Talk:Ottoman Empire

Christian-centric?

Is the "Understand" section not more focused on Christian European reactions to the Ottoman Empire than what the Ottomans actually did, which was quite impressive? I tried to redress the imbalance a bit, but I'm still pretty uncomfortable with what reads to me like a kind of ethnocentrism. I think I'll work on it a little more. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:43, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Armenian Genocide

The standard of Wikivoyage is be fair. Being fair means that on matters of history, we do not respect the position of denialists. The Armenian genocide is disputed only for political reasons by the government of Turkey and some people who've decided to go along with it, not on any bases of fact. Read w:Armenian Genocide for some basic background, but I'd like to make two points: (1) The Armenian Genocide has to be mentioned in this article because it was a cataclysmic event whose effects redound to this day, and it casts a pall on the reputation of the Ottoman Empire; (2) We will not debate the factualness of this genocide on Wikivoyage. If you want to debate about that, w:Talk:Armenian Genocide is the place to do that, though if your arguments aren't fact-based, you'll probably have a lot of trouble there.

I hope this clears the air sufficiently. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:28, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Suleiman's tomb

Hungary: Unearthing Suleiman the Magnificent's tomb

Something might be added here, but I am not certain what or when. Pashley (talk) 18:18, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

I mentioned this in the listing for Pécs, under "Destinations: Europe". Vidimian (talk) 23:25, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Remaining tasks

This article is looking way better, thanks to efforts by User:Vidimian and others.

Right now, it looks to me like it needs an "Eat" section focusing on Ottoman cuisine, its persistence in Turkey and its effect on the other countries the empire formerly ruled; Ottoman music (in "Do") and its connection with Arab music and music of the Balkans and Greece; and more well-chosen photos (right now, there's room for a couple, but perhaps 3 after more text is added). Ottoman visual art should also be addressed, probably in "See", with specifics about where best to view it and preferably a good photo.

I'd love to see this eventually be a Featured Travel Topic. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:43, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

The sections below "Destinations" need to be expanded, the Roman Empire article can serve as a good example. Also, as of now there is just text and no photos below the map. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:53, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments. I have added stuff about traditional arts, music, cuisine, drinks and language, and I think I'm done, at least for the time being. These sections may read a little untidy for now since I had to read up on much of the details I didn't know about previously, so I'd appreciate any efforts of proofreading and making the text read tighter. Vidimian (talk) 23:25, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Very good job! This article looks Usable to me now. Do you guys agree? On music: I understand that Arab maqamat are essentially Arab-Turkish music and that that music and its theory constitute the core of Ottoman classical music. That's what I was taught, anyway, but I wouldn't know how to address that in sufficiently clear and travel-related way. Where are some good venues to hear this kind of music? Are there cities that are particularly well known for it? Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:27, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. I think, yes, Arab maqamat form the core of the Ottoman classical music. I guess you are much better in musical terms than I am (an amateur progressive/experimental/folk rock listener here), so I guess your trying your hand at expanding the music section would result better than mine, but of course it's up to you to do so or not. If a traveller would come around asking me for a comment on listening to the classical Ottoman music, I would either recommend tuning in the dedicated shows of the state television or going to a reputable meyhane in Istanbul but I cannot name one out of hand. I know the annual Izmir fair also hosted popular classical Turkish musicians in the past, but I don't know the current situation. Let me see what I can add about these.

Let's get this article up to guide — that was the initial intention. Where do I see the rating criteria for these historical articles? Vidimian (talk) 00:52, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Wikivoyage:Travel topic status, though it's fairly general. I do have a good deal of musical knowledge, as a professional musician and former long-time professor of music, but the trick is how to avoid overly encyclopedic treatment (for example, I wouldn't want to go about explaining what half-sharps and half-flats are or going into other aspects of Turko-Arabic music theory) but be clear and travel-related. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:28, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

It really is fairly general. And Wikivoyage:Travel topic article template doesn't even provide the "compulsory" headers so we cannot even know whether we currently have them. But I believe we have "at least a good overview of the topic, and some useful material under each outline heading", which makes this a usable article. Any other opinions on this?

I guess I'll add some more on the classical music, sometime later. Vidimian (talk) 02:36, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

I think the reason it doesn't add compulsory headers is that travel topics are so variable in content that it doesn't make sense to use a pre-set format. I'll go ahead and promote this article to Usable. Anyone who disagrees can explain why and change it back. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:57, 14 September 2016 (UTC)