User talk:Hobbitschuster

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141.30.210.129, I presume?

Nice that you decided to create an account. And once again, thanks for your contributions so far! :) ϒpsilon (talk) 15:51, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

You are right. The main thing that kept me from doing it was deciding on a name, actually...Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:53, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Contents

bus travel[edit]

Hobbitschuster wrote "Hi. Judging from your edits to Intercity buses in the US you know quite a bit about the subject. Do you happen to know anything about the topic in Europe?" Only in Spain and Great Britain.

Please add new topics to the bottom of this page. Also, please sign your contributions to talk pages. As to the topic at hand, I think an Intercity buses in Britain article might be helpful. Eventually we might even have a Intercity buses in Europe travel topic, but I think it makes more sense to build such a thing bottom up than top down... Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:57, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

Football rules[edit]

Hi. I think it's OK to very briefly explain the differences between the NFL (also also US high school and college games) and CFL (and also most Canadian university) games: The CFL requires the ball to be moved 10 yards (or is it metres in Canada?) in 3 downs (plays), rather than the 4 in the American game, and the field is wider; therefore, the Canadian game is more of a passing game. If a different number of players is used on each side, that can be mentioned, too. My feeling is, it's reasonable to explain the basic differences to someone unfamiliar with them, but I wouldn't explain the rules or basic structure (e.g., the shape of the football) of either type of football game to the Wikivoyage reader who doesn't know them, any more than I'd support explanations of headers in the article about Football in Europe. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:55, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

To my knowledge Canada uses yards. In Germany the terms yards and meters are used interchangeably (neither being correct, as the field is simply defined to be 120 "yards/meters" long and - as frequently soccer fields are used - often isn't.) I was also of the impression that we needn't discuss the rules; however in the article on Ice Hockey there is such a discussion. And yes Canadian Football uses more players (I don't know the exact number any more) also the field is longer and there is the possibility of a game ending 1:0 which is impossible in American Football as the only way to score a single point is after having scored a TD. I would really like someone who knoes about College Football to fill in the blank section. Do you know whom I could ask? Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:07, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
I know a bit about college football. I don't think there are too many differences in rules between US college and NFL football, now that the 2-point conversion was reinstated by the NFL a few years ago, but I could be wrong.
I posted to Talk:Ice hockey in North America questioning the detailed description of game play in "Understand" in that article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:50, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
Depending on the results of that discussion, it might be decided that it's appropriate to reinstate the details I deleted from the American Football article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:29, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
I know a bit about the rules of the game of College Football (Germany plays according to NCAA rules where applicable) but I don't know the byzantine mode the national champion is decided and what all those bowls are all about and I don't know any teams besides Notre Dame, which I oly know because of the West Wing...Hobbitschuster (talk) 01:46, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
That's way too complicated to understand. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:44, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
I've restored the section about football rules and play to American Football, based on the discussion at Talk:Ice hockey in North America. I'm serious about no-one understanding how the "national champion" of US college football is chosen, though. It really is just about impossible for anyone to understand, and definitely not worth trying to explain. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:50, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
Well we can't leave the section empty. And I don't know a thing about College Football; not how the Conferences are aligned or what they mean; neither who the good teams are, nor the - as discussed - impenetrable mode of selecting a champion. Imho the word "consensus" shouldn't figure in when you determine a champion. You either are or aren't. There should be no need for consensus. There is no need to find a consensus on whether apples exist, either. There is not consensus NFL champion either. But anyway; an empty section is worse than none. would you happen to know sb. to fill it in with sth.?Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:39, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
I don't know that much about these things and it's a huge mountain of information that I couldn't begin to summarize. We need to leave this task to someone who is really familiar with the college game. Might be a good candidate for a post to the Pub. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:57, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
I'll post a bit, though. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:57, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

British English in articles about Europe[edit]

Hi, User:Hobbitschuster, and thanks as always for your great work! But do be careful not to change British to American spellings in articles such as Switzerland, as you did in this edit. If you know that Switzerland deviates from the usual European practice of officially using British English, please mention that at Talk:Switzerland, and otherwise, please change the spellings of words like honour and neighbour back. Thanks.

All the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:52, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

I was unaware of the fact that any European country besides Britain, Ireland, Cyprus or Malta has any preference either way much less an official one. I do know, that school teachers in at least some parts of Germany are at least "allowed" to speak general American and usually both spellings are taught. And as far as I can recall teachers were (or still are) advised to accept both a British as well as an American pronunciation unless the accent was deemed too "sub-standard". The same is true for Spanish at least my teacher though preferring Spanish Spanish herself was always willing to accept Latin American spelling and pronunciation were she was aware of it or could be made aware of it. That being said I thought the default "no clear historic preference" applied to pretty much all of Europe (you could for example argue that those parts of Germany that were occupied by the US post world war II would "historically" prefer AmE) so assumed that as there is - to my knowledge - no official or de facto official rule either way in Switzerland, that American English is the way to go. I know that this issue is as sensitive to some as the term "Football" being used or not being used for a specific sport, so I am willing to accept the consensus although there doesn't seem to be good justification for it in the case of most non English native speaking countries in Europe. I prefer the American spelling for personal reasons as well as the fact that it is a fractional amount closer to the way stuff is pronounced (something English is horrible at to begin with). And it is the default spelling of my spell-check. So to sum up: Didn't know don't care all that much either way, will defer to those who care more although I don't see how British English is "standard" in Switzerland but not in Nicaragua even though Nicaragua was partly colonized by the British and later a de facto vassal of the US for most of the 20th century, whereas Switzerland hasn't had more than incidental contact to either English speaking country. (besides of course former British colonies whose dictators have their money there) Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:58, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
To my knowledge, British English is official for the EU. I don't know for sure what the situation is in Switzerland, which of course isn't an EU member, but I would say at least don't change existing British English to US English in articles about Europe. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:36, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
Yeah I just found a style guide from an EU institution suggesting British spellings, though I do think that we shouldn't let that be decided by one political entity alone. What if Britain leaves the EU and the rest of the EU decides to make American spelling or some form of hybrid (which it actually is just with more British than American elements) official? Would we than have to change all spellings in all articles on Europe? As for Switzerland there seems to be no official use as there seems to be little use for it (internal documents are translated in all four or the three most spoken official languages and private businesses may spell their English as they please). American English suffers imho (at least in spelling) from the problem that once you try a good reform and not everybody follows it (center instead of centre, favorite instead of favourite etc.) you become the weird one out. Just like the Soviet practice of using metric units in aviation or the replacement of horse powers with kilowatts in cars... I do agree that the issue is a minor one and will refrain from changing it in articles on European Union member states in the future as going against what seems to be a tenuous compromise to begin with on the spelling issue is not worth the hassle of some more or less aesthetically pleasing spellings, which is a subjective issue to begin with. Hobbitschuster (talk) 01:10, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
No, we definitely shouldn't change the spelling in European articles wholesale in the instance that the UK and Ireland leave the EU and the EU decides to adopt US English as its official English language. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:47, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
I understand the inherent status quo bias in this, but I have to ask: Based on what? If the only "official" thing we have for Europe is a style guide from the European commission and that thing changes, why should we not follow "official" use and/or revert to our "default" of American English. Besides - at least in Germany - loanwords are almost universally written in the American spelling (e.g. "Shoppingcenter" not "Shoppingcentre"). Still I don't care either way, but I think for European non- EU countries the case for any variety of English - much less the British one - being official is shaky at best. For the EU it is based on basically one style guide that I think most Europeans aren't even aware of. (and the official working language of the EU seems to be English with a bad German accent or French anyway these days ;-) ) Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:29, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
I personally don't really care, except that I'd like for varieties of English not to be changed without there being a really good reason and, as a very distant second, don't want articles about the same area of the world to be inconsistently in different varieties of English. But I think it would be fine for you to advance your argument at Wikivoyage talk:Spelling. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:08, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
Your recent edits on Germany are still consistently using American English spellings. It may be that you actually never learnt how spell in the British English way, so perhaps you would like to use a different spell check from your browser? Andrewssi2 (talk) 21:25, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
I was taught to in school, but teachers never really cared either way as long as it was somewhat consistent. As I also write on topics where US English is preferred, I rather not change the spell-check. I really don't think it is all that important anyway. Yes there are some chosen few articles that lose from being inconsistent but there is a whole bunch of articles that have a two line get in section for a whole continent or a town with a major port airport and public transport connection. I do not do it on purpose, but I must ask: is it all that important? If need be you can change it back. I won't edit war over this. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:38, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
It may interest you to know that I would prefer just all the articles are in American English and that would be an end to it.
However the consensus is to contribute to WV on the basis that Ikan has stated above. If you think this consensus is pointless and keep spelling in that way then you will inevitably go against the collaborative spirit of the site. I guess we are politely asking that you don't do that. Andrewssi2 (talk) 21:45, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Yeah sorry. I am a little over-tired and should probably go to sleep right now. What I wanted to say is: It was with no ill intent and my sometimes less than perfect English spelling is aided by a spellcheck. I use an American one and I am sorry, that it sometimes gives me American spellings where British ones are expected. I know that this whole spelling issue seems to be a very tenuous compromise of sorts because passions on both sides seem to be high. I would honestly not have a problem to write in all British, but than I would get people angry when I make a quick contribution on - say - Nicaragua and it is spelled in British English (as the policy says we should write American English there). This whole thing reminds me a little bit of that one time the pope divided the whole world between Portugal and Spain, and now someone in WV calls the shot whether countries that don't really speak all that much English prefer American or British. Anyway. I am probably not making much sense now so let me say this: I am sorry, I try to eliminate such behavio(u)r in the future if and where possible. I hope it doesn't distract too much from the more or less useful contributions I may have made from time to time ;-) Best wishes and good night Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:56, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

USA edit[edit]

First, thanks for your many edits and additions lately - overall I think they've been excellent. I'm not sure about this edit though - does a traveler really care about that level of political detail? In my travels I honestly don't care about the political parties in a country unless they affect me directly as a traveler, and such edits in the past have led to extensive arguments and edit warring by those with strong opinions on the subject. WV:Be fair#Political disputes is the closest official policy we have on this subject, and it is not directly applicable to your edit, but my preference would be to leave details on political ideologies out of our guides unless they are directly relevant to travelers. -- Ryan • (talk) • 20:17, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

