Talk:Taizé Community

Name and scope

The village – no sign of the community here, is it behind the hill?

Why is this an article about the Taizé Community, rather than the village of Taizé, including the community, as would usually be the case? Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:19, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek: The entry at Wikivoyage:Requested articles requested an article about Taizé Community rather than the village. The population of the village of Taizé is 190 of whom over 100 are brothers at the monastry. I am open to debate about the title, but note that I have written the section "Get in" from the point of view of somebody organising a group trip from outside France rather than from the point of view of the DIY traveller. Martinvl (talk) 21:57, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Understood. But even in this small a village, what would be useful to list that's outside of the community? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:22, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

I don't think there are any sights that would draw visitors not here for the community. It is basically a small village in the middle of the French countryside. On the other hand, I don't know the village. The church, Église Sainte-Marie-Madeleine de Taizé seems to be old (sv-wp claims early 11th century). –LPfi (talk) 14:50, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

I was thinking of listings other than sights, such as in the "Buy" or "Sleep" sections. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:23, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

OK. As the village has some 100 inhabitants, I assume there aren't any shops, and without tourists or business travellers, there are hardly any hotels or restaurants. For visitors to the community, seeking own accommodation isn't recommended. There might of course be accommodation for seasonal workers or just vacant rooms (or houses). The churches and the Château de Cormatin a few kilometres away could be mentioned (it seems to get many visitors, although a private home, I added it as Go next). –LPfi (talk) 12:04, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek, LPfi:I have moved the Wikidata entry for this article from "Taizé (Q539923)" to "Taizé Community (Q111054)". Would it be worth creating a stub in Wikivoyage for the village of Taizé". Comment please? Martinvl (talk) 16:55, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

I don't think so. We should have a redirect (perhaps we already have one) and perhaps a Nearby section. I believe the village isn't big enough to have its own article. I'll create the Nearby with the current see listings. –LPfi (talk) 17:19, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

The redirect exists. I created the Nearby and added listings to there. –LPfi (talk) 17:33, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Eat and sleep

• @Ibaman: What should be done with Eat and Sleep? Should the present information be reformatted as listings? I don't think that would improve the article. The caravan park could of course have a marker, but I assume you should still get directions locally instead of just driving there based on Wikivoyage.

Perhaps the current information could be improved in some other way. What would be needed?

There may be accommodation and food available in nearby villages, but it is hardly relevant for those visiting the community, so I cannot see it would be essential for the current article.

–LPfi (talk) 06:14, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

• @Ibaman: I have identified the locations on site where pilgrims can sleep or eat. I do not believe that they are available to casual visitors. Is this OK for upgrading the article to "useable"? Martinvl (talk) 16:01, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

fair enough, I think it's OK, in this case. Ibaman (talk) 16:05, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

I am not sure the markers are good. In the page on lodging (on families):

"All those who can should bring camping equipment. Otherwise, families may be given a room, a small dormitory or a family tent, in Ameugny, at Taizé, or nearby. Families with very young children are given priority for accommodation in rooms. Living conditions are very simple."

I think there are dormitories all around, and probably dormitories and "rooms" are mixed up in the same buildings. I assume locations are allocated more in an effort to keep groups together than to have the same type of accommodation at one site. Exceptions would be the caravan park and perhaps the big tents, as they need space and infrastructure not easy to provide everywhere. A family tent could easily be put up near family accommodation, and likewise I suppose those of a group having a tent would be placed near the rest of the group. I don't know, though. Does somebody around?

–LPfi (talk) 16:47, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

@LPfi:In addition to the offical site, I consulted Google Maps, this 2005 map and this 1994 map. The main camping ground seems unchanged while the official site refers to the "Madras" as the main "dormitary area". I could not locate the caravan park, so I omitted it. I could only find one refectory, so that is the one that I included. Martinvl (talk) 20:29, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

@LPfi:I found a book on the internet "A Community Called Taize" by Jason Brian Santos. Chapter 2 of the book looks at the practical aspects that are of interest to Wikivoyage. In particular, the writer tells of a designated area where one can pirch one's own tent, an area where the Community's large tents are pitched. Since these are alongside each other, I have merged them on the map. Although there are two dormitary areas adjacent to one another, almost all the pilgrims go into the Madras area - the othre area is reserved for long-term volunteers and older visitors. I have therefore only indicated the principal area. Again, food-wise the writer writes of the main refectory with a passing mention of a kitchen in the older residence. Again, for most of the visitors, the main refectory is the only one of interest, which is why I have only shown it.

