User talk:Mar Tranquilidade

Hello, Mar Tranquilidade! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub. New users are also welcome to post any questions or concerns to the arrivals lounge. If you are familiar with Wikipedia, take a look over some of the differences here. If you want to contribute with information about the place where you live, see Wikivoyage:Welcome, locals..

Please also read Welcome, business owners, and Don't tout. It is not acceptable to add your company's logo as an image to any of our articles. Don't do that again.

Let me know if you have any questions. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:53, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

Hi again. I got your email but will reply here as there didn't seem to be anything confidential and these discussions are best had on the wiki.

Firstly, thank you (or obrigado) for being willing to discuss and work with our policies. As the "welcome, business owners" page sets out, we want to work with service providers where possible, for mutual benefit.

It was I who edited the Mar Tranquilidade listing. If there are bars and restaurants within the complex, by all means talk about them in the listing. I won't object to that, and removed "meals and drinks" purely because it was a bit vague.

With regard to the activities, unless they are held within your site and/or are exclusively available to your customers, they belong in the 'Do' section of the article. Your complex is not unique in having access to Santo Antão's attractions, nor to its assets like a beautiful climate; everyone who visits Santo Antão can enjoy those, so we talk about them in the appropriate parts of the article.

You are very welcome to put details of places to see, things to do, tables to eat at in their proper place in the article. As a local who knows the area and who presumably deals with travellers all the time, your knowledge is invaluable to us. Mostly, the headings 'See', 'Do', 'Eat', etc. are self-explanatory, but if you have any doubts about where anything goes, we have a handy list called "Where you can stick it" you can refer to.

Does that answer your questions? Best wishes, James ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:23, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

I feel like there's too much detail in this listing (the honors system for paying for cold drinks isn't anything a visitor needs to know about before they arrive) and also has the wrong tone ("Not to be found on any booking portals!" seems to give away that the listing was written by the owner, manager or whatever), but can you please use the Wikivoyage:Listings template, specifically the "sleep" listing template that you can produce by clicking on the bed icon above your edit screen? Bdi is not an accepted template on this site, and when it's used, it's almost always a case of copying and pasting from another site in violation of its copyright, which I hope you're not doing. Thanks in advance for fixing this. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:54, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

hi ikan, i agree with you about too many details, but as you see above from the last comments, James wrote that he had removed "meals and drinks" purely because it was a bit vague. He also wrote, If there are bars and restaurants within the complex, by all means talk about them in the listing. I won't object to that. but to say "bar" or restaurant" doesn't really fit. I want people to know that they can get meals and drinks at Mar Tranquilidade but if that was too vague I thought I should add more details. I tried to describe it like it is, and now you say it is too much. It is hard to find the right approach, but I mean well and I do want to try. I really do know a lot about Tarrafal de Monte Trigo and about the tourists who come there and their expectations. My skills at this kind of editing are limited, but I am learning (I hope!) I had been editing just using the visual editing. I didn't think there was anything wrong wth that and didn't even know at first about the source editing. I did not know about the templates. I have no idea what bdi means, but see that my "listing" was labeled that way. Yes, I did copy and paste it in the Tarrafal page, but from another page in Wikivoyage, the Santo Antao page. Is that not allowed? I did not think it would be violating any copyrights or anything. I feel the lisiting is appropriate in both places, but don't see any reason to have a different text. I figured out from your description how to create a template, but it is still too confusing for me, so I have changed it now by copying the listing from the source editing rather than visual editing for the Santo Antao page. It seems to me now to appear under source editing for Tarrafal de MT like the correct template format. Could you please check? Another question---I have added some photos, but I would like there to be a banner for the top of the page. I formatted a photo to what I think are the correct dimensions, but have no idea how to put it in the right place. Could you do that? I uploaded two versions, not sure which is better. When I am back in Tarrafal I can try taking pictures with the banner format in mind and hopefully get something better, but for now one of these two seems better to me than none at all. Can you access my photo files? Let me know if there are problems or if I can do anything else. While I am asking, there is one photo in my files that I uploaded years ago that is inappropriate. I did not know that then. I would like to delete it now but do not see how to do it. Could you help me?

