Talk:Classical Meitei language
Latest comment: 2 years ago by SHB2000 in topic Capitalisation
Why not delete?
[edit]We don't have phrasebooks for Latin, Old Church Slavonic, Coptic or Ancient Greek, because no-one speaks them as native languages. Is there a good reason not to delete this phrasebook? Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:17, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- Ikan Kekek Sanskrit phrasebook exist. --Haoreima (talk) 04:23, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- The reason it was kept is that over 30,000 people speak Sanskrit as their native language. This phrasebook is of no use if it concentrates on practical spoken phrases. If anything, it could be a travel topic that focuses on ritual language people might want to understand in order to follow ceremonies. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:35, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- See Talk:Sanskrit phrasebook#VfD nom: "There are 2,360,821 total speakers of Sanskrit in India, as of 2011." I will nominate this phrasebook for deletion tomorrow if you don't agree to move it to your userspace. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:45, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- The reason it was kept is that over 30,000 people speak Sanskrit as their native language. This phrasebook is of no use if it concentrates on practical spoken phrases. If anything, it could be a travel topic that focuses on ritual language people might want to understand in order to follow ceremonies. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:35, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- Yes, it could be a travel topic that focuses on ritual language people might want to understand in order to follow ceremonies. Exactly like Sanskrit, many ritual hymns and prayers are written in Classical Meitei, which people might need to read and recite. Please change it. I will help you in developing it. Haoreima (talk) 10:02, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- Maybe something along the lines of Australian slang? (which currently is the only linguistic related travel topic we have). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:18, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- SHB2000 Thank you for the suggestion. Yes, it suits better. :-) --Haoreima (talk) 12:57, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- I'm glad we're in agreement now, and sorry if I seemed like a dick upthread. Haoreima, we need for you to take the lead in redesigning this as a travel topic focused on sacred and ritual language travellers might come across. You will be a pioneer; there is no equivalent to the type of article you will be writing, and I doubt anyone else reading this thread or editing this site knows this language. I think the crucial points would be to remember to focus on words, phrases and sentences a traveller would be likely to see or hear and to use some kind of clear organization, whether that is by type of ceremony, topic, grammatical part of speech or any other parameters that make sense to you. Also, keep it on a fairly simple level: to give an analogy I can relate to, were we to have a topic on Classical Arabic, we wouldn't expect our readers to be able to read the entire Qur'an after reading it, but they'd be likely to recognize a number of important and oft-repeated phrases such as "Bismillah ar-rahman ir-rahim" ("Blessed be Allah the compassionate and the merciful") and "La illaha illallah, Muhammad ar-rasulullah" ("There is no God but Allah and Muhummad is his messenger"). I'd suggest including information about online and/or offline sources for people who'd like to learn how to achieve a higher level of knowledge and proficiency in Classical Meitei at the end of the article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:07, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- Ikan Kekek For that, let's prepare a new template like Wikivoyage:Phrasebook article template. We need a skeleton of the page. First of all, I will create it in my user space & after the discussion with you & User:SHB2000 about the finalization, we can move it to the main space. --Haoreima (talk) 16:07, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- Do you think a universal template for travel topic phrasebooks of sacred languages that are not usually used for conversation would be useful? I'm not sure standardization will work best. But by all means give it a try! Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:18, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- Just my 2c on sacred languages topics.
- Some sections like colours, transport, lodging, money, driving or shopping can just be deleted. I really don't think I'll be needing to know what is red or any other colour in a sacred language, and vehicle-related terms probably wouldn't exist in these languages.
- Contextual references are key – it's no point really knowing what theertham is (which if I can remember to my visits to some temples in Kerala, it was a milk/water-like drink that the priest gives to you), if you don't exactly know what it is and when it's used or given.
- Not sure whether a grammar section is needed, but I think that can just be deleted.
- After this is reorganised, the Māori phrasebook, may also have to be reorganised, which isn't a sacred language, but a language that a traveller won't be using to communicate in NZ. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:50, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- SHB2000 Sure, bro! Yesterday & Today, I am in a happy mood. Want to know why? I got free in English Wikipedia. :-) --Haoreima (talk) 10:05, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- Nice that you've been finally unblocked :-). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:09, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- SHB2000 Sure, bro! Yesterday & Today, I am in a happy mood. Want to know why? I got free in English Wikipedia. :-) --Haoreima (talk) 10:05, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- Just my 2c on sacred languages topics.