I agree with you in principle but the word liberal is used extensively in the US (including in the article you reference just one or two paragraphs to the bottom) and thus I thought it needed an explanation, because "liberal" in the US means something very different from e.g. the "liberal" FDP in Germany. Maybe it is better to cut it down to one sentence along the lines of "in the US liberals are usually understood to be at the left end of the political spectrum, much like Socialists and Social Democrats are in Europe". Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:47, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
I think it's fine to have something brief, but I'd call liberals in the US left-of-center, not "on the left end," which is a phrase that suggests a more extreme leftist position to me. Of course, others would consider them far left. So it's best to just say that they're considered to be relatively left-wing in an American context, with the conservatives comparatively right-wing, and leave it at that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:53, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
I can live with that. Though mentioning certain political areas that usually serve as "litmus tests" might be a good idea as "left" and "right" all by themselves aren't all that meaningful. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:56, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
I edited the article, apparently while the above discussion was ongoing, to remove the new addition and replace the instance of "liberal" (that was called out as problematic) with the word "progressive". We've had discussions of red-vs-blue and such before (see Talk:United States of America/Archive 2006#Revert of the day for the first of many), and the consensus is almost always that these tidbits are irrelevant for travelers but great for generating edit wars, so unless there is a good reason to include this stuff I'd strongly suggest we just leave it out. -- Ryan • (talk) • 21:01, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Not to start a whole new discussion, but I have found that 80% or more of edits to the USA page tend to come full circle in two to three days tops. Either this article is next to perfect and can't be approved upon, or it has a very strong status quo bias. Best wishes Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:09, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Ryan, if the point is to give visitors from the rest of the world, where "liberal" refers to classical liberalism (after Adam Smith), useful, explanatory background, I believe that replacing "liberal" with "progressive" instead of including both is unhelpful. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:12, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
I didn't mean to upset Hobbitschuster and apologize if I've done so. Please revert my latest change if desired. I'll bow out, but with the final note that when we're talking about classical liberalism we've strayed pretty far from travel writing. -- Ryan • (talk) • 21:18, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Regardless of the differences between liberalism and libertarianism , I'd agree with Ryan that it isn't actually in the scope of a travel guide. High level discussion of the political landscape in the United States is certainly valid, but we do serve the traveller best by keeping it concise and easy to understand. Andrewssi2 (talk) 21:48, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Libertarianism doesn't need to be mentioned at all, but saying in a single sentence that the Democrats are the liberal/progressive party that is considered to be relatively left-wing in the US context and that the Republicans are the conservative party that's comparatively right-wing is surely fine. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:57, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

On Railway Stocks[edit]

https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Wikivoyage:Joke_articles/Time_travel&oldid=2741556

See also w:George Hudson, whose collapse is all too contemporary to a post Madoff world. :( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 00:02, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Discover[edit]

Hi! Thanks for adding the Managua fun fact to the Discover section. However, facts should be added to Wikivoyage:Discover (not to the archive) and this is where I moved it. I've also improved the instructions on the page, because I noticed they were very misleading (you aren't the first one to add facts to the archive :)). ϒpsilon (talk) 14:46, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. There are probably some other trivia about places I might want to add info about. For example that the East Frisian islands are car-free, or that there is a paragraph of German federal law (StVO) that explicitly forbids cars and limits bikes on the island of Heligoland. But the articles are not yet up to par, sadly... Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:17, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

outline to usable of Germany[edit]

I do agree that this article should be at least usable or maybe even guide but technically it is still outline as some of the Other Destinations listed on the page are still Germany#Other destinations are still at outline. Most could be usable but some need more work to their city articles. --Traveler100 (talk) 13:52, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Please don't feed the trolls[edit]

re: User talk:2602:304:AF53:3E99:A935:54D:5B3F:9FC‎ please see w:Wikipedia:Deny recognition. -- Ryan • (talk) • 22:25, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

sorry Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:29, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

European History[edit]

Would this template be better? {{EuropeHistory}}. Would then only need to update in one place. --Traveler100 (talk) 07:53, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

I like the idea. But what do we do if the history of Europe gets too unwieldy and we have to split it up? Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:31, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
Scrap the idea of a header list and just go back to links on the topic parent page; split into multiple template; make it a collapsed- expandable text block. --Traveler100 (talk) 12:29, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

help with chester maine[edit]

when u get a chance could u help? thanks. --Thahouseusers2015 (talk) 22:47, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

I know nothing about the place. I only put in the standard section headings, as we structure all our destination guides (roughly) the same way. I may have time to look over some formatting and stylistic issues of what you write tomorrow, though. Best wishes Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:49, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Redford[edit]

Hi, Hobbit. If you're going to essentially remove an article (in this case by redirecting it) that has routeboxes, you have to also remove the article from the routebox sequence. Note that Saranac Lake, for instance, still links to Redford in its routebox. But Redford no longer has a routebox, because it's a redirect, so the routebox chain has been broken. Powers (talk) 16:23, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Oh. Okay. I didn't know about that. What do I have to do now? Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:03, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
For each city adjacent to Redford in its routeboxes (in this case, Saranac Lake and Plattsburgh), you need to replace Redford with the next destination. In the case of Plattsburgh, you can just replace Redford with Saranac Lake and be fine. But for Saranac Lake, it's trickier. The next destination is Plattsburgh, which is a major destination. When that happens, we show the next two major destinations (instead of a minor and a major as normal). You can look at the last Redford edit before your redirect to see how it was done. Powers (talk) 01:33, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Small places[edit]

Can I just keep doing like I am and let someone else decide whether or not to merge any excessively tiny place into articles on broader areas? I have no knowledge of or interest in these areas beyond their fossil content, so I don't know which should be merged and which shouldn't. It would be a lot easier for me if I could just leave it up to a more experienced editor to do so whenever one decides to significantly expand the content about the region. Abyssal (talk) 22:37, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

You can. But if, say, 30 (a number I'm just pulling out of my hat) new articles have to be redirected, that's a fair amount of work. So I wouldn't presume to try to tell you what to do, but you could possibly see what other things to see and do a local tourism office (if there is any) mentions, and also look at the travel-related content in the equivalent Wikipedia article (if any). Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:48, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
An alternative would also be to add fossil information to existing articles, and in cases where the article doesn't yet exist, add the fossil-collecting information to the relevant region article. That way if and when a town article is created the info can be moved in from the region article, and the approach saves others the work of having to sort through 30 skeleton town articles to figure out what to do with them. -- Ryan • (talk) • 22:53, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
I agree with Ikan and Ryan Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:57, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Edits[edit]

You are welcome!... I have a tendency to float around recently edited articles and see if I can help out even a little bit. - Matroc (talk) 00:58, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

I can say one thing i was addressing the traveller which mostly unaware of real vrindavan historical temples. And in vrindavan more than 5000 temples but somehow traveller visit only new architecture of temples but not that temples which were historical so i was addressing that part with near to my budgetery stay Guest house if traveller visit vrindavan I guarantee i gave them stay safe free visit in just £ so you can say as a promotion in your point but we are in center of historical temples of vrindavan and Yamuna river are just 200 meter far you daily feel that marvolos view .My edit just for the traveller which don't carry so much money want to visit reality of vrindavan and want to feel peace as well so they can stay long and safe free with £ rs enjoy the marvolos moments

Girriraj Bhawan Bengali Ashram (talk) 06:51, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Sorry Hobbitschuster[edit]

Why did you delete mine edits? only because you think yours are better. I can prove you it isn't. Why you delete Dordrecht , only because you truly think Nijmegen is the oldest. I am an Dutchmen on my own , so I know what I am doing here! You not ever been there I saw on your wiki. So why you still don't allow me to add content? What wrong with you?

First of all, please sign your contributions on talk pages by posting this "~" symbol (the tilde) four times in a row. Second of all, there is a rule that we only allow a maximum of nine cities in non bottom level regions ( see here). If you think your city deserves mentioning in the country page, another one has to be removed from the list and that requires consensus at the talk page of the respective country first. You can argue your point there. Unilateral changes without searching consensus will be reverted. I do think most other longer time users would have done the same. I hope that clears that up. Please raise your issue at talk:Netherlands. All the best 21:11, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

it:voy[edit]

Please take a look at your talk page. Thanks, --Andyrom75 (talk) 17:10, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Please check again. --Andyrom75 (talk) 18:52, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
it:Rostock has been saved :-) and it:Wismar is almost done: check again the missing QuickbarCity parameters. --Andyrom75 (talk) 20:19, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
I think it:Wismar is done as well... Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:33, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
I've added the official website for Wismar. Now I just need to know an info for the popoluation then it's done (see your talk). --Andyrom75 (talk) 20:54, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
Here I've left you some suggestions to copmlete the Quickbar. While here some suggestion for the Quickfooter. --Andyrom75 (talk) 22:20, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:39, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

To facilitate your job, I've left you a table on your talk page where you can see the status of the various articles that you have created and what is missing to do to avoid their deletion. --Andyrom75 (talk) 07:12, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
I've update content status. --Andyrom75 (talk) 12:46, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
Update it again. We should be very close :-) --Andyrom75 (talk) 14:34, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
When I was talking of the image, I wasn't referring to the banner (although when missing it should be added as well) --Andyrom75 (talk) 14:53, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
Please try to complete the last missing information on the Quickbar. --Andyrom75 (talk) 11:26, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
In this category you can find the articles with missing image, please check yours in order to fix them. PS With the image should be insert a caption in its relevant parameter. Thanks, --Andyrom75 (talk) 09:56, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
No problem for ignoring the request to complete the stubs that you have created on it:voy, but please for the future try to not start what you are not willing to finish. The spirit of it:voy is not to have a big amount of "empty contaiers". Thanks for your understanding. --Andyrom75 (talk) 15:28, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Sorry for not replying earlier, I am quite confused as to what and how you expect me to do. Best wishes Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:23, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

My personal approach when I do not understand something is to ask questions. However, as said above don't worry, I've posted a message in the lounge to look for any volunteer that would be willing to remedy. Let me only add that if you will stop again on it:voy, you'll be more than welcome, but do NOT create more than one article at time, and start to create the following one only after the first one is completed according to the it:voy principles. Thanks for your understanding. --Andyrom75 (talk) 07:52, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
ok. Well my problem is still that I don't understand by which criteria the image is chosen and what to put under its description. Hobbitschuster (talk) 10:45, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
Any nice image representative of the place, with a description of it. It's like: "what to write inside an article?" ....it's up to you. --Andyrom75 (talk) 07:19, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
I'll look into it those days, but I am not sure I will have much time today Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:29, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
No problem. I've published an help request in the lounge so few volunteers have helped. Maybe if want to improve your drafts you can add other places where to eat/sleep/drink instead of one. But feel free. --Andyrom75 (talk) 14:45, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

New Joisey[edit]

My friend, thanks for all your great work, but are you joking with your redirects of Joisey and New Joisey? What's next, redirecting "Nawlins" to New Orleans and "Lawn Guyland" to Long Island? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:30, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

You are right. It probably does not qualify as a "common misspelling" (from which a redirect is ok). On the other hand, I could not think of any actual place of that name... and it prevents jocular folks from creating something along the lines of our article on Dixie... But yeah, I won't raise objections if you delete this. Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:58, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
Dixie is an actual alternate name for the South. "Joisey" is just a local pronunciation, not an alternate name, and people write it out that way only as a joke. If you're sure you're OK with deleting these redirects, I could do it on the basis of "author request". Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:03, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
Well, what good is there in keeping them? They do no harm, but apparently they don't do any good, either... Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:05, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
Agreed. I can't see anyone searching for New Jersey under such spellings. I'll delete the redirects. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:06, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Newbies[edit]

