholm järnvägstation är) så det blir mindre risk för att ryggsäcken skulle bli stulen. JIP (talk) 11:42, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Jag kom ihåg att jag behövde berätta hur det gick. Det gick alldeles bra, Åbo hamn har lika sotra förvaringslådor som Stockholm järnvägstation, så det var inte någon problem att lämna min hela ryggsäck då för den tiden då jag var ute i Åbo. Jag bara behövde hämta min ryggsäck tillbaka då jag gick ombord Viking Grace. JIP (talk) 20:19, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Finemang! Tack för att du berättade. --LPfi (talk) 07:26, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Alcoholic beverages edit[edit]

Yes, you do make the point. I misread the edit in the first place. Sorry about that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:58, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

--LPfi (talk) 17:13, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

An award for you![edit]

Barncompass.png The Wikivoyage Barncompass
For valuable contributions, especially to several good Travel topics that have been, or will be featured on the Main Page, please have a Barncompass! ϒpsilon (talk) 15:51, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
Thank you. --LPfi (talk) 18:46, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Recreational shooting[edit]

You may find this hard to imagine or understand, but at least in the U.S., some people shoot animals just for fun, then don't eat them or sell or give away their meat. That's probably what's meant by "recreational shooting". Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:55, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek: Yes, I think we have such people over here also. Shooting just for the fun of shooting might be called recreational shooting, but handling it in Animal ethics by just warning about regulation and giving a link about how to do it is absurd. On the other hand, I call shooting mink or nutria hunting, even when they are shot for being pests (in the particular environment) and not for the fur. For the observer it is hard to distinguish such hunt from shooting for the fun of it, other than that the latter usually requires easy targets.
I also feel awkward about the Recreational shooting article, which seems to imply the shooting just for fun aspect. I think hunting should be handled in a separate article. Not all hunting is done with firearms and there are lots of aspects beyond that of shooting. For me, competitive shooting and hunting are very different beasts - and neither fits the "shooting just for fun". (Firearms law should of course be handled in one place, be it separately or together with competitive shooting.)
--LPfi (talk) 10:52, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
Funny, I was told that Recreational shooting redirected to Hunting. Now I see it doesn't. Well, anyway, I think I'll just respect however you decide to handle this one and stop interposing myself on this. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:45, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
I started to write a stub on hunting, but doing even the start well requires more work than I want to put in it for the moment. Still, perhaps I'd better start it sooner rather than later. --LPfi (talk) 17:57, 23 February 2017 (UTC)


Hi, LPfi. You're a great contributor, you've been here since 2013 and understand policy - in short, I believe you'd do a good job as admin if you were made one. Do you have any interest in having a few more editing tools, such as the ability to roll back spam and vandalism with one click? Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:24, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Intercity buses in the Nordic Countries[edit]