- Do you think a universal template for travel topic phrasebooks of sacred languages that are not usually used for conversation would be useful? I'm not sure standardization will work best. But by all means give it a try! Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:18, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- Ikan Kekek For that, let's prepare a new template like Wikivoyage:Phrasebook article template. We need a skeleton of the page. First of all, I will create it in my user space & after the discussion with you & User:SHB2000 about the finalization, we can move it to the main space. --Haoreima (talk) 16:07, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- I'm glad we're in agreement now, and sorry if I seemed like a dick upthread. Haoreima, we need for you to take the lead in redesigning this as a travel topic focused on sacred and ritual language travellers might come across. You will be a pioneer; there is no equivalent to the type of article you will be writing, and I doubt anyone else reading this thread or editing this site knows this language. I think the crucial points would be to remember to focus on words, phrases and sentences a traveller would be likely to see or hear and to use some kind of clear organization, whether that is by type of ceremony, topic, grammatical part of speech or any other parameters that make sense to you. Also, keep it on a fairly simple level: to give an analogy I can relate to, were we to have a topic on Classical Arabic, we wouldn't expect our readers to be able to read the entire Qur'an after reading it, but they'd be likely to recognize a number of important and oft-repeated phrases such as "Bismillah ar-rahman ir-rahim" ("Blessed be Allah the compassionate and the merciful") and "La illaha illallah, Muhammad ar-rasulullah" ("There is no God but Allah and Muhummad is his messenger"). I'd suggest including information about online and/or offline sources for people who'd like to learn how to achieve a higher level of knowledge and proficiency in Classical Meitei at the end of the article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:07, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- SHB2000 Thank you for the suggestion. Yes, it suits better. :-) --Haoreima (talk) 12:57, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- Maybe something along the lines of Australian slang? (which currently is the only linguistic related travel topic we have). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:18, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- Yes, it could be a travel topic that focuses on ritual language people might want to understand in order to follow ceremonies. Exactly like Sanskrit, many ritual hymns and prayers are written in Classical Meitei, which people might need to read and recite. Please change it. I will help you in developing it. Haoreima (talk) 10:02, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
Name
[edit]Shouldn't this be called Classical Manipuri phrasebook to be in line with Manipuri phrasebook? I don't know which name is more common in English though. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:30, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- Hello SHB2000! The name "Meitei" is the original name. "Manipuri" is the official name of Meitei inside India. Outside India, Meitei & Manipuri are used frequently and interchangeably. Some British scholars even call "Meithei" instead of "Meitei". You can change the name as per your wish into "Manipuri" also. But there's currently a discussion about if it should stay or not. Haoreima (talk) 10:06, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- Makes sense. If so, I guess the name can stay as it is. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:19, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
Capitalisation
[edit]Shouldn't this be named Classical Meitei language per our guideline to use sentence case? --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:07, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- Definitely. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:43, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- SHB2000 Yes. Actually, when I tried to move the article name into "Classical Meitei language". Unfortunately, it already existed as a redirect (that's also created by myself unaware of the future plans, lol). So, I couldn't move to the desired name. And thanks you notice the sentence case. Please move it. :) --Haoreima (talk) 05:45, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
Done. It seems that I had to delete the redirect to move the page. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:47, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- SHB2000 Thanks for doing that! On another note, I saw one similarity between English Wikivoyage & Simple English wikipedia. That's whenever a redirect (for example, a redirect I created) is deleted, it's counted in the number of deleted articles (created by me) and appears in the deleted article list in the wikiscan. But this is not so in case of Regular English wikipedia. A few of the redirects I created in en wiki were deleted (mostly applying QD-G7, self approach for deletion) but none is counted in the deleted article list. --Haoreima (talk) 05:54, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- I think it might be how the wiki localises their xtools/wikiscan settings, but I'm not exactly sure how it works. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:55, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- SHB2000 Thanks for doing that! On another note, I saw one similarity between English Wikivoyage & Simple English wikipedia. That's whenever a redirect (for example, a redirect I created) is deleted, it's counted in the number of deleted articles (created by me) and appears in the deleted article list in the wikiscan. But this is not so in case of Regular English wikipedia. A few of the redirects I created in en wiki were deleted (mostly applying QD-G7, self approach for deletion) but none is counted in the deleted article list. --Haoreima (talk) 05:54, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- SHB2000 Yes. Actually, when I tried to move the article name into "Classical Meitei language". Unfortunately, it already existed as a redirect (that's also created by myself unaware of the future plans, lol). So, I couldn't move to the desired name. And thanks you notice the sentence case. Please move it. :) --Haoreima (talk) 05:45, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