Heya, I saw your attempts to fix the IP's efforts to create Herzberg am Harz. I'd like to encourage you to wait a while before jumping in on new articles (both from new and established users), even if there are obvious mistakes/omissions. For many people, it's rather frustrating when they're just starting to work on something and someone else starts creating edit conflicts within a few minutes. Especially for newbies, that can get rather confusing too. When they're just editing, it's the best time to welcome new users and point them in the right direction via their talk page. Most of them don't know the concept of edit summaries yet, but many will notice the talk page message. Just wanted to make you aware ;-) JuliasTravels (talk) 12:40, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Well some of this user's other edits have been borderline problematic, but I get your point. Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:39, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
I undid your edit on Monschau (where you added the "could benefit from translation" tag) for the exact same reason as what I mentioned above. It's really a matter of courtesy to refrain from jumping in and tagging articles when someone is clearly working on a new article. I'll let you edit the article as you please for now, and get back to it later. No tags needed for now, though. If you want to actually write subsections for getting in by bus and train, that's fine. If you're only going to create empty subsections however, that's not really an improvement. Cheers, JuliasTravels (talk) 12:57, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Maybe...[edit]

Instead of going around asking people whether or not I'am a vandal it would be well to know iam not a vandal as i left a message on ryan's talk page asking him to unblock my other account thahouseusers2015. Just saying. Maybe i should work on USA only? I dont mean to sound prejudice. --Gol929 (talk) 13:24, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Plus i have skitzophrenia. --Gol929 (talk) 13:26, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
I'm sorry if my asking more experienced contributors for help offends you, but I wanted to see what their insight could offer to the discussion at hand. If you are indeed the other user that has already been blocked, you are most likely going to be blocked in a short time hence, as circumventing a block does not fly here... Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:27, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
You people dont care about me. --Gol929 (talk) 13:28, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
what kind of response are you expecting? Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:30, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
To keep me on the site and not block me indef. --Gol929 (talk) 13:31, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

look at my user page please. maybe you can be informed. --Gol929 (talk) 13:31, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

While I have not followed the reasons for your original block, I trust that they were justified and you reappearing under a different user name does not indeed help your case. Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:33, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Whatever --Gol929 (talk) 13:33, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

I'am a human being just like ryan or anyone else. --Gol929 (talk) 13:36, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Bush planes[edit]

Would bush planes deserve an article on their own? Added to WV:RA in any case. /Yvwv (talk) 22:19, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Maybe. But I don't know much about them. Although I may have once flown with an airline that might be considered as meeting (some of) the criteria. Which would imho be:
  1. small airplanes, often Cessna or similar small propeller craft
  2. flying primarily or also into / out of runways that aren't much more than paved dirt
  3. rather short distances for some flights / rather long distance (at least for the size of the craft) on others
  4. flights where ground transport is unavailable /onerous (e.g. a 50 min. flight or a 24 hour bus ride)
  5. Government subsidized to provide "access" or "essential airservice", sometimes for political reasons (e.g. claim on distant territories, enticing settlement of remote areas etc.)
Numbers one two and four apply for la costeña, but I am not sure about three and five. I will certainly have a look if and when the article is created. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:04, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

An award for you![edit]

Barncompass.png The Wikivoyage Barncompass
As one of the most active editors here as of lately, please have a barncompass! :) ϒpsilon (talk) 18:13, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
Well thank you, is all I can say to that. I hope to deserve it in times to come as much as now ;-) Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:06, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

California high speed rail[edit]

I removed the comment about high-speed rail from the Yosemite article since that project is still more than a decade from being operational, and there is a good chance that funding will be pulled and it may never become operational. It would great to have a high-speed train in California, but the currently proposed project is still a long way from becoming reality. -- Ryan • (talk) • 14:55, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

If Wikipedia is to be believed trains will run over a significant portion of the route as early as 2022 (seven years from now) and the San Joaquin is scheduled to use newly constructed tracks (at faster speeds than currently possible) as early as 2019 (four years from now), once construction reaches Bakersfield. While funding may still be pulled away from the project, I think that for several reasons this won't happen
  1. HSR and pro HSR candidates have consistently won at the polls, most notably Governor Brown
  2. Unlike the failed Texas project of the 1980s and 1990s no major airline is openly opposed to the project
  3. No court challenge came even close to stopping the project
  4. Once a certain amount of track is laid and especially once trains starts running, the project gains a sort of momentum that is hard for even the most hardline politicians to stop
  5. Even assuming (which I quite frankly deem to be laughable) no additional funding through 2022, current funding provides for more than the cost through 2022, at which point momentum will make killing the project politically undesirable
In short, I am quite confident that the project will happen and that it will eventually link San Francisco and Los Angeles at 2h40 travel time or faster even though some uncertainties remain. What can be considered as certain as almost anything that concerns the future is that the Central Valley parts will get built. Fresno, Bakersfield, Merced and others will get significant rail improvements, including better travel times and new stations (which is in essence what I was getting at in the Yosemite article). But I guess the project is inherently controversial because it goes against a lot of "common wisdom" in the US, so the American media like to overstate the risks and underestimate the benefits. Similar things seem to be happening with HS2 in the United Kingdom - though that project is probably wildly overpriced (still worth it, but if you compare the per km cost to other HSR systems, something seems to be wrong with it). The point being: The project will come and I will gladly edit the articles accordingly in the 2020s if you deem it too early to do so now... Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:37, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
I hope you're right - as a California resident and an engineer I've avidly followed every development on this project since before the ballot measure in 2008 up through (finally) the start of construction earlier this year in Fresno. That said, I think it's best to hold off on updating articles to reference California high speed rail until the project has made enough progress that there is more certainty about timing, service, etc. -- Ryan • (talk) • 15:56, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
You may want to see the oblique reference in the California article than... as well as the sentence in the US without a car one. And on the issue: Yes I also very much hope the project gets built the way it was promised and is currently scheduled to be built. As a matter of fact, I fully intend to ride the train as close to opening day as possible. San Francisco is very high on my bucket list indeed, and I quite enjoyed myself in SoCal when I was there and do fully intend to go there again if the opportunity arises Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:01, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Admin?[edit]

Hi, Hobbitschuster. You are a very active editor who's been involved in all kinds of work and discussions about how to improve this guide. If you'd like to have access to a few additional tools that will enable you to more easily roll back vandalism and block spammers, let me know. I haven't discussed this with anyone, but I doubt you'd get opposition to an admin nomination, if you'd be willing to accept that role.

All the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:40, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

I will have to think about it. Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:32, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
Sure. It's fine either way, and there's no rush. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:34, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
Hi Hobbitschuster, so what do you think? --Danapit (talk) 11:07, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
To be honest, I fear I lack the patience, especially vis-a-vis newbies to do the job. Given that things I have written or done seem to in more than one case have caused a newbie to cease contributing, me being a mod might not be to the best of the wiki, after all. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:23, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
Completely up to you, but as an Admin I mostly just clean up clear vandalism when I see it. Most of the discussed issues about biting newbies (as far as I can tell) do not actually require Admin tools. I've noted that you have taken proactive steps to gain clarifications regarding 'grey' areas of policy, which is the right thing for an admin to do --Andrewssi2 (talk) 21:48, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
I see you doing great job actively participating in policy discussion in a constructive way, so I believe you have a very good knowledge of the site's policies in the meanwhile, which is another prerequisite of an admin. I'm not pushing you into a rush decision, just noticed your good work and wanted to mention it. Danapit (talk) 08:32, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Varieties of English[edit]

Guten Abend, Hobbitschuster. Thanks for reverting one of my edits. I plan to be brutal so it's good that other editors are making sure I don't go too far. I can see how the information is useful to voyagers, with one exception. The origin of the British word nappy. Since they were called napkins in the past, it's not useful information to today's travellers. Anyway, I'd like to delete that bit again, as long as you don't oppose. If not, well there are other more important things :-) Dankeschön --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:06, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Sure. But let's have the in depth discussion tomorrow or at some other time Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:36, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
Of course :-) If you make it known on the talk page that you want to discuss it further, I'll gladly join in. And I'll hold off on further edits to the page until then. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:59, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

sorry[edit]

Hi, this is Ibaman from a smartphone. I tried to improve the part on Apicius and think I might have removed quite a good chunk of your very good prose. On a desktop I would now salvage and put it back. Ill do it tomorrow. Lets hammer it to Star. Best wishes

No problem. I know how finicky a smartphone can be... Hobbitschuster (talk) 01:02, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

LA to Panama by bus[edit]

OK, I know it's bad to tout stuff here. Nevertheless I stumbled upon a travel video series on Youtube that I thought you may find very interesting and entertaining. A guy travels from overland from Los Angeles to Panama using public transportation. (His other travel adventures are also interesting) ϒpsilon (talk) 19:54, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Will look at it once I get time to. There also was a documentary on the Panamericana some time ago on German TV.... Where they skipped exactly one country: Nicaragua :( Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:18, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

crown princes[edit]

hey if you have time check out mangkunegara and pakualaman on wp en - they were mirror image crown prince dynasties in central java, nothing unusual about them ,it was the dutch trying to pay off on the divide and rule stuff... not just age, but heredity and generations of them JarrahTree (talk) 00:20, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Chains[edit]

I noticed the editing on [Böblingen] about the Subway branch.