You are right of course, the listing was writen by the "owner, manager or whatever". My husband and I are owners but it is not just a business, it is our life. Tarrafal is a tiny, intimate village, we have lived there for more than 20 years, long before there was any other touristic infrastructure, at the beginning there was not even electricity, any phones, or even running water in houses. We feel a part of this village. Our staff are also our neighbors and friends, almost like family. We work literally side by side with them. Our guests are often more like visiting friends than paying customers,and with warm weather all year round and almost never rain, all eating and drinking is done outside. So terms like restaurant and bar seem out of place. Before we started there was only one private house with a few very basic rooms to rent. We watched all the other accommodations, restaurants, snack bars, etc. start up and develop, and with very few exceptions we have very cordial relationships with all the others. In fact we helped many of them quite a bit getting started. The locals were our neighbors, the Europeans who have opened businesses here almost all were guests in our place before even dreaming of starting their own. So yes, I do want to represent my own business in your portal, but I also want the village which is my second home to be well represented, but also accurately represented. I hope others will add to what i put in; although I know a lot about Tarrafal I obviously don't know everything and I may have a different viewpoint than others. That is what I find so good about Wikivoyage, it is created from many viewpoints and therefore is more objective than many regular travel guides. But is there anything wrong with the owner putting in the listing for their own business? Is that not allowed? Who knows better what to put in? This is why I thought I would let our colleagues add lisitngs for their own businesses.(Also because I don't find the time.) But I hope to add more details to the Tarrafal de Monte Trigo page in the time to come. Plenty of old things, but we know of some new things, like the completion of the paving of the road, but due to the Corona pandemic our business has been closed and we have been away from Tarrafal, so I would prefer to add new things after I have seen and experienced them myself, which will be soon. Well this has gotten to be too long---sorry. But I will leave it, read as much as you want. Thanks for any help! Susi --Mar Tranquilidade (talk) 13:13, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Susi. Yes, we welcome business owners, and they absolutely can list their own travel-related businesses such as hotels - please read Welcome, business owners. It's just that like every other user, you should try your best to conform to the style points at Wikivoyage:Don't tout and other parts of the Wikivoyage:Manual of style. Also, please note that don't tout prohibits businesses being listed in more than one place on the site, so list only in the article for the specific destination where you are located. Going back to the honors system, the issue is just that you're going into too much detail. It's fine to say that drinks, food, whatever are available on an honors system. Patrons will get the details when they book or when they arrive. I'd be happy to look at the photos you uploaded. Where can I find them?

Best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:33, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Since you have only one location, which is in Tarrafal de Monte Trigo, that's where you need to have your only listing. Is there anything you'd like to copy from your listing in the Santo Antão article before it's deleted? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:40, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

It seemed to be worded the same way; deleted accordingly. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:20, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

hi again ikan, you are quick ! but why can't we list in both places? tourists seldom choose only tarrafal de monte trigo as ther sole destiation, unless they have been there before, and then they know where thy want to sleep anyway. most tourists first choose santo antao as a destination and only later choose which parts to visit and where to stay. that is why a lisiting on the santo antao page makes sense....maybe more sense than on the tarrafal page. in regular (paper) travel guides--- at least the ones i am currently familiar with, so those for cape verde---- places to sleep are often mentioned more than once in the book, like under lisitings for the whole island, and again in the listings of village they are in, but often again under descriptions of certain hikes, for example when they are the obvious choice for a stay at the end of a days hike, something people might not realize when planning the hike. i know our place is mentioned several times in the most used travel guide to cabo verde, "Reise Know How" (German) and we didn't write it, so it in not touting or anything like that! these place we are talking about like santo antao and tarrafal de MT are just so small and have so few toursts compared to most destinations. if you google it you can compare to places ike the canary islands, an archipeligo of similar size but with umpteen times more tourists. there actually is one hiking guide to just santo antao (i think out of print), but there is not a single travel guide just for santo antao, as a matter of fact i don't believe for any single island, just guides for the whole archipelago of cabo verde. having only one lisiting for our place on the tarrafal de MT page seems sort of like having no listing for a hotel on the page of the city it is in, but only on the listing of the street it is on---i would think that people don't book their hotels based on the street it is on, but look at the choices for the whole town, even if they later find out they would prefer to stay in one section of that town than another. Anyway, if it is certain that we can't list in 2 places we might want to change back to santo antao, but not right now, we want to think about it. But let me know if it might be possible after all to list twice....

Thanks ever so much for putting in the banner, I really like how it looks. ( I assume you did it?) Thanks for your help and sorry for the bother. (if you ever come to santo antao, please visit us, or is that touting?!) susi--Mar Tranquilidade (talk) 12:13, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi. I didn't do anything with any banner. If you read Wikivoyage:Don't tout, you'll see that no business can be listed twice on this site. If you'd like to argue for a change in that policy, please start a thread at Wikivoyage talk:Don't tout. If you think no-one will look at the Tarrafal de Monte Trigo article, maybe it doesn't meet this site's what is an article guidelines and should be merged into Santo Antão? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:20, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

hm-m-m-m maybe my own attempts to add the banner, that seemed to fail finally worked after a few days?--Mar Tranquilidade (talk) 20:50, 25 August 2021 (UTC)