In light of this, I think that the artcile is ready to be upgraded to "Useful". Martinvl (talk) 22:07, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

@Martinvl: For tents, that could be true. But what about "families may be given a room, a small dormitory or a family tent, in Ameugny, at Taizé, or nearby" (as quoted above)? My (perhaps dated) information is that families lodged in Ameugny get food delivered and served there. From when is the book? –LPfi (talk) 06:46, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Families are there just some weeks, not all the busy season, so I assume the same lodging facilities are used by other visitors in other weeks. –LPfi (talk) 06:49, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

@LPfi: The book that I read is date 2009. What is the date of your information. For the record, I found Ameugny on Google Earth - it is about 800 metres from the northern end of the Taize Community property (which is 400 metres from north to south). Martinvl (talk) 15:10, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Mine is from about the same times. I didn't place a marker for Ameugny, as I don't know whether the community only has some houses in the south (which ones?) or also closer to the centre. –LPfi (talk) 15:20, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

I placed a see marker for the church in Ameugny, which should allow people to grasp the distances. –LPfi (talk) 15:34, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

I think the "600 m" now in the article is from the community site. I think the site used (or one of them) is nearer the "Ameugny - Le Bourg" stop shown on our map than Ameugny around its church, perhaps a hundred metres north from the stop (which would be 175 m south of the church in Emeugny). That would be some 950 m north of the Church of Reconciliation, some 750 m north of the northernmost main dormitory buildings that I can see, did you use that point to get the 800 m? Or the centre of Ameugny as told by Google Maps? The "600 m" could be an optimistic approximation of the points closest to each other. –LPfi (talk) 11:17, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

@LPfi: The value of 600 metres was from my measurement using Google Maps and is the optimistic distance as you call it. I suggest that we simplify the "sleep" section and state that the church at Ameugny is located towards the north (far) side Ameugny and is about 1200 metres from the Church of the Reconcilliation. In this way we cover ourselves. Martinvl (talk) 15:29, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

I think we just can change the 600 m into "about 1 km", which would cover both 600 m and 1.2 km. That way we don't need to have the church involved more than necessary (did it). I don't think we need any more simplification, but if if you think it is too complicated, make a try. –LPfi (talk) 16:17, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Usable rural area

Does this article qualify yet for a "Usable" status? I think that it ticks all the boxes and is heading towards being a "Guide" article. Following on from an earlier discussion, I have upgraded to "Usable" status. Any comments? Martinvl (talk) 21:32, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, it ticks the boxes. I'd still want a few words on e.g. laundry, but that isn't required for usable. @Ibaman: what do you think? –LPfi (talk) 08:52, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

From what has been written already, it would appear that since you are asked to bring your own sleeping bag and sheets, you are expected to take your dirty laundry home with you. There are almost certainly laundry facilities for long-term volunteers, but I doubt that they will be used by pilgrims who are only staying for a week. Laundry facilities are almost certainly available in Mâcon. Martinvl (talk) 11:18, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

It'd be good to know. If you want to travel light and change underwear daily, a week is a long time, and as you don't have a private bathroom, using the sink could be impractical. You might also have had a long journey in, without too good laundry facilities. In busy times, I understand it can be difficult to provide laundry for thousands of youth, but families with 3–10-year olds may need a lot of clothes to cope without. Perhaps there are limited facilities for some of the visitors (and for long-stayers). I don't think using a sleeping bag implies not doing laundry (actually, I do more laundry on sleeping-bag journeys than travelling with a suitcase). –LPfi (talk) 12:50, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Please help with review

Hi @PapstChristian:. A few weeks ago I saw that there was a request for an article in Wikivoyage about the Taizé Community. Although I have never been to the community, the girlfriend that I had in 1975 was a pilgrim that year and as such I know a bit about its ethos. I am no longer in touch with her and anyway many things have changed since 1975. I see from your Talk page on the German Wikipedia that you have some time at the community as a volunteer. I wonder if you would be good enough to look over the article and identfy any errors or omissions. Martinvl (talk) 11:30, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Listing for Taizé Community

You see the problem, right? The whole article is about the Taizé Community, so how does it make sense to have a listing for the Taizé Community within in? Could someone please rephrase the listing suitably? Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:53, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Would it be better to add words like "contact" or "website" in this case? It looks redundant as it is, really. Ibaman (talk) 13:16, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Maybe "Management"? Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:22, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

This looks righteous to me, I will add it. Ibaman (talk) 13:28, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

The problem came from a try at having the official site in Understand instead of as linked from the name in the first sentence, a change that we started to do some time ago for any article. Usually the tourist office is what gets listed, but if there is no such, it usually is the municipal office, which can make a similar sore of the eye perhaps.

Anyway, I changed to "welcome team", as that made clear were the email goes (there is a separate address for the community, for press etc.), and I got rid of most of the phone parenthesis.

–LPfi (talk) 13:33, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Good solution, thanks! Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:24, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Please review

@MrRespectfulP: Hi, I saw in Wikipedia that you are currently at Taizé. Will you please be kind enough to cast your eye over this artcile. Martinvl (talk) 17:52, 24 April 2024 (UTC)