I'm not sure if it is enshrined in policy as such, but yes we do tend not to list chains. For major cities that is fairly obvious. For smaller towns like this I guess exceptions can be made. My own memories of Böblingen is that it wasn't a tourist destination and there were not a huge amount of options. Hope the POV helps! --Andrewssi2 (talk) 11:12, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

It is my understanding not to mention boring places. Chain restaurants, especially the fast food variety seem to definitely fall into that category, save for exceptions like the architecturally interesting golden m in Erlangen. Though small places that would be devoid of listings otherwise might be an exception. I don't know. I am at a loss when it comes to most aspects of our coverage of rural areas. As a further aside "Böblingen bei Stuttgart" is mentioned as a boring place that is contrasted with Berlin in the Kraftklub song "Ich will nicht nach Berlin" Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:18, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
A lot of thanks for highlighting the rural areas coverage on the pub. It has good momentum so I'll help when I have something to give. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 05:06, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
You're welcome. Hobbitschuster (talk) 10:21, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Bad Orb[edit]

Hi you have been to Germany maybe you know a few things about Bad Orb? --2604:6000:9EC3:7A00:5871:10EB:F180:4DD3 21:44, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

This is the first time I hear of the place, tbh. Sorry about that. If you want to go there, do ask in the Tourist Office Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:03, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
No i dont want to go there i added the loc. --2604:6000:9EC3:7A00:D94A:96A0:A5A0:E99 22:05, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Your nominations at VfD[edit]

Hobbitschuster, we all greatly appreciate your efforts in improving our travel guides. That said, please stop nominating real places for deletion. It's against policy and wastes everyone's time. If you want to ask whether a place should be redirected, start a discussion on the article's talk page. Link to it from the Pub or from Wikivoyage:Requests for comment, but don't use the VfD page. Thanks. Powers (talk) 21:05, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

If the only thing that can happen to real places i redirection and the vast majority of our pages covers real places, why do we even have vfd? Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:21, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
Travel topics, itineraries, and other non-places and non-articles. Powers (talk) 21:24, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Wolfsburg[edit]

Out of interest how well do you know Wolfsburg. Looking for a good hotel recommendation. In past have stayed at the Holiday Inn which has now change ownership (was not impressed), also stayed at the Seehotel am Tankumsee, which is nice but not practical in the winter if risk of snow and have stayed at a couple of others but cannot remember which but were nothing special. --Traveler100 (talk) 11:56, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

I've been there twice (once a day trip and once visiting family) but I could not give you a hotel recommendation, as I have not stayed in a hotel on either of my visits. Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:12, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Bad Wildungen[edit]

What do you mean with Bad Wildungen is used by one German comedian as the prime example of a rural bland German town. Is it really urgent we cover places like that? in the revision history of Kassel? Please answer at my German Wikivoyage user talk page. MfG -- Feuermond16 (talk) 18:02, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

What I wanted to say with that is that of all those redlinks, "Bad Wildungen" was the only one that rang a bell, mostly only because Dieter Nuhr used to use it as a token punching bag. And I just questioned the value to have this article end with a huge list of redlinks. But I have of course been proven wrong on that before, so what do I know? Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:18, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Kassel[edit]

Kurz auf deutsch: Werde demnächst anfangen pro Sehenswürdigkeit einen kleinen Text zu verfassen und habe noch zwei kurze Fragen: 1. Dürfte ich auf diesen englischen Zeitungsartikel von theguardian.com (Ranking) verweisen, oder würde der sofort mit Hinweis auf nicht erwünschte Links oder ähnliches entfernt werden? Und 2. Könntest du mir sagen, wie man am besten Deutschlands einzige Galerie für Komische Kunst übersetzen könnte? MfG -- Feuermond16 (talk) 18:32, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Komische Kunst könnte man womöglich mit "humorous art" übersetzen, aber eine kurze google-Suche lässt mich anzweifeln, dass die Aussage haltbar oder sinnvoll ist. Zumindest Museen, scheint es auch anderswo zu geben. Gallerie in dem Sinne scheint sich wohl mit "art gallery" halbwegs treffend wiedergeben zu lassen, aber wie gesagt es erscheint mir nicht ganz klar ob der Unterschied zwischen einem Museum für komische Kunst und einer Galerie für komische Kunst den durchschnittlichen Besucher derselben so brennend interessiert. Üblicherweise hat ja jedes Museum heutzutage einen Museumsshop wo man zumindest Nachahmungen erstehen kann... Wenn man in der erwähnten Galerie Originale kaufen kann sollte das natürlich gesondert erwähnt werden. Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:45, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Archiving[edit]

Archived discussions

Hi, just wanted to say thanks for archiving some bloated talk pages. I've also done some of this in the past and thought I'd make some suggestions:

  1. The Infobox above makes it a bit clearer that archives are available
  2. Try and avoid archiving region and city district discussions (to be clear, I have not seen you do this yourself).
  3. Avoid archiving any section that may possess permanent relevance
  4. Discussions that occurred on the legacy WT site (2013 and before) are prime for archival. Anything after migration somewhat less so.

These are just pointers, and not policy in any shape or form. Good luck!

--Andrewssi2 (talk) 06:37, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up! Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:56, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Thank You[edit]

Symbol thumbs up.svg Thank You
Thank you for the encouragement. I don't want to use the template, however. I want to make it my own way so I don't have any empty spaces on my page. Sonicparty64 (talk) 18:46, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
You're welcome. Apparently I should have used the WV:small city article template. However, in general our articles should contain the standard top level headings. We have recently deviated from this for regions (which may omit empty sections) and don't follow them as closely for travel topics, but for cities we still have the "==" level in full for all our articles. Some subheadings of the "===" level are of course optional. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:55, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

2 items[edit]

I cross-referenced Urban rail adventures from Underground works for obvious reasons.

Also I was wondering if you could help massively expand the outline I started at Paranormal tourism which is rather short at present. I've mentioned a few more obvious items, but would really appreciate it if someone went into more depth. I've not yet included Dark Peak and so on, because of phrasing concerns. I'm alsop minded to leave out locations that whilst connected with nominal pranormal events, took place on "private propety" and thus aren't actually accessible to a casual tourist. 11:27, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

For the first point: Thanks. Good catch. To the latter... I don't know whether I can help you there... Generally speaking I see the purported "paranormal" as mumbo-jumbo designed to cheat gullible people out of their money or in some cases massive self-delusion on the part of the promoters of such (and it's really hard to tell which is more dangerous, the con-people or the true believers...) and as such my interest in this topic is extremely limited and I even somewhat doubt its place on WV. Sure, some people will undoubtedly travel for that reason, but as with our sex tourism policy there are areas which we deliberately do not cover... In any case we should avoid even the semblance of promoting pseudo-science as this is a reputation that travels far and wide on the internet in no time and can do incredible harm in even shorter time. But I'll see what I can do. Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:13, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
You can re-word the lede - I have an obvious skeptical bias, but things like the Pendle Witch trail exist. The aim was not to cover the "bloke from the pub, whose had too many of the local scrumpy" told me fringe stuff (which is why I've not used the W word directly.) Sfan00 IMG (talk) 17:28, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
Your view sounds like you are the perfect person to right a Stay Safe/Stay Alert section, that exposes paranormal scams encountered by the traveller( Faith Healers being one. ), As I've said under Occult Esoterica, much magic relies on the sucessptibility of the willing. Just because the Heading is Paranormal Toursim doesn't mean the contributors to it have to think the phenomena are genuine. Perhaps there should be a wider disscussion at the travellers pub> Sfan00 IMG (talk) 17:32, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Deserts[edit]

We have an article on safety in cold regions, not one for arid regions though? Sfan00 IMG (talk) 22:18, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Re Ancient Alien narratives[edit]

Thank you, They certainly aren't theories in the 'scientific' sense! XD Sfan00 IMG (talk) 22:18, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Botanical tourism[edit]

Whilst, my previous effort might be controversial (and if you think it's gettng problematic I won't object to it it going).

However, I thought something like Botanical tourism might be useful. It's only a very sketchy outline, but could be improved considerably, and going to look at Kew Gardens (for example) is firmly within scope :). ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:32, 5 June 2016 (UTC) (Sfan00_IMG is my alternate account, which I am in the process of "closing" on some wikis due to policy changes.)ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:33, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Mazes[edit]

Created in userspace as I have no idea what to put in it yet.

Comes under the heading of "Activites" as a travel topic mostly, but there are some notable mazes that have historical importance like the floor design in Chartes Cathedral, and the one at Hampton Court. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:33, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Paranormal tourism[edit]

Given the rapid progess on two other travel topics I suggested, and the seeming lack of progess here, I can't see a reasonable way to improve it in the neutral traveller friendly way other topics are. You had already expressed serious concerns about this topic on the talk page. At present I don't even think a compromise of a re-title to Fringe Phonemena would work.

As things are done considerably more informally here, I am therefore strongly suggesting that even though it was well-intentioned, that the portions of the article that can be merged elsewhere are, and that we have an understanding that fringe esoterica are not something Wikivoyage should generally promote.

Given that I have no objections to the Topic's removal, potentially without further discussion. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:13, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Arminius[edit]

Hey Hobbit, it must be mentioned, Martin Luther himself used to talk and digress about Arminius/Hermann. I think it was probably he who came up with this "translation". Too busy to research in this very moment, but I'm pretty sure about this bit. Ibaman (talk) 13:57, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

You are right. He said something about having him "von Herzen lip" (or whatever the spelling back then was). But the real Hermann-craziness was 19th century. Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:16, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Please check[edit]

I added two phrases to the German handbook. Please check them and fix spelling and grammar as needed. Ich spreche fast kein einziges Wort Deutsch, and I can spell even fewer of them.  ;-) WhatamIdoing (talk) 10:36, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

I think it's fine, though another native speaker might have a different idea. I am not sure whether to put "stark" allergisch "sehr" allergisch or some combination, though. Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:13, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Brownsville (Texas)[edit]

Hello, just wanted to ask a question. How did you find out about this article? Rarely does one update it? Are you from the area? De88 (talk) 02:15, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Now, but I have Ikan's talk page on my watchlist. And I have an extension turned on (you can find it under "preferences") that shows when a country code is missing and given that this error message is rather prominent, I decided to do something about it. I have never been to the area, I am sorry to say. DFW airport is the closest I have ever been to "being in Texas". Hobbitschuster (talk) 02:16, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
That's fine. Just thought you were a local, like myself. Thanks for updating the area code numbers. Didn't realize country codes were vital in these articles. Hope you do take a trip done here. It's really nice, except for the humidity. The area has some breathtaking views. De88 (talk) 02:23, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
There's so many places and so little time... I might, but right now Nicaragua is further up my list ;-). And yeah it's not vital, but since I switched on that extension it's kinda become a pet peeve of mine. By the way, when I first started editing here I was also quite surprised to see articles on Nicaragua edited shortly after I had edited them; as it turned out this is/was almost entirely due to recent change patrol; I think I am the only "regular" around here who has been to Nicaragua. Hobbitschuster (talk) 02:28, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
I have similar pet peeves when it comes to organization. It surprised me when Ikan found out about the page and then you as well. Then I fount out about the recent change patrol and it made sense. You're a big fan of Nicaragua as I can tell. I also feel like the only "regular" when editing articles about Brownsville. It would be nice if more locals started editing on here. You can only do so much to give foreigners and domestic tourists a glimpse into what they can expect to see about your hometown. De88 (talk) 02:41, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
I agree with you. A small thing, I've seen there are two or three dead links in the article. It's much easier for a local to find out whether the reason is due to the website moving / not working any more or due to the business behind the website shutting down. Could you check that? And another thing, if you edit a listing and consider it up to date, there is a box in the listing editor you can check which will give the date when it was last marked up to date to our readers. Hobbitschuster (talk) 02:45, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for telling me. If you don't mind, do you know which links are dead? I tried my best in removing old links as the article was messy and old before I started editing it. De88 (talk) 02:56, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
The link for the listing number 2 under the "theater" headline. There should be {{ dead link}} or something in the wikicode behind it. If you can fix the link remove that afterwards. Thanks. Hobbitschuster (talk) 02:58, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
I know why the link is dead. The theatre belonged to University of Texas at Brownsville but after the merger of UTB and its nearby college, University of Texas Pan-American, anything related with UTB was removed. The new place, University of Texas Rio Grande Valley took over everything. Thanks! De88 (talk) 03:05, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

phone numbers in Germany[edit]

