Talk:Kurdish phrasebook

Synonyms

I think the long lists of different ways of saying something are problematic: it is not easy for a reader to memorize them all or find the most suitable for a certain situation. Rather, we should find a phrase or a few that are as general as possible: understood in most the Kurmanji area, not too cumbersome, and not likely to cause offence. One formal and one informal, or one for western and one for eastern dialects should be enough except for rare exceptions – unless there really is not one or two that fit the bill. –LPfi (talk) 17:23, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Recent edits

@YLQOS: Thanks for showing this phrasebook some attention in recent days. It's always great to see someone obviously highly knowledgeable about a language tackling its phrasebook.

I do question the merit of adding multiple variations of different phrases, however, especially forms you've marked as archaic. Remember this is a phrasebook likely to be used by visitors who speak very little Kurdish, who just need to find a sentence or word quickly and make themselves understood. They don't need to know every possible way of conveying a certain idea, they just need to know the best way to communicate. Is there a way of cutting down on all the variations without sacrificing a traveller's ability to be understood anywhere in Kurdistan? ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:44, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

The lines marked "archaic" should all be deleted, because this is supposed to help people speak modern Kurdish, not read ancient Kurdish or something. However, if the western and eastern dialects are sufficiently different, it might be advisable to split this into two phrasebooks, except if there's a form of the language that pretty much all Kurds understand. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:52, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Indeed. If there are lots of differences, and the two dialects aren't mutually intelligible, then it would be better to split them. But I hope user:YLQOS is able to enlighten us on whether this is the case. But I do think that mutual intelligibility is an important benchmark for whether to split or whether just to pick a dialect - or "standardised version" - and run with it on one phrasebook.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:42, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

In a similar vein, all the interlocking brackets are confusing: what am I supposed to read from "((Ez) baş im,) (hûn) sax bin."? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:11, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

@YLQOS: I really think that having multiple options for each phrase is confusing, especially when some of them have options within options (as in the sentence above). This is a phrasebook; people should be able to use it to quickly find a word or set phrase they can use in conversation during travel. If it's not possible to whittle down these phrases without losing something vital, then perhaps the phrasebook needs to be split into two (or more), for different dialects, as in Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese. Thanks for addressing some of these comments in edits and edit summaries, but it would be great if you could also join in the conversation here, on this talk page.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:30, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Word for sorry

Another word for "I'm sorry" is "Bibore"

Actually there is lot of expression can be used depends on formal and way of phrase composing itself, for example:

- bor ([verb]) borîn ([verb]), and other forms like (lê-bor, lê-borîn, ra-bor, ra-borîn), this verb can used more closely (to excuse) and lessly (to sorry), it's more asking for forgiveness.

- ber-kev (infinitive form), which latterly means (ber: for, pro-) and (kev: to fall), can be used in some phrase like (ez ber te dikevim = I'm sorry for you), while translation is (I'm falling for you), (ber xwe dikeve = falls sorry to himself, has a shame).

- sûc (infinitive for), which latterly means (sûc: fault, wrong), can be used in some conversation like (sûçê min e, lêborîn ! = it's my wrong, sorry !), where usually with other suffix as (-deh: to done, to give) and together (sûc-dar: wronger, faulter), or with (-bar: to bear, to hold, to carry) and can be used as (sûçbar im = I bear fault). Those expressions with (sûc: fault, wrong) are to sign previously the wrong side even before go to ask for sorry.

- bexşîn (transitive verb) it's more close (to excuse), verb synonym to (borîn, lê-borîn).

- mixa (be/bin), tixa (be/bin), tiya (be/bin) ... It's the word (sorry) in exclamation way, for example: (mexa be ! te çi got ? = sorry ! what you said ?)

- and some others expression can carry meaning of (sorry) too, as (dil pê şewtî = heart burned after), (ceger/kezeb pê helî = liver dissolved after)

so it's more various and different and depends in which region, accent, and even phrases and expressions to certain and avoid others. And the more standard word here, are (borîn) and (lê-borîn) and can be understandable by most of people and pass par-tout even in wrong pharse !

Rênas Îbranûm Dêyako (talk) 02:28, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Rênas Îbranûm Dêyako. It's customary on all Wikis, to my knowledge, to start new threads at the bottom of the page. If you have something to add to or change in the phrasebook, please do so. Posting information here is not going to help many people. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:35, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

But see also #Synonyms above: we should try to find words that the traveller him-/herself can use without it being misunderstood. Just one, two or three words for different contexts or regions, clearly explained when each can be used. If we can find one word that fits everywhere, that would be ideal. If there is another word that is common and understanding it would be crucial, we can add that, but the phrasebook is not for allowing travellers to convey nuances. In English, you could have sorry, excuse me and pardon, but sorry more or less works everywhere where saying something like that is important, so learning sorry would be enough and that would be what to put in the phrasebook. In some languages you cannot get by with just one word, and then we have to list more than that, but it is not ideal. The explanation here is interesting, but the phrasebook needs to be simple. –LPfi (talk) 09:08, 2 February 2022 (UTC)