Wikivoyage talk:Access Expedition

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Swept in from the Talk:Tips for blind and visually impaired travellers

Very interesting topic! Glad to see the information included on Wikivoyage, but I am wondering if we want to have this information in the destination guides or is it so specific that it should only be here? That would be a different approach than our usual, but this is a specific case where travellers may in fact select their destination based on this information. Comments? (WT-en) Majnoona 22:25, 28 June 2006 (EDT)

Some of the information here is simply duplication from the respective country (or whatever articles), and doesn't seem to have any special relevance to visual impairment. Dialing procedures, electricity, public transport... are all relevant to any traveler. There's no question that "tips for blind travelers" is a valid travel topic, but the way this article is going so far (with a section for each place being described) is either going to become a huge page, or it's going to have to be split up into separate pages, like a separate "Wikivoyage for the blind". My main question is why most of this info can't simply be included in the guide articles themselves? - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 07:30, 29 June 2006 (EDT)
I think the problems is partly the format. I actually dont have a problem with the information specific to blind and visually impaired travelers (BVIT) appearing here with a link to the full guide, but it needs a clearer layout than a numbered list. Currently it suggests:

To add a city, please feel free to use the following template:

City

  1. Street Layout: (patterns, notable intersections)
  2. Local Contact Information: (Entertainment, accessible venues, local agencies)
  3. Ground Transportation: (taxis, buses, limos, shuttles, trains)
  4. Airport Layout: (gate and concourse configuration, food, airline clubs)
I'd suggest instead:

City

Overview of accessibility for BVITs.

  • Local resources
  • Transportation
  • Guidedogs
Or maybe it just all should go in the destinaiton guides? I'd like to here more opinions (and from the contributor too!) (WT-en) Majnoona 08:22, 29 June 2006 (EDT)

The original concept behind this page was to have a page that will specifically list the relevant details for a BVIT so that one wouldn't have to surf a ton of links and information pages just to find out what blindness organization is in New York, for example. This page is definitely a work in progress, as I am still learning the Wiki protocol.

Disabled travellers[edit]

Swept in from the Talk:Tips for blind and visually impaired travellers

I think that it would be helpful to have an extra section in the templates for city, large city, regions etc where tips could be given on attractions which make/don't make provisions for the disabled. e.g. Some gardens have areas with tactile or scented plants, particularly suited to the visually impaired. Knowledge of whether or not there is a lift in buildings can be vital for those with limited mobility. I am pretty new here and would have no idea how to go about implementing this, even if others agree with the basic idea.(WT-en) Davidx 10:06, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

Not support That is a very good idea. Tips for disabled travelers, especially in the less traveled cities of the world, would be very useful.--(WT-en) Wandering 11:36, 1 November 2007 (EDT).
User:(WT-en) Sapphire is the voice of reason here. I wonder whether its worth suggesting that information for disabled travelers be included in the appropriate listing (and Cope) in the FAQ in Project:Article templates? It's not something I think about, for example.--(WT-en) Wandering 12:57, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
Support Great idea, but it may be better that those who are impaired, contribute the information, as they are more aware of needs and are quicker to notice it than those not impaired. Could this be started as a Travel Topic? Suggestions could be made for a new template on this issue to be included on each destination as suggested. I am always wondering, what were they thinking when they put all of those steps into public buildings and churches when they designed them. (WT-en) 2old 12:00, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
Sorry, but it's a bad idea, as proposed. The information can and should be included in our guides, but not in a separate section. If a traveler needs this type of information then that information should be mentioned in the description of the attraction, restaurant, or whatever. What's the point of saying 'Hotel X is a beautiful and comfortable hotel' in the Sleep section, then making the reader check some other section just to find out Hotel X doesn't have any accommodating features for handicapped travelers? Last point, but any other relevant info should be included in "Cope". -- (WT-en) Sapphire(Talk) • 12:11, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
Actually as a legally blind and hard of hearing person I'd say it's a good idea. I don't want to have to trawl through everything on the page to find the one or two places out of twenty that are reasonably accessible for me. I want a section that will give me a quick guide to the best opportunities. However, I also want more detailed information under each individual listing. The same way we have a contact section to let you know where you can find wI-fi access thru Internet cafes etc but you'd also want to know under accommodation if your hotel had free wifi access. So... Not either/or but both please. Probably disabled people will fill in an access section and establishment owners will give details of their accessibility. --Dakinjones (talk) 19:13, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
We do have Tips for blind and visually impaired travellers and could have more travel topics along those lines. However, I mostly agree with Sapphire about info in destination guides. In general, it should go in the attraction info. Mention wheelchair access, or lack of it, in the description of a hotel or restaurant, not a separate section of a city or district article.
When there's more general overview info, then that can go in a country or region guide. "Elbonia" has stairs everywhere due to the mountainous terrain, and no wheelchair ramps or elevators" or "In Vooglia, wheelchair access is legally required at all restaurants." This lets us omit it in many attraction listings, just mentioning the exceptions. (WT-en) Pashley 05:02, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

Health/handicap section?[edit]

Swept in from the pub

I'm a big wikivoyage fan, but I was wondering if a section could be added for special health condition or handicap tips. Or should those just be integrated into normal discussion more? For example, my friend has a bum knee, and it's really helpful to him to know about cable cars he can take, or say, tall buildings with elevators he can take for the view rather than climbing churches. Or for my sister, who suffers from IBS (like having traveler's tummy all the time) and always wants to know if she's going to be trapped on a bus without a bathroom for hours, things like that. 99.141.66.187 01:11, 3 May 2009 (EDT)Heidi

Its a great ideal to have this information on Wikivoyage. Typically, however, we don't make separate sections for particularly classes of travellers. All the information just goes into the appropriate part of the guide. Please plunge forward and add it. The where to stick it guide references some disabled information. However, if there is some precedent for itineraries and travel topics for classes of travellers, and I think a Seeing New York (city) by wheelchair would be a perfectly reasonable travel topic (or itinerary) --(WT-en) Inas 01:17, 3 May 2009 (EDT)


Cool, will do. -- Heidi
An access="" tag as part of listing would also be very useful, it could contain access difficulties, possibilities and tips. --(WT-en) inas 07:34, 17 June 2009 (EDT)

Suggestions for accessibility info[edit]

Swept in from the pub

Hi there, Just wondering if