Hi Hobbitschuster, I've seen that you have removed the trailing zero in area codes in my listing (zero in brackets in +49 (0)...). Has there been a discussion regarding the format? My feeling that it would be strongly useful for foreigners to see that they must dial a zero when doing a call here in Germany and I would therefore suggest to leave it here. Buan~dewiki (talk) 15:56, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

I don't know about any discussions regarding this, but there is an optional extension (you can turn it on by clicking "Preferences" on the top of the screen and then the "Gadgets" tab where the "Error highlighter" is listed under "experimental".) which I mostly follow. Turning that extension on shows you a warning message whenever phone numbers are in the wrong format. Unfortunately, the zero in brackets is considered a "wrong" format by this extension and I have followed its advice. You can of course bring this up at the Travellers Pub, as I frankly do not know where else such a discussion should be held. Best wishes. Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:03, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
Ok, thanks; I will try to bring that up -- it is certainly not an error to have the zero (at least formally, the brackets indicate a number only necessary under certain conditions) Buan~dewiki (talk) 15:44, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
I understand where you're coming from, but I am frankly ignorant as to whether implementing such an exception would cause more technological problems than it's worth. Furthermore, I think most people calling those numbers without the leading +49 will know that a zero is required without it being there in brackets. Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:59, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

CarGo tram?[edit]

is there any point in mentioning the CarGo tram on the Dresden page anymore? As far as I know they are now only run occasionally to "air them out" a little. There doesn't seem much chance for visitors to see them. Griffindd (talk)

You are probably right. Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:38, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Reading while travelling[edit]

for me it's a special pleasure to read a novel/book about a place while actually in that place. Sometimes I find it helpful to read novels about a place before I go there. Do you think there is room for suggestions about that kind of reading here? Griffindd (talk) 09:35, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Sure. But I would not just limit it to books. Movies or TV series might also enhance the travel experience or inspire travel in the first place. Have a look at the sections of our guides on Berlin , Washington DC or Chicago to see how something like that might look like. Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:16, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

ah---literature and movies as headings. ok. I'll see what I can come up with. Thanks for pointing that out. Griffindd (talk) 15:08, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

The section headings are Read and Watch. You can see them (well, Read, at least) at Wikivoyage:Article templates/Sections#Understand. Powers (talk) 21:50, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
Well apparently many articles do not use the correct headings then, but you are of course correct in that we have a verb based approach to section headings. Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:30, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

bus aggregator[edit]

even if users are not allowed to find out in articles, I would like to know: which is the best bus aggregator? Griffindd (talk) 07:14, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Have you had a look here already? Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:00, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

ah. well that's the German version of what I had linked. Griffindd (talk) 17:42, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Okay. Be my guest to mention more on the talk page. And you can of course raise the issue of aggregators in some appropriate place (the pub for starters). Maybe we might want to reconsider our stance and modify it as to have a very small handfull of pages where aggregators are listed, which makes the task of maintenance much less daunting. Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:05, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

The information is corrected according to historical facts. Asiento system[edit]

While the Portuguese were directly involved in trading enslaved peoples, the Spanish empire relied on the asiento system, awarding merchants (mostly from other countries) the license to trade enslaved people to their colonies. During the first Atlantic system most of these traders were Portuguese, giving them a near-monopoly during the era. Dutch, English, and French traders also participated in the slave trade P. C. Emmer, The Dutch in the Atlantic Economy, 1580–1880. Trade, Slavery and Emancipation (1998), p. 17.--181.137.12.115 00:01, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

The Asiento was the permission given by the Spanish government to other countries to sell people as slaves to the Spanish colonies, between the years 1543 and 1834.--181.137.12.115 00:01, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

In British history, it usually refers to the contract between Spain and Great Britain created in 1713 that dealt with the supply of African slaves for the Spanish territories in the Americas. The British government passed its rights to the South Sea Company.--181.137.12.115 00:01, 11 November 2016 (UTC)


The slave trade was complex, but frankly many European countries were involved and Spain was no exception. Using legal terminologies to suggest otherwise is very unfortunate. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:37, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
There is a huge difference between direct participation in the slave trade and the asiento system. Believe me. I am a man who has recently earned a PhD in British and Spanish history. Also I have a PhD in Latin American history.--181.137.12.115 00:01, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
In the 1650s Spain sought to enter the slave trade directly, sending ships to Angola to purchase slaves and toying with the idea of a military alliance with Kongo, the powerful African kingdom north of Angola. But these ideas were abandoned and the Spanish returned to Portuguese and then Dutch interests to supply slaves. Later in history, Britain and Holland dominated the slave trade. The slaves were sent mostly to the New World colonies.--181.137.12.115 00:01, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
The Treaty of Utrecht granted Britain an Asiento lasting 30 years to supply the Spanish colonies with 4,800 slaves per year. Britain was permitted to open offices in Buenos Aires, Caracas, Cartagena, Havana, Panama, Portobello and Vera Cruz to arrange the slave trade. --181.137.12.115 00:01, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
First of all, please sign all your contributions on talk pages by typing the "tilde" (~ this symbol) four times in a rwo (like this: ~~~~) secondly, surely we can find some compromise wording all sides can live with. Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:59, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
By July the South Sea Company had arranged contracts with the Royal African Company to supply the necessary African slaves to Jamaica. £10 was paid for a slave aged over 16, £8 for one under 16 but over 10. Two-thirds were to be male, and 90% adult. The company trans-shipped 1,230 slaves from Jamaica to America in the first year, plus any that might have been added (against standing instructions) by the ship's captains on their own behalf. On arrival of the first cargoes, the local authorities refused to accept the Asiento, which had still not been officially confirmed there by the Spanish authorities. The slaves were eventually sold at a loss in the West Indies.--181.137.12.115 00:09, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
In 1714 the government announced that a quarter of profits would be reserved for the Queen and a further 7.5% for a financial advisor, Manasseh Gilligan. Some Company board members refused to accept the contract on these terms, and the government was obliged to reverse its decision.--181.137.12.115 00:09, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
Despite these setbacks, the company continued, having raised £200,000 to finance the operations. In 1714 2,680 slaves were carried, and for 1716–17, 13,000 more, but the trade continued to be unprofitable. An import duty of 33 pieces of eight was charged on each slave (although for this purpose some slaves might be counted only as a fraction of a slave, depending on quality). One of the extra trade ships was sent to Cartagena in 1714 carrying woollen goods, despite warnings that there was no market for them there, and they remained unsold for two years.--181.137.12.115 00:09, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
The Spanish empire didn't engage in the slave trade directly. The Spanish empire relied on the asiento system, awarding merchants (mostly from other countries) the license to trade enslaved people to their colonies.--181.137.12.115 00:14, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
The British slave trade was carefully regulated from its early days. Even the first efforts of privateers – notably Sir John Hawkins– were subject to royal approval. In the 18th century, royal backing (it was, after all, the Royal African Company) gave way to full-blown parliamentary support. Indeed Parliament spent as much time discussing (and legislating for) the expansion and regulation of the slave trade as it was to spend on abolition a century later, passing dozens of Acts to fine-tune the trade.--181.137.12.115 00:49, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
Similarly, slavery in the colonies was regulated by colonial laws approved in London. --181.137.12.115 00:49, 11 November 2016 (UTC)


The English, for example, established a joint-stock enterprise, the Royal African Company, but this monopoly failed to provide planters with what they wanted and simply gave way under the growing colonial demand for more forced African labour. When a freer British slave trade was finally established – after protracted political and commercial argument – it ushered in an era of massive expansion. Enslaved Africans crossed the Atlantic in huge and increasing numbers. By the peak years of the 18th century, the British were shipping 40,000 people a year. Meanwhile the Spanish empire didn't engage in the slave trade directly. The Spanish empire relied on the asiento system, awarding merchants (mostly from other countries) the license to trade enslaved people to their colonies. --181.137.12.115 00:42, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
The initially dominant Portuguese were replaced by the Dutch in the late 16th century. They, in their turn were usurped by the British and French from the 17th century. These two struggled for supremacy in the 18th century, not merely in the Atlantic but all over the world, from India to North America and the Caribbean. Although Britain – and especially Liverpool – dominated the slave trade by mid-century, the ports of Nantes and Bordeaux and, above all, the expansive colony of St Domingue – what would become Haiti – threatened to push the British aside. That threat ended with the outbreak of the French Revolution in 1789, the Haitian slave revolution of 1791 and the subsequent collapse of French power in the enslaved Caribbean. Meanwhile the Spanish empire didn't engage in the slave trade directly. The Spanish empire relied on the asiento system, awarding merchants (mostly from other countries) the license to trade enslaved people to their colonies. --181.137.12.115 01:01, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

You are eligible to vote for DotM, OtBP and FTT in Spanish Wikivoyage[edit]

As you have more than 25 main namespace edits and have a more-than-4-days-old registered and autoconfirmed account, you are elegible to vote for the Destination of the Month, Off-the-Beaten Path and Featured Travel Topic articles of 2017 in Spanish Wikivoyage.

You can vote support (a favor) or against (en contra) of any candidate along with your argument on the following subpages:

Regards. --Zerabat (talk) 16:13, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

Religion of the British monarch[edit]

Here's a relevant article for you.

Best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:43, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:59, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
Sure thing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:00, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

yup[edit]

an odd one https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hajk cheers

JarrahTree (talk) 09:21, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

Illuminations[edit]

You mentioned something about Light festivals in the Christmas and New year travel article.

However, there are other 'light' based events some of which are linked with religious festivals, and others which are entirely secular.

