Talk:Hakka phrasebook
Add topicLatest comment: 5 years ago by Ikan Kekek in topic Vowels
Vowels
[edit]Do these work for speakers of American English? I don't know Hakka, but I'm feeling doubtful. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:56, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
- No, based on the IPA the words look like they were chosen for speakers of British English. I've cleaned up the list somewhat, but there are still a few items that look suspicious: "a in pat", "u in put", and "retroflex i". I know a few words of Hakka but not enough to tell how those sounds should be described.
- It's worth noting that Hakka pronunciation varies regionally (in fact, some speakers pronounce it more like "Kakka" than "Hakka"), so an example that works for one dialect might not work for another. Some of the remaining strange-looking examples might be a result of this. —Granger (talk · contribs) 00:45, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
- What about "rimes"? You're saying those mean rungs on a ladder? What percentage of native speakers know that usage? Can't we use some more readily understandable term? Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:50, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
- Maybe the link didn't work - the "rime" here is the second part of the syllable, including the nucleus (usually the vowel or vowels) and whatever comes after it (Wiktionary says "The second part of a syllable, from the vowel on, as opposed to the onset."). It's an important concept in Chinese linguistics, but admittedly one that most English-speaking non-linguists aren't familiar with. I've also seen them called "finals"—would that be clearer? —Granger (talk · contribs) 00:56, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
- How about "final syllables"? That would be completely clear. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:08, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
- Wait, it's only part of the syllable. There is no single word or expression that would be immediately understood by most English-speakers. I think the term is OK only if an explanation of what it refers to is given in an introduction to that section. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:11, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
- How does this look? After some reflection I think "final" is both a more common and a more understandable term than "rime". —Granger (talk · contribs) 14:21, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
- Completely clear and concise. Thank you! Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:15, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
- How does this look? After some reflection I think "final" is both a more common and a more understandable term than "rime". —Granger (talk · contribs) 14:21, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
- Wait, it's only part of the syllable. There is no single word or expression that would be immediately understood by most English-speakers. I think the term is OK only if an explanation of what it refers to is given in an introduction to that section. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:11, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
- How about "final syllables"? That would be completely clear. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:08, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
- Maybe the link didn't work - the "rime" here is the second part of the syllable, including the nucleus (usually the vowel or vowels) and whatever comes after it (Wiktionary says "The second part of a syllable, from the vowel on, as opposed to the onset."). It's an important concept in Chinese linguistics, but admittedly one that most English-speaking non-linguists aren't familiar with. I've also seen them called "finals"—would that be clearer? —Granger (talk · contribs) 00:56, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
- What about "rimes"? You're saying those mean rungs on a ladder? What percentage of native speakers know that usage? Can't we use some more readily understandable term? Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:50, 5 September 2019 (UTC)