User talk:

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Hello,! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Project:Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub.

By the way, have you considered creating an account here? While you can absolutely keep contributing as an anonymous user, it promises a bunch of benefits, and no obligations. --Saqib (talk) 14:40, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the friendly welcome, Saqib.
Since I'm a County Kerry man staying in "enemy territory" in Belfast, I think I'd prefer to remain anonymous. You seem to be both better (and different in some ways that are not helpful to the traveller) from Wikitravel - where I've edited sporadically for many years. -- 14:52, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
I'd be interested to know what you mean by "different in some ways that are not helpful to the traveller". Texugo (talk) 15:00, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
2 examples.
  1. You either use non-standard symbols (I think it's meant to be a little globe - but it's difficult to read on a small screen) for hyperlinks or have been generating footnote style numbers that, however hard one searches, one can not find the footnote the number relates too. Not reader friendly and makes your guides look like they are still in Beta!
  2. You very often hard-code picture sizes. This means they are either too big on a small screen or too small on a big screen. Best to do things like other Wikimedia projects do this, eh? -- 15:08, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
  • The first point is being resolved as we speak, as you seem to have noticed, to have frontlinked external links with the standard blue arrow. (I believe WT still uses the pointless reference-less numbering system.)
  • The second point is also not different from WT, as they still have all the hard-coded image sizes we left them, but unlike WT, the community here has been actively discussing ways to address this (WT has not had any discussion on their image policy page since 2011).
And forgive my not saying so before, but welcome to Wikivoyage!
Texugo (talk) 15:40, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the welcome, Texugo. This place certainly seems to have some quality editors registered. What a pity that Wikivoyage is almost invisible in the search engine results so all their work is going unread!
I actually changed the text to what has been the standard on Wikitravel for some months - however, some luddite seems to have reverted my substantive changes. It seems he doesn't put the needs of the traveller first and his reversion seems like foot-dragging if all that is being still argued about is whether external hyperlinks should be the almost universally used blue colour or not. That can always be changed later in the universal CSS!
As for your second point, I'm fed up with having to solve a captcha (sometimes several times) on Wikitravel - but some of their policies are stated much more clearly and sensibly. -- 18:47, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
If so, that's only due to the efforts of one particular editor, whose preferences on the matter are what cause you to be mistaken for her. LtPowers (talk) 14:31, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
I don't know why you're changing our policies to match the "Wikitravel standard". We decide our policies on consensus, and by checking the external links talk page, it seems one was still being established when you made the unilateral change. James Atalk 14:39, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
It's actually the universal, World Wide Web standard and I'm glad to see that I was just a little ahead of the curve. --Ip90-215-245-164 (talk) 12:59, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Weird comment[edit]

Pretty certain this is Alice at an Ethiopian internet cafe. My take is that the discussion may have reached consensus, but I am still confirming that with a few users who were unsure. Either way, the necessary coding changes have not been made, so the external links should not be changed either at the current time... James Atalk 14:50, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

James, this is a UK based IP address. --Saqib (talk) 14:57, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
(Belfast, actually. This tool is useful forgetting information about IP addresses:
Without getting into politics - you're very welcome to pop round for a cuppa, JamesA. -- 15:02, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
We've got the World Fire and Police games on in Belfast right now - so this would be a great time to visit and the invitation still stands. --Ip90-215-245-164 (talk) 13:01, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

The clock[edit]

The Serbian clock looks like 8 something, but the Metadata says 17:38. I haven't been to Serbia myself but I'd say that the clock tower has been designed with a longer hand for the minutes for some weird purpose and that it really does show 17:38. I've seen a similar clock somewhere in Poland. Ypsilon (talk) 20:42, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