In the United Kingdom for example you have the Blackpool Illuminations from a far earlier time than Xmas, but which are entirely secular. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:38, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Well it takes no astronomy genius to find out that Late December is pretty dark in most of Europe. And it is only fitting that people (who by and large are a darkness-averse bunch) have put up as many lights as they could during that time. There is also the point that any sort of light display will be much more impressive during long dark nights than during short nights that don't really get all that dark. I really don't think religion can claim primacy over that urge to light a candle in the darkness. It is one of the reasons (besides the lack of cold) why Christmas in the tropics felt supremely weird to me. But then again, I am a rather secular person. Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:42, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

VFDs[edit]

Just a note to avoid potential frustration, but per your comment about deleting Hamburg Airport, that article is not a candidate for deletion and should not be listed at VFD per the WV:Deletion policy; if the airport doesn't merit a standalone article then per existing policy the article would become a redirect. -- Ryan • (talk) • 17:45, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

I know. Our deletion policy says we can only ever delete page creation vandalism (which does not need to be nominated for deletion) and travel topics. Everything else gets redirected. I think we have had the discussion including my somewhat tongue in cheek to proposal to rename vfd "vote for redirect". Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:49, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Germany[edit]

Thanks for fixing my typo. I usually change "boasts" whenever I find it. I understand that "has" is pedestrian, but "boasts" seems so commonly used that it is trite. But I'll leave it alone unless it is in a business listing, where it would seem to be touting. I am also not interested in fighting over words here. (In Wikipedia, I will fight to the death in a cage match over words ;-) but not here.) Regards, Ground Zero (talk) 01:53, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

No problem. Maybe "boasts" isn't the right word either, but I think just saying Germany has a bunch of operas and the likes might be a bit of an understatement, given both the number and the quality of (often publicly subsidized) venues of "high culture" in the country. Hobbitschuster (talk) 02:11, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Ivre à vélo[edit]

I don't know the specific law, but it is apparently enforced so rarely that it makes the news when it is! In Toulouse, a guy was fined €500 and was banned from driving for four months after a 5AM police patrol caught him cycling with 1.36 g in his bloodstream. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 01:24, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Interesting. I know that there is a (rarely enforced) limit of 1.3 Permille, but there recently was (in my opinion pretty wrongheaded) talk of reducing said limit. After all, when you reduce the DUI limit for people on bikes, won't that induce more people to drive drunk who would have otherwise taken a bike? Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:57, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, that was what the guy who was arrested was complaining about. He talks of a brief smugness as he passed the "vast police control" at Matabiau station, thinking he'd made the right decision to cycle as he knew he'd probably end the night drunk, but the smile was wiped from his face when the police stopped and breathalised him anyway. It seems like a stitch up to force people to pay for taxis, in my view. On a separate note, I was impressed by the underground when I visited Toulouse last year; fully automatic and kept the same 5 min frequency until about 2AM every night. I just wish the same kind of money was spent on transport in regional cities in the UK --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:45, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
I am not entirely sure of the details, but there used to be a possibility for cities in France to levy a public transit tax (the tax was levied on other stuff but it could only be spent on public transit) and they could raise it higher or get a bonus when they built a rail based solution. This was - at least in the article I read - cited as a reason for the renaissance of trams in France from three systems in the 1980s to three dozen today... And yeah, the taxi thing might be a reason. As might be stupid "law and order" measures - at least "public drunkenness" is not yet an offense... Nor is - as far as I am aware - "resisting arrest". Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:02, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Sir Bani Yas Island[edit]

  • You know, my friend, I never really know what to do with these pages that are created with the specific purpose of touting this or that business, featuring said business as the only entry (the tout didn't even bother to write the place's name). This is why I tag them vfd. I'm grateful that you took notice, and hope this page can stand and eventually be useful. Ibaman (talk) 16:54, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
Well, it appears that the user in question asked an admin (Ikan, in that case) what to do and was told that he could create that article (albeit, he seems to have misunderstood exactly how much detail an article would need to stand on its own), so it might be biting newbies to delete it straight away. I fear the article will ultimately be merged/deleted anyway, but I am willing to give it some chance and not vfd it out of the gate. Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:18, 25 January 2017 (UTC)
I agree with you entirely, Hobbitschuster. I hope someone develops the article, even if it ends up having to be merged with some other article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:19, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Your welcome to me[edit]

Wow, a lot of things and links. But thanks for it nonetheless. Better to know than to make something wrong. Harry shacklebolt (talk) 21:27, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

No problem. If you have any question, do not hesitate to ask. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:52, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Airline links[edit]

I read that discussion but didn't weigh in. I think if there is a dispute about the policy, the most effective way of getting resolution is to propose a change to the policy to clarify it. I'm with you: when I click on a link, I want it to take me to useful information. Linking KLM to flying is going to irritate me and other readers: in virtually every context it will be clear that KLM is an airline, so I don't have to read an article about flying to understand KLM. I think it's better to leave airline links red, and let them be removed by wikignomes like me. Ground Zero (talk) 18:59, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

I have raised the issue in the pub where I hope it draws more eyeballs. Feel free to weigh in. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:03, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
Regarding your comment about administrators, I am surprised that you are not one. Would you be interested in being nominated? Being nominated by me may not help you, but I would be willing to make this nomination if you are interested. Ground Zero (talk) 00:38, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
I think this is not the first time someone has approached me about that. I fear I am not diplomatic enough to be one... Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:41, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Travel between Syria and Jordan[edit]

Hi there, thank you for your continuous help. :-) Regarding the following warning under Jordan:

Travel Warning WARNING: due to the ongoing civil war in Syria, it is strongly advised not to travel to/from Syria at this point in time

This seems a little arbitrary to me. For one thing, the war seems to be kind of won for Assad with the fall of Aleppo and the support from Russia. Also, I never had the impression that anything between the Jordan border and Damascus is really dangerous because the war mostly takes place in the north and northeast of Syria. There are some attacks on Damascus but it is not a war zone.

I believe we shouldn't just amplify here what mainstream media is teaching us. If you have anything more profound and maybe some links, I think this would be helpful. Also, the decision is on everyone's own side. It might be important to say, that there is a civil war going on and travelling there is dangerous, if this is really the case between Jordan and Damascus, but apart from that anything else should not be our decision. Also, we don't want to indicate that anyone still in Syria must be crazy, which is what this kind of sentence might suggest.

Maybe we should just write something like for Iraq in the first sentence, because this travel guide really concerns Jordan not Syria. Also, this is the chapter where advice on coming in to Jordan from Syria is given, hence, one already must be there in the first place.

What do you think?

Ceever (talk) 11:01, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

I will move this discussion to the pub to draw more eyeballs. I hope that's okay with you Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:52, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Anti-Semitism in Berlin[edit]

Hi, User:Hobbitschuster. I'm considering spending most of 2018 in Berlin. I don't wear a kippah, but I also don't keep it a secret that I'm Jewish. Which Berlin neighborhoods have a reputation for anti-Semitism and how bad are things there on a day-to-day basis? Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:04, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

I mostly know it from media reports (the incident I was alluding to was of a rabbi wearing a kippah who was beaten up but got better and was defiantly declaring he won't let those people take over his Kiez on TV shortly afterwards), but the issue seems to be connected to people of Middle Eastern descent and Muslims and seems to mostly be an issue in Kreuzberg and Neukölln. Far right extremism is mostly an issue in rundown neighborhoods of the Eastern periphery but I haven't heard of antisemitism in particular there. That said, Berlin has a vibrant and large Jewish community (both expat Israeli and other) and some articles I've read insinuate that some Berlin Jews actually consider other Jews disagreeing on the issue of Israel (sometimes disruptively so) a more annoying issue than antisemitism. If you read German well enough, I can search for some articles on the phenomenon when I get home later today. Have safe travels and I quite enjoyed all my stays in Berlin, including a visit to the Jewish Museum which is excellent (though the security controls serve as a stark reminder of the reality of antisemitism). To sum it up outright violence makes national headline news due to its rareness, but unpleasant enquiries as to your stance on Israel (and the debates that might result from your response) are very likely when people know you're Jewish. I know few adult Germans with no opinion on Israel - and they are often strongly held - and Jews are often asked to justify explain or condemn policies of Israel even if they aren't Israeli. Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:37, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
My German reading ability is not so good. I will have to watch what happens both in the U.S. and Germany this year. I know my girlfriend would be disappointed not to go to Germany next year, but part of the reason I'm thinking about it is that it might be safer than staying here! I do remember the incident with the rabbi. I've been in Kreuzberg without incident, but as I said, I don't wear a kippah. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:29, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
Well, as I think you can see from my answer, I am not entirely sure how to judge the situation myself. I am not Jewish myself and outside the internet I don't think I know any Jew personally, so I have to rely on media reports to a large extent. That said, here is an article in Jüdische Allgemeine (a newspaper published by the German Zentralrat der Juden, mentioned as the "Central Council of Jews in Germany" in the English edition of the Zeit article) that argues that Neukölln is not a good place to go for someone who is visibly Jewish. It partially refers to this article from major German slightly left of center weekly Die Zeit about a rabbi's experience on a 45 walk through Neukölln. There's an English version of the Zeit article here. Apart from the "experiment" itself, the Zeit article also alludes to a bit of the debate and events in Germany in the past. I of course can't make the decision for you and I think it would be sad if you'd decide Berlin isn't safe enough for you (though as I said earlier, it continues to attract Jewish immigration from both the former Soviet Union and Israel), but I hope that what little information I can give you is helpful for you. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:40, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
I felt perfectly safe during my first 2 visits to Berlin (1 lasting a month, the other a week), but I may not be so visibly Jewish. I would not like to be asked to answer for everything Israel's right-wing government does, and Germans, maybe more than other people, should be aware that if there had been no Shoah, there probably never would have been an Israel. The most popular Jewish party before World War II was the Yiddishist Labor Bund in Poland, which sought to promote and maintain Yiddish culture and combat anti-Semitism as loyal Polish citizens and part of an international movement of workers and peasants, and it had counterparts in other countries. I think the Bund's point of view was highly moral, and Zionism even at its best, in the hands of left-wingers, is very problematic. I don't mind stating my outrage at the racist and colonialist actions taken by the right-wing government in Israel. But anyone who's really honest would know why Israel exists, and that's because the Bund's vision was a tragic failure. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:06, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Deletion policy[edit]

Regarding this edit, I don't disagree with the content, but I also don't think it belongs in our deletion policy. The practice you describe is not really a matter of deleting or not, but rather of independent articles vs combined articles with redirects. Wouldn't it make more sense to include it in Wikivoyage:What is an article?? JuliasTravels (talk) 17:06, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

I think it fits in both places, the sentence starts out with "they are too fine grained" and some minor pcv places do get deleted outirght, so there's a case to be made to have it mentioned in both, but if you think having it there is better, I won't fight the case. Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:13, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Page stats[edit]

Note there is an error with the new Petscan you need to go to the Page properties tab and tick the first box to get only namespaces --Traveler100 (talk) 00:13, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Meaning what? Is the 604 figure accurate or the 539? Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:16, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
539. call the probram, go to second tab, tick first box and press Do It. This removed categories from the count. --Traveler100 (talk) 00:27, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
Got it. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:30, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

I'm not being nosy....[edit]

Well, I am. There are three Gs in "aggregator". Ground Zero (talk) 00:27, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

I knew I was spelling it wrong. Be my guest to edit accordingly. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:59, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Technical question[edit]

