User talk:RaviC

Namaste and Hello, RaviC! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

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Why you think combing Hindi and Urdu phrasebook is a good idea? I'm speaker of Urdu and while at the spoken level both the languages are quite similar but entirely different writing system makes a big difference. I would say lets keep things simple otherwise it will create confusion for the phrasebook users. --Saqib (talk) 11:28, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi there, thanks for your comment. I'm not suggesting combining the two phrasebooks into one, but for someone visiting India, Urdu and Hindi are often spoken in overlapping areas (for example UP and Bihar.) So, it would be handy for them to have a phrasebook that can be used with speakers of either language.

Also, if a person is visiting different parts of India (e.g. Hyderabad and Delhi), it makes sense for them to have both in one, as they are so similar in terms of speech (yes, I know the script is different, but we have a pronunciation in Latin for that).

Kind regards.

--RaviC (talk) 11:33, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Well, Hindi is national language of India and I'm sure everyone who speak Urdu can understand Hindi very well. --Saqib (talk) 11:37, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

It depends on what you constitute Hindi as. The very refined, formal Hindi on the phrasebook is less spoken in some areas. --RaviC (talk) 11:41, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Why don't you prefer to further improve the Hindi or Urdu phrasebook? --Saqib (talk) 12:42, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Honestly, it's not about preference. The Hindi and Urdu phrasebooks use the formal language taught in school. Hindi-Urdu is the language spoken on the street. Take a look at the Wiki article for more info. --RaviC (talk) 12:45, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Ravi, you've again started that phrasebook. That's not useful. Pashley, I need your assistance here. Can you please try to resolve this issue. --Saqib (talk) 22:45, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Since you hadn't replied, I assumed that you've withdrawn your reservations. As it is, I still haven't received a real explanation as to why you are not a fan of the phrasebook, other than the argument that it is "confusing". I'm more than willing to discuss this with another user. --RaviC (talk) 22:57, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

I am not sure what I might say on the question. I'm no expert; I've visited both countries and learned a few useful expressions, but no more. That was years ago, and for all I know some of what I picked up was Punjabi or some other language. User:Ravikiran_r would be a better person to ask, but I do not think he has been active lately.

My understanding of how the two languages relate is in the description on the Hindustani page, most of which I wrote.

I do not think we can have just one phrasebook; dealing with two scripts would be extremely messy. Some very common words are different; I think danyavad vs. sucria or namaste vs. salaam vs. sat sri akal. I may have details wrong. So as I see it, we definitely need separate phrasebooks for Hindi & Urdu.

I actually rather like the idea of a third phrasebook that deals only with the informal spoken language, the stuff a traveller who is not a language student needs to pick up to survive on the subcontinent. If we do that, it should have none of either script, be quite short, and link to existing phrasebooks for anyone who wants more detail. I'm not certain how practical that is, though; in the worst case we might end up covering the same stuff three times in three phrasebooks. Pashley (talk) 23:37, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi there, thanks for your message. I'm glad we are on the same level - this is exactly the vision I had for the phrasebook. To make a start, I had conjugated material from both - but the plan was to make it entirely colloquial and remove the refined vocabulary. The practicality is quite feasible, as most of the words in formal Hindi and Urdu have a colloquial equivalent. (for example, the word for language in formal Hindi is bhasha, in formal Urdu is zaban; whereas in colloquial Hindi-Urdu, the word boli is used more often.) --RaviC (talk) 23:45, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

If changes are made in the phrasebook scheme, we may also need an update at Talk#Regional_languages. Pashley (talk) 23:47, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

I just took a look at the page, and it seems that Hindi and Urdu are already grouped together under the name of Hindustani. --RaviC (talk) 23:49, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Ravi, Personally I'm not too much against a combined Hindi Urdu phrasebooks. I know there're many phrasebooks out there including Lonely Planet who publish combined phrasebook to cover both the language but sorry, there's no precedent of a combined phrasebook on Wikivoyage yet. You're trying to suggest an entirely new format where there will be no script in the phrasebook. You should have community consensus for this first. On the other hand, you said current Urdu and Hindi phrasebooks use the formal language that taught in school, I'm not sure for Hindi but our Urdu phrasebook is written by me and all the phrases and vocabulary that I've used in the Urdu phrasebook are very well understandable by anyone on the streets. I've not used very formal vocabulary, and I don't know why you think its difficult to understand. Furthermore, you using unnecessary pronunciation guide for Urdu in your combined phrasebook. Thats of no use. We're not teaching people, we're just trying to help our readers to learn briefly about a language so that they can able to speak those basic phrases. Thats it! --Saqib (talk) 01:20, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

A somewhat parallel case, I think is Malay phrasebook and Indonesian phrasebook. National languages in adjacent countries, mostly mutually intelligible, Pashley (talk) 23:47, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Correct that they are mostly mutually intelligible - but I also find the combined guide with neither script attractive,we could use it as an experiment/demonstration for using OGG files to demonstrate pronunciation in a new and more useful format... -- Alice^✉ 00:04, 28 May 2014 (UTC)