It seems to me that you and User:Yvwv have some knowledge of intercity buses in the Nordic countries. Do you think this would be a better approach to the topic than the current small section in the Nordic countries article and the rail and bus travel in Sweden article? It appears to me that the Nordic countries have a bus market predating the German and French legal changes of the 2010s and are still mostly dominated by local companies. Or am I mistaken on that? Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:11, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Yes, there has been a large market for coaches in the Nordic countries as long as I know anything about it. The railways cover only part of the countries, and also e.g. in the busy Helsinki–Tampere–Turku triangle coaches and trains have competed at least since the 70s. I have no detailed knowledge about other countries than Finland, but I suppose they are similar at least in this respect.
There have been drastic changes in the last ten or twenty years, but they are not that obvious for the passengers. Earlier the market was regulated, and the companies had the same routes as it seemed forever (but "regular" lines in the countryside got more sparse as people bought cars and moved to cities). Now regulations are much less strict, routes have to be offered to all interested parties, and companies such as Onnibus are allowed to invent routes of their own. This has of course resulted in many small companies being bought up, some companies growing, and bargain prices being found on the net for some routes. Still many coach users have seen no change, except for Onnibus, conductors having to find other jobs and immigrants now being common as drivers of city buses.
In Sweden it seems that the provinces are the ones responsible for coach lines, and still dominate the market except for the busiest regions and some niches. In Norway there seems to be a few big companies dominating the scene, but I cannot tell whether that is the whole story.
--LPfi (talk) 18:44, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
I am not sure there are enough similarities in the Nordic bus market to have a separate article for it. Rather I think we could have a paragraph in the Intercity buses in Europe and develop the sections in the country guides a bit (as many arrive by plane and car rental is expensive, I think buses are important for most travellers coming here). For the European article, I'd like to know what the market is like in e.g. Spain, the Balkan and Russia. Is the development there similar to France and Germany? --LPfi (talk) 18:51, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
I know next to nothing about the market in Spain or the Balkan, especially as it pertains to inside those regions as opposed to to/from those regions. In Germany and France intercity buses were regulated in a way that they basically only existed on a handful of routes. There used to be "rail replacement" buses on routes where the Bundesbahn had torn out the rail line, but they were often broken up a few years afterwards and by reunification no trace of them was left. There were buses to/from Berlin, mostly as a holdover from the incredibly bad rail connections during German partition, but other than that there were only slightly seedy international buses eastward mostly serving the Yugoslav diaspora. So the emergence of Flixbus really changed the picture completely. User:Yvwv argues on Talk:Nordic countries that there likely isn't a big enough overlap between the individual countries to make it its own article, but here might be a space for it in the Intercity buses in Europe article, that definitely needs love. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:07, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
The problem is that it is difficult to write without knowing how representative one's own impressions are. I try to add a few sentences, though. --LPfi (talk) 21:03, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
Maybe it would be better to have sections for countries/regions within the Intercity buses in Europe article so that people can add the biggest players in their country and roughly how the system works e.g. whether buses operate out of dedicated stations or curbside, whether prices vary by time of booking and so on and so forth. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:39, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
Perhaps. I am worried, though, that the article becomes a long list of countries, with information that really belongs in the By bus sections in country articles. I hesitate to add information on Finland that probably is true about many countries, or to say anything general about buses in Europe without knowing whether it is true for Spain, the Balkans and Russia.
The information here should be more like an overview, where the typical aspects of using a bus in different regions and different systems spanning more than one region are described. One point is that the international players introduce their systems more or less orthogonally in respect to the traditional systems of the countries. E.g. in Finland, Onnibus (a British company despite the name) is not part of the Matkahuolto cooperation, which otherwise handles tickets, timetables and freight uniformly across companies.
--LPfi (talk) 08:38, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
Well right now the dangers of the article lie not in it becoming too long any time soon. We can see what needs consolidating summing up and cutting down when we have some information assembled. I know a bit about the situation in Germany and less about that in France. I know nothing about e.g. Britain, but if we get some more info there, it may also be helpful to someone who wants to tour Europe but dislikes trains planes and cars. Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:31, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
OK. I wrote a section on the Nordic countries. I hope more countries and regions will be added quite soon, so that the consolidating can be done. As it stands, I am also unsure whether the information I added is the information we want or need. --LPfi (talk) 15:29, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
Thank you. Let's see how it develops. I wrote a bit on the situation in Germany. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:55, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Linking numbers - prefix?[edit]

Hi. I am not 100 % sure if a prefix is needed when roaming. But the 112 number (police) should always work even without a sim-card and without connection to your operator. 112 should work in any country, as far as I understand. --Erik den yngre (talk) 08:17, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

For services like roadside assistance like 08505 perhaps you need prefix to make sure you dont call that number in your home country? --Erik den yngre (talk) 08:19, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
Yes, probably. 112, 911 & al are special cases handled by the phone and/or the GSM (or whatever) network, while other numbers are handled by the normal phone switches. But I do not know how much routing information is included in the GSM network, it would be possible to handle also some other numbers as special cases. For numbers like 08505 there is quite high probability it is conflicting with a number in the home country, and probably no reason to think you won't need it when travelling.
This is an issue in any country, I raise it on Talk:Mobile telephones.
--LPfi (talk) 08:47, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Why is attribtuion not preserved with what I did at San Jose (disambiguation)?[edit]

Isn't it easy to see the history of the redirect and whatnot? I mean we can probably do some fancier stuff but for that sysop rights would be needed, which I don't have... Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:14, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Yes, we need a sysop. In the last comment on the talk page Traveler100 said:
"Page should be moved so that edit history is preserved. This may be a good idea but should have some agreement and be done correctly."
Traveller also thought this has not yet been discussed sufficiently.
When you arrive at the redirect, find the link to it on the target page, click the link and look at the history, then it is quite easy to infer what has happened, at least if you are seasoned with MediaWiki wikis. It is quite clear that this is not easy for a random reader.
If you arrive directly at the disambiguation page proper, which should be the page most people hit (otherwise the page shouldn't be at that name), the only indication that there is history elsewhere is that a large amount of text had been inserted at one time. How am I to draw the conclusion that the text was not original but copied from another page? And then I have to guess at what other page that is. Still quite easy for the seasoned (a check at the first guess should suffice), but you have to guess first.
--LPfi (talk) 14:36, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
would an edit summary saying "moved from (URL)" suffice? Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:03, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
Better than nothing (especially with a permalink), but why not let an admin move the page appropriately? --LPfi (talk) 12:35, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
Who'd do that? Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:54, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
Choose among these (Special:ListUsers/sysop, linked from Wikivoyage:Administrators). But, as Traveller100 (who is an admin) said, the issue concerns many articles, so better take it in the Travellers Pub first. --LPfi (talk) 06:35, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

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