Hi Hobbitschuster. I have a technical question concerning the Hebrew Wikivoyage version of the Template:See template... (the question is technical so you don't need to know Hebrew to help with this one). I would like to change the way this template displays a certain element ... the external URL link which is supplied with that template... so that the external link would be displayed under a Blue globe icon.svg globe icon, instead of how it is currently displayed as a link from the main name of the attraction (the same way this is implemented with all the listings templates of the French Wikivoyage). Do you by any chance know which template/code I need to edit in order to make such a change? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 18:54, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I have no idea. Personally I think the globe icon looks ugly, but that's neither here nor there. I am really bad with the coding and technology details, maybe if you raise the issue in the pub someone knows the answer? Sorry that I can't be of more help... Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:09, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
Okay. Thanks. ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 19:24, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
I'm sorry. As I said, maybe raise it in the pub. Unfortunately I also don't know who the resident coding expert is. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:27, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Bureacratese[edit]

Sure, give examples - the longer and more pompous, the better. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:12, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Is there a long scary name for this kind of Bureaucratese itself? Laughs ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:27, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
I would only know of "Behördensprache" or "Behördendeutsch" which to me is neither particularly long nor particularly scary. Some examples of (supposed or real DDR-German)
"Sättigungsbeilage" (for e.g. potatoes when accompanying e.g. meat)
"Erdmöbel" (coffin, standard German "Sarg" of dubious authenticity)
"Jahresendflügepuppe" ("secualarized" version of "Christmas angel" - Weihnachtsengel of dubious authenticity)
"Arbeiterschließfach" (derisive, not used by the regime or its advocates for the small Plattenbau)
"Zweizimmerwohnung" (standard sized Plattenbau-unit; literally two room apartment)
"Kombinat" (vertically and/or horizontally integrated VEB [see below])
"Antifaschistischer Schutzwall" (I kid you not, the official GDR term for the Berlin Wall besides "befestigte Grenze")
"Reisekader" (the higher ups who had clearance to go where normal GDR citizens could not go e.g. the NSW [see below] - required travel in pairs and being married in addition to impeccable support for the regime and membership in the SED
"Plansollübererfüllung" (producing more than the five year plan demanded - very desirable and a thing the news liked to trumpet)
And then there are the delightful abbreviations:
VEB (volkseigener Betrieb; the GDR equivalent of a Sowchose, a "company owned by the people" i.e. a nationalized company)
DDR, often with unsere DDR (German for GDR)
LPG (Landwirtschaftliche Porduktionsgenossenschaft; the GDR equivalent of "Kolchose", i.e. a "collectivized" agricultural unit)
NSW (nicht-sozialistisches Wirtschaftsgebiet GDR-German for the West; only "Reisekader" could go there)
SED (Sozialistische Einheitspartei; the ruling party)
ZK (Zentralkommittee, usually in the form ZK der SED - the actual rulers)
FDJ (Freie Deutsche Jugend; the quasi-mandatory state run youth organisation; not being a member could mean not being allowed access to university; children of protestant ministers often weren't members; Angela Merkel was despite her dad being a minister)
HO (Handelsorganisation; a supermarket)
MfS / Stasi (Ministerium für Staatssicherheit; the secret police)
NVA (Nationale Volksarmee; the military - military service was mandatory, conscientious objectors were put into engineering battalions as "Bausoldaten" which among other things built the Harbor in Mukran, Sassnitz, Rügen and were housed in Prora)
And then of course there were the "Plaste und Elaste aus Schkopau" an untranslatable term for the chemical products made in and around Schkopau, during times of petroleum scarcity with lignite as the basic resource (the GDR had and still has an abundance of the stuff, but it stinks when its burned and is very inefficient.
I might find more at some later time, but this might give you an idea. Also both Ulbricht and Honnecker (the de facto leader of the GDR for almost all its existence) had weird voices and spoke in a nasal pseudo-Saxon accent which is especially insane in the case of Honnecker who was born and grew up in Saarland. Honnecker also had a propensity to swallow syllables so that "Sozialistisch" became something "soziaisch" and the likes. There are probably speeches of him somewhere, but it is hard to describe if you don't speak German. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:12, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Wikimedia blog post?[edit]

Hi Hobbitschuster,

I work with the Wikimedia Foundation on their official blog. When I'm not working, I edit on the English Wikipedia as The ed17.

I'm writing today to see if you'd like to write a "Why I" post for the blog. It's an irregular series that aims to bring out the voices of content creators like you. I'm hoping that you will be willing to write a few hundred words on why you edit Wikivoyage, a project we don't feature enough on the blog.

What do you think? Thanks for your time. :-) Ed Erhart (WMF) (talk) 20:09, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, I could imagine doing that. Do you still need me? Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:44, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
Hey Hobbitschuster, I'm sorry for the delay. I've only just seen this message. I'd still love to have a piece written by you! One reason why I took this job was to humanize the movement within the wider world, but I haven't done a great job of getting voices from outside of Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons. The prompt I usually give people is "what makes you volunteer your most precious resource (time) to edit?" I'd love to get 400–700 words from you on that—and perhaps what got you to start editing—with a few pictures to post on the blog. Thank you very much! Ed Erhart (WMF) (talk) 20:08, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Broken breadcrumbs for Driving travel topics[edit]

Swept in from the pub

So after some recent edits, there now appears the "broken breadcrumb" symbol at the bottom of e.g. Driving in Germany or Driving in Iceland. How do we fix this? Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:21, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

As you have now created the category it should fix itself over time. To quicken it up, press edit on an article and save without doing any changes. --Traveler100 (talk) 21:16, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
I did as you said for Driving in Iceland but it did not fix the problem. Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:06, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
Why was that swept to my talk page? Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:43, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
The instructions for sweeping say "A simple question asked by a user can be swept to that user's talk page, but consider if the documentation needs a quick update to make it clearer for the next user with the same question." And I wasn't really sure where else to put it. Feel free to move it if you think there is a better place for it. Ground Zero (talk) 15:52, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
I'm not sure, but perhaps Talk:Driving, especially in case the problem reappears.... Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:53, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
Sure, feel free to move it wherever you think is best. I'm just trying to keep the pub from becoming so full of old discussions that people stop using it. I won't always move things to the right place, so I'm not offended if someone repositions something. Ground Zero (talk) 21:31, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Recent events[edit]

Hobbitschuster -

Despite our differences of opinion in the raging debate about Kassel vs. Wernigerode as OtBP, I hope you know I consider you an indispensable and invaluable member of our community. I'm aware that I can come off like a hothead sometimes, and I hope I haven't gotten under your skin too much. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:11, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Likewise. I hope I haven't stepped on any of your toes. I know my "humor" is hard to get sometimes and I may have had some passive aggressive outbursts as well. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:44, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Railway station listing[edit]

Hi there,

I just changed a listing for the railway station you added very recently to the article of Romanshorn into a marker. I think the marker works better here, as there is really not much to say about this rather small and straight-forward station. However, feel free to change it back to a listing if you think that'd be better. Drat70 (talk) 08:55, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

No problem Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:44, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Leave of less presence[edit]

Swept in from the pub

As you might've noticed I have taken on a job abroad and besides my Internet being sketchy at the moment, I also have less time to spend on WV. I hope I'll still be able to contribute but I wanted to let you know, lest you perceive me as just disappearing without word or trace. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:57, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

@Hobbitschuster: Thanks for the heads-up: you're a familiar face and have many, many welcomed additions here. I hope this is a good move for you and I'm glad that you're still interested in participating as you can. —Justin (koavf)TCM 19:59, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
@Hobbitschuster: Always a pleasure. Best wishes! Cheers -- Matroc (talk) 21:26, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
@Hobbitschuster: Good luck! --Andrewssi2 (talk) 21:32, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
@Hobbitschuster: Thanks for your great work here and all the best with the future mate. Gizza (roam) 23:17, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
@Hobbitschuster: We miss you already! I hope the job abroad gives you new opportunities for travel. Ground Zero (talk) 00:20, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
Good luck, and we'll keep the light on for you. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:59, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
Best of luck with the new job and home, Herr Hobbitschuster. You will be missed. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:08, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
@Hobbitschuster: Good luck, hope to hear from you again. /Yvwv (talk) 15:10, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
Thanks. I hope I'll have more stable WiFi and a bit of time to edit soon... Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:17, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
@Hobbitschuster: In the wake of what has proven to be the alarming disappearance of many of the most prominent Wikivoyagers (Ypsilon, Ryan, others), you've become more and more a backbone of our editing team. Your inability to contribute as much as before is totally understandable, but I do sincerely hope to continue to see you around here from time to time. Your contributions to our site are greatly appreciated and will be missed. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 23:13, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Thank you all for your kind words. I now have WiFi as it were, but the signal is never strong or stable and many of my days are occupied mostly with work, eating and social calls. I hope I'll find a better arrangement to get some editing time in edgewise in the near future. At any rate, by the time the leaves fall it'll be on to the next chapter anyway. Whatever that may be. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:24, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

An award for you![edit]

Barncompass.png The Wikivoyage Barncompass
For your tireless advocacy in favor of the most underrated letter of the German alphabet, ß. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 01:59, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
Thank you. I shall put "defensor eszettis" in my sigil ;-) Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:04, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

I can be one confusingly logical Wikivoyger![edit]

Swept from the User talk: AndreCarrotflower conversation

(In response to User: AndreCarrotflower) Everything you said is contradictory in one way or another, but I understand the point. Creating something is often a hard process, and if there is a better option, we shouldn't do it. I'll keep the Greyhound off. -Signed, the amazing Zanygenius. Visit my chat page 23:54, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Could you explain what you mean with your first sentence? I'm not sure I understand it. Hobbitschuster (talk) 08:35, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Okay, in the past, I have gotten into heated debates with people, and last night, I decided NOT TO PUSH THE POINT, however, I don't really think User: AndreCarrotflower knew what he was talking about, as all transit can be changed without notice. Buses, trains, Transit, and maglev can all go off the line at any time, but for the most part, they all have a good track record. (Get it? Track record? 😉 )

rail travel in Germany -no DB night or car trains?[edit]

is it time to either remove sentences about DB pulling out of night & car trains or to at least move them to the end of their sections? Does anyone really want to know about who does not offer those services right at the beginning of those sections? Griffindd (talk) 11:23, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

I think we should mention that DB doesn't do that any more (though I think the Nightjet can still be booked via the DB website) but you are right, the "DB doesn't do that any more" is partly an artifact from an earlier "DB will soon cease doing that" wording. I think moving to a less prominent place is fine. Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:25, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

ok...I gave it a go. Not sure what to make of DB apparently ending something in Dec 2016 but still running car trains to Sylt. Griffindd (talk) 11:46, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

