Talk:Fátima

Related

It's a good idea to have other european pilgrimage sites listed as related. {{related|Santiago de Compostela}} should be added to the article once Santiago de Compostela is created --(WT-en) NJR_ZA 05:59, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

I agree with you. Anjo-sozinho (talk) 15:18, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

That would be a good idea, but the {{related}} template doesn't work in Wikivoyage like in Wikipedia. Thanks for the thought anyway. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:58, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

As far as I can see, the template {{related}} also works here on WikiVoyage and even allows you to preview a small photo of the suggested location. It's sad to suppress this template. Anjo-sozinho (talk) 17:59, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

• On my screen it doesn't work. Nothing ever appears out of this code. That's why I've been reverting it. Ibaman (talk) 18:19, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

I can't see it either. Where does it appear? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:39, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Appears on all desktop versions (not mobile, I believe) at the bottom of the page. It includes a preview of the main photograph of the article and a descriptive with the name of the city and its location (from the WikiData). Anjo-sozinho (talk) 12:09, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

• It does not and has never appeared on my screen, either on desktop or mobile. I edit very much more on desktop mode than on mobile; this code does NOT function, it must be mentioned. Ibaman (talk) 12:28, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Actually, that description has jogged my memory. I have seen something like that a few times recently, but I can't remember which articles. Please don't SHOUT just because someone has different information to you. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:06, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

See this and scroll to the bottom of any article listed, for example: African National Parks. I can see 'Africa' and 'African flora and fauna' are both linked as 'related pages' (I'm currently on desktop). So the template does exist and it can work on Wikivoyage. However, is there a bug which prevents it from working on some pages? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:15, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

It works on desktop mode, yes. I really don't understand the attitude of certain WV users. Anjo-sozinho (talk) 13:19, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

It depends on what you're using to view the articles. On my Macbook Air laptop, related articles show up at the very bottom of the page (though they may take 2-3 seconds to load), for instance see: Working_abroad#Expat_life. This works both in the desktop and mobile mode and both in Safari and Firefox. On the other hand, my old Android tablet shows them neither in mobile nor desktop mode. ϒpsilon (talk) 13:25, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

There is also a slight delay (less than a second TBH) for me. I'm on a 5 year old Windows laptop using Chrome. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:36, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

• On my Windows/Chrome setup it never appears. On mobile neither. Never ever, even with several seconds of delay-checking procedures. Sorry for sounding unpleasant; sometimes I get overzealous about formatting and copyedit issues over our pages. Ibaman (talk) 13:43, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

There does seem to be an underlying fault somewhere in the Wiki software where every so often individual computers display things differently to everyone else. My trouble with the banner on London seems to be a unique case. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:27, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Guided tours

As far as I can tell, according to WV:Tour we should not be listing Fatima Guided Tours. @Anjo-sozinho: Have you read this policy? If you have, why do you think Fatima Guided Tours should be listed? What value does it give that travellers couldn't otherwise achieve by themselves? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:02, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Dear @ThunderingTyphoons!: the cited service is an important alternative to the tourist office of the city that does nothing special, nor provides any services to visitors. I had put it under the name "Guided Tours" but, as I know, the name of the service office is "Fatima Tourism". I believe it is important to remain listed because it is, like the listed hotels and restaurants, one of the most useful services for all travelers entering the city of Fatima, Portugal. Anjo-sozinho (talk) 15:17, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Okay, but have you read the policy I linked to you? If travellers can take the tour of the town without a guide, then generally it is against policy to list guided tours. Could you possibly explain why it is useful to travellers? Why do we need to list it?

Happy new year, --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:55, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Dear @ThunderingTyphoons!: I have read what you have sent me, but I will explain: although it is usually called "Fatima" to the place where the famous Marian shrine of international fame is located, the fact is that it is located in the hamlet of "Cova da Iria" , which is miles from Fatima, as well as from the village of Aljustrel and the place of Valinhos. It is common that most travelers who visit Fátima do not even leave Cova da Iria and have difficulty in locating the other places, touristic or not, of the city. In fact, Fatima was elevated as city by means of a special decree, not because it had no size or population to justify it. This service "Fatima Tourism" and also called "Pilgrims of Fatima Support Service" was created as a promoter of the city without any lucrative purpose. The costs that may exist, for all I know, are merely symbolic to ensure the maintenance of the service. We should keep this service listed, because it is entirely different from the others to give the necessary support to travelers on the city. Anjo-sozinho (talk) 17:54, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

I understand and see what you mean. Thanks for taking the time to explain :-) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:39, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

I don't understand. Cost is not an issue in Wikivoyage:Tour. Even "free" tours cannot be listed unless they "add value", as defined on that page. Anjo-sozinho, if we provide information about where the places pilgrims/tourists might want to visit are, why would it be so hard for them to visit them? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:43, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

I explained the reasons above. If that were the case, then it would not be also necessary to list hotels or restaurants: travelers, when they arrived in each city, all they needed was to open their eyes and find everything they needed... Let's be reasonable. This is the service that offers maps and free guides to travelers move around in the city, which, unlike many others, is made up of several places and villages (it's the whole that makes up the city, not a city of ordinary format). Anjo-sozinho (talk) 00:57, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

If you did explain it this clearly, I sure didn't see such an explanation. Just checking, though: By free guides, do you mean guidebooks, people who guide or both? Thanks. Also, are you welcome to show up, pick up free materials and then take your own trips without a guide? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:52, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

According to I know the materials are all offered free (maps, prayer cards, etc.). As for the personalized guided tours, if requested, I believe they have a symbolic cost only for the maintenance of the service. As I hear, this service has no connection with tourist agencies or anything like that. It is just an important alternative to the "Tourism Office" (official) that practically nothing does and is only (in Fatima) an office / dependency of the Tourist Office of the Central region of Portugal. Anjo-sozinho (talk) 12:06, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

If those materials are an offer for free, regardless of whether a person chooses to take a guided tour or not, it's important to state that clearly in the listing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:18, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

I putted in the "service" description that information. Anjo-sozinho (talk) 13:18, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for doing that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:43, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Acute accent on "Fátima"

• I happen to be a native-born speaker of Portuguese, and I cannot DREAM of writing this city's name without the acute accent. This edit was a borderline vandalism. There is no linguistic or philosophical or any reasonable motive behind such an act. This edit could not and will not stand. IK, you did right, and I would do the same and block the vandal. Ibaman (talk) 21:12, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Anjo-sozinho has a long, constructive track record on this site, so I didn't give any thought to the idea of blocking Anjo-sozinho. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:16, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Woah, rein your indignance in, Ibaman. User:Anjo-sozinho - a Portuguese national and apparent resident of Fátima - has been very active in creating new content for this article, and has shown plenty of willingness to discuss changes on this very page - which you've been a part of, by the way. You therefore do the user a great injustice to call him/her a vandal. I very much hope you were joking about "block(ing) the vandal", because if that was a serious comment, I would seriously question your judgement in these matters going forward.

However, I do agree with Ikan's reversion, unless Anjo has any argument to offer? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:28, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

• *I apologize for my moment of anger. A late grandmother of mine was named Maria de Fátima, after this sanctuary. It's silly of my part to feel personally offended, of course, obviously. Sorry about that. Ibaman (talk) 22:12, 1 February 2019 (UTC)