In this article, I assume the only purposes of the images is to fill the right hand margin and avoid the pages looking too "bleak". If that assumption is correct, then the convention in most of the world is for the smaller hand to indicate the hours and the longer hand the minutes. The photographer may have come from a different time zone and not bothered to update the camera's internal clock. -- 20:51, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
This clock's different, longer hand shows hours. You can see other photos and their metadata [1], they are consistent. Jjtkk (talk) 21:03, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
Yes, Tony1. The purpose of the images is simply to give the article a little more life. But you can be happy that I used the 24 hour format in the descriptions when adding a few more clock pictures. Hopefully I made your day, Tony1. Ypsilon (talk) 04:44, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Biting newcomers[edit]

Strangely, User:Ypsilon alleges here that I am User:Tony1, previously User:JamesA alleged here that I am in fact User:Alice in Ethiopia, User:Peterfitzgerald seems to allege in his edit summary here that I am in fact User:Frank - who, as far as I can tell, does not even exist!

We have a saying in Ireland that "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me" but (Saqib and Texugo excepted) this is hardly the welcoming environment that I expected.

Presumably on the basis that I am really this banned editor, Frank, User:Peterfitzgerald then embarks on a mass abuse of the revert facility which is hardly conducive to our primary goal of creating a free, complete, up-to-date and reliable world-wide travel guide when he re-introduces spelling mistakes, removes the mandated international format of telephone numbers and other breaches of our Mos with reversions such as this:

This all makes me think some of you are not serious about our stated primary goal but instead see this as some sort of exclusive gentleman's club where new ideas and newcomers are unwelcome. -- 11:02, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Claiming that you are me is a grand insult to you. I'm sorry this has happened. Hey, why not choose a username and log in? It would be good to put a name to your text. :-) Tony (talk) 14:16, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
I'd prefer for editors to assess my contributions -whether travel writing or contributions to policy and policy discussions on their own merits rather than who they think I am (or am not). As far as I am aware, this is a static IP here in Belfast (and you are in Australia?) so I don't see any real problems as to attribution.
Looking at this page, I think it's rather a compliment to be mistaken for you. However, I do see that although you seem to have been unfairly branded as an annoying and persistent pedant here, your views on hyperlinking are more nuanced than mine. I think that it is important to the proper functioning of the world wide web (signals to search engines and first time readers, etc) that so-called "front-linking" is used (so as to provide appropriate anchor text to engines and visual clues to readers) while you seem to be peculiarly concerned about both overlinking and anchor text being obtrusive and difficult to read - in fact you offer a CSS solution to this perceived problem.
Do you know who this User:Frank is (or was) and why me being thought to be he should promote a reversion orgy in User:Peterfitzgerald ? -- 17:52, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
My apologies for the mix up! I assumed it was that particular user, because she had been particularly (and passionately) involved in the discussion for some weeks and had been very eager to see a policy change. She is also overseas at the moment and has been making various edits from random IP addresses. I have no idea how to tell the difference between IP locations, but please accept my apologies again. James Atalk 14:28, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
As far as I can tell User:Alice seems to be in Ethiopia, as you already intimated - what makes you say "random IP addresses"? If you don't have checkuser status you can not normally see where a logged in editor is editing from. If you check the contributions record of an anon like myself you can see a list of options at the bottom that looks a bit like this:
Tor check • Google • rDNS • WHOIS • Geolocate(Alternate) • Cross wiki contributions and blocks • Global blocks • Traceroute
"to tell the difference between IP locations" you can try clicking on the "WHOIS" or "Geolocate(Alternate)" options, JamesA. I accept your apology.
Do you know who this User:Frank is (or was) and why me being thought to be he should trigger a reversion orgy from User:Peterfitzgerald ? -- 17:52, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
No problem, James. I'm a little confused, but there are more important things afoot. Cheers. Tony (talk) 14:29, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

This is the discussion page for an anonymous user who has not created an account yet, or who does not use it. We therefore have to use the numerical IP address to identify them. Such an IP address can be shared by several users. If you are an anonymous user and feel that irrelevant comments have been directed at you, please create an account or log in to avoid future confusion with other anonymous users.