There is a difference in the kind of trains they used to run and what they are doing now. What they used to do were trains with sleepers that went really long distances where you could check in your car in - say - Hamburg - and not worry about it until you arrive at your holiday destination in - say - France. That - at least according to DB - was a money losing business and their aging fleet was in dire need of overhaul, which gave them the last reason to get out of it. On the other hand, the only way to get a car onto the island of Sylt is to take either the DB or the RDC train (or a ferry from Denmark, but very few Germans even think of that). That does not require offering sleeping accommodation, it does not require using tracks in a foreign country and apparently it still makes a handsome profit for DB. Of course it might be a bit paradoxical the way it is worded right now, but we might make it more precise by talking about long distance car trains, because mainland Schleswig Holstein to Sylt is many things, but long distance it is not. Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:52, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

ah. ok. Thanks. That was..quite comprehensive. Griffindd (talk) 12:08, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

You're welcome. Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:19, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Yep[edit]

That was pretty sloppy. I'll try to be more careful. Ground Zero (talk) 18:54, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

No problem. We all make mistakes from time to time. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:01, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Addis Ababa#By train "Get in" edits[edit]

Dear Hobbitschuster, Regarding you edit 3247626, yesterday on Addis Ababa#By train ("Get In" section). According to Xinhua newspaper article one week ago (2017-07-22) the Addis Ababa–Lebu Railway Station is not yet opened to public and commercial service will start in October 2017. Should we keep the article as is for 2 months or ? Best regards, --Jeanot (talk) 16:26, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

The WP article (where my information is from) is insanely unclear about this, but I say as we don't seem to have someone who is there at the moment we should leave it as is rather than having to scramble to correct it two months from now. Anyway, if the service does take longer in being inaugurated than one should think, we will have to edit the article(s) accordingly. Are other stations along that route already in service? Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:43, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
Hi. Actually, I am here nowadays. According to local people and Djibouti citizen resident in Addis Ababa, the passenger commercial service is not yet started for this railway. Information is hard to find as no-one even took it! It is planned in two month, but plans may be changed. I guess the only section open for passengers is Dire Dawa to Djibouti, as the old meter-gauge w:Ethio-Djibouti Railways was shuted down: The WP article w:Railway stations in Ethiopia seems upto date. I will try to collect more information, expats are exited by the trip, but local seems to see less interest for a 10-hour trip which can take 1 hour by flight (or 2 hours flight if it stops in Dire Dawa). Regards, --Jeanot (talk) 15:56, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
What about those locals who can't afford to fly? Is there a significant number of Ethiopians who can afford the train but can't afford to fly? Also, a lot of locals will probably travel parts of the route (which was mainly intended for freight anyway). Anyway, it would be great to know at least ballpark figures for ticket prices and/or a website where they can be bought (I know those don't always exist) Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:37, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
Hi Hobbitschuster, It seems that most of them are not travelling, or at least not "for touristic visit". Those who have family outside Addis Ababa visit by mini-bus (therefore they visit only the city they come from). Some said that I (and all foreigners) visited more place in Ethiopia than them… May the railway change that and make people to spend holidays on Djibouti' seaside? Regarding the railway, I didn't see any official website or even practical informations about passenger service on WP nor search engines. I may go to the Lebu Railway Station soon to see if there is information to collect there (as you see Station isn't so close from city centre): as modest "train enthusiast", I also wish to make the trip to Djibouti by train (for now it is more a "Do" than a "Get In"). Regards, --Jeanot (talk) 09:13, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

You were right.[edit]

Your educated guess is correct. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 05:49, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. Nice to hear. Hobbitschuster (talk) 06:01, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

How does one insert non-English Wikipedia links?[edit]

Swept in from the pub

So I have seen some listings having Wikipedia links to other language editions. How is that done? I was trying to do this in the Erfurt article but just couldn't find a way to do it... Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:15, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

w:de:Erfurt for example. ϒpsilon (talk) 20:17, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
In a listing, though? I want the listing with number 7 here have this as its WP link. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:52, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
I think that in a listing a reader would expect the W logo to take them to the English Wikipedia. I think that we should only link to other language WPs in a way which is clear to the reader that it is in another language, and I am not sure that policy would allow that. (A special case is the Simple English Wikipedia, which might be useful for a very few travel topics.) AlasdairW (talk) 22:23, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
Perhaps "see also X in the German-language Wikipedia" would be clear enough? K7L (talk) 14:51, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Mapframes klutzing up due to airport markers[edit]

Swept in from the pub

Have a look at the maps in articles like Erfurt or Kleve. They are zoomed out way too much and if you add a "zoom" parameter, it zooms into empty fields between the city and the airport... How do we fix this? Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:48, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Add coordinates (just the values, not "lat=" and "long="!) for a random location at where you want to have the map zoomed in a little more, like I did in Kleve. These coords will then become your new map center and you can add a zoom parameter if you need the map to be zoomed in or out around that point. ϒpsilon (talk) 18:25, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
Confirming above. "If the (lat, long) and zoom are omitted, {{mapframe}} alone will now default to a scale and position that fits all of the current article's POIs onto the map. These defaults are usually adequate." from Wikivoyage:How to use dynamic maps -- Matroc (talk) 03:16, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Deletion candidates[edit]

Hi, you put AfD tags on two articles Badagry and Sindhuli, however I can't seems to find their nominations at Wikivoyage:Votes for deletion. Please either remove the tags or make thier nominations as per guidelines. Ping me whatever you decide. Thank you. --Saqib (talk) 14:32, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

And Manendragarh as well. --Saqib (talk) 14:33, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
The former two seem to have been created by drive by editors and possibly Telstra. The latter I have put on the vfd page with a reason as to why. Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:34, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Non articles, copvyos, egregious violations of our style rules and other created by drive-by editors[edit]

Swept in from the pub

Now we seem to be getting a few more visits from outside of our usual editor pool, which is great, but it does raise the issue of non-articles, one line (or less) stubs that look something like this or this or this. It has thus far been practiced that those were converted into outlines in the hopes of them maybe, hopefully, some day developing into "real" articles. I am not sure this is the right approach. What do you think we should do with this - for lack of a better term - category of article? Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:09, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Spam has always been deleted. An "article" created as a single paragraph with a link driving traffic elsewhere would qualify for speedy deletion. K7L (talk) 17:12, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
My inclination for Kutai National Park was to remove the link (on the assumption that the link was commercial spam), and I see that User:Ikan Kekek has already done that. Assuming that the park is actually a valid destination rather than a sightseeing opportunity, it might be nice to add an outline for it, and it needs to say where it's located, so it still needs some work.
I think that User:Ibaman did the right thing with Nnewi. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:36, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Your note on draft articles.[edit]

You have a note on your draft article: "Feel free to edit this page as you would with any page in mainspace". If I could make a suggestion, I think this would be a little clearer: "This is a draft article. Feel free to edit this page as you would with any article in mainspace.". Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 17:29, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Hello[edit]

fellow human how are you doing today? --Warfare910 (talk) 15:54, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Fine. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:09, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Sheki Region[edit]

Baku Region and Northeastern Azerbaijan also have "rayons" listed.Ceever (talk) 20:07, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

I think they too should be removed. What do you think? Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:09, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
Yes, sure. I ll put them into the header where they where mentioned before with other articles, like this: https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Sheki_Region&oldid=3115811 Cheers, Ceever (talk) 09:35, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
I'm not sure about this, but if you think this works, why not? Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:54, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Apple ][[edit]

Yes, the Apple desktops of the pre-Macintosh, pre-Lisa era did use branding like "Apple ][" and "Apple ///" to signify "apple two" and "apple three". This is not a typographic error and [sic] is not in order. K7L (talk) 16:34, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

Well [sic] can also be used when what you intend to communicate is "yes, I know this looks like a mistake, but it is genuinely how this is spelled". Or "That's their own inane spelling" or anything of the likes. It's not just used for transmitting an error or weird word choice made in the original. Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:40, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
Perhaps <!-- [sic] --> would be appropriate? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:12, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
Sure, why not? Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:15, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
The '][' branding was specific to the earliest versions of the Apple II, just as the slash branding ("Apple //") was specific to later versions. If we want to talk about all the Apple IIs, we should use standard Roman numerals. See w:Apple II series#Renditions of the "II" name. Powers (talk) 21:02, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

Collaboration of the month proposal[edit]

Have made a proposal based, if I remember correctly, for something you previously suggested:- Wikivoyage:Collaboration of the month#Eat listings for cities in Germany. --Traveler100 (talk) 06:34, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, yes I had indeed made such a proposal. Some may be harvested from de-WV. Others from the tourism websites of the cities in question. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:29, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

What's going on?[edit]

I have a failure to understand your Unexplained Revert to Andratx. I noticed a new article, and it looked sloppy, so I was going to try my hand at fixing it. First things first, I organized it, but something was off: IT wasn't clear how to "get in" for the average traveler, so I made it crystal that you must enter via waterway. I didn't do much else because I had errands, and (research!😉), And so I stopped there.

If you could tell me what's wrong, I gurantee that I can fix it and avoid bthis error again. -Signed, the amazing Zanygenius. Visit my chat page 00:15, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Can markers have a wikipedia parameter, if not why not?[edit]

Listings have them, right? I wanted to put the wp symbol behing Nuremberg Airport in our article on Nuremberg but I don't want to convert it to a listing Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:18, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Can't you just leave out the "*" in front and use any of the templates that support WP (like Template:go) like an inline element? Ceever (talk) 21:55, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Well yes, but some others have argued against using the listing template in lieu of the marker template... Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:05, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Right. But shouldn't an airport be a proper listing anyhow? One for Nuremberg airport and at least one more list item for Munich or so, under "By plane".
A marker is just a marker for a certain reason – it is just not destined to carry comprehensive information like "content" and WP entries. Everything else seems to legitly demand a proper and regular listing.
I use marker mostly for go, around, city and quick sees. Here I would go for a regular "listing".
What do you think? Ceever (talk) 22:59, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Railway station listing in Romanshorn article[edit]

Hi,

I saw you changed the marker for the railway station in the Romanshorn article to listing. I assume you did this, because it's impossible to add a wikipedia or wikidata reference to a marker. However, this messed the layout up a bit, as the listing automatically adds a period behind the title of the listing.

So we have basically two options here: either we make it into a proper listing or we revert it to a marker. I am personally for the latter, as I feel transforming it into a listing will break the text flow, but if you have an idea of how to formulate it such that it will still look okay, then I'm fine with a listing as well.

The main reason I'm asking you about this, is because this "The railway station is located ...." with the marker in the middle of the sentence is kind of a standard structure I've been using in most of the Swiss articles I've added train information to, so this problem will also affect all those articles. What do you think? Drat70 (talk) 14:06, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

I think overall we should use the listing template for railway stations. Maybe there could be an exception for them being really only a small stop on a single line, but even then, there are some benefits to using the listing template instead. Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:28, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
What are those benefits? Contact details? Nowadays all the contact goes over a centralised call centre. Unless I'm missing out something here, I don't think those benefits outweigh the loss of text flow they create. Drat70 (talk) 10:11, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
I think it makes more sense to have a listing instead of a paragraph of text. Listings can accommodate stuff like Wikidata integration or a WP link. Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:33, 14 October 2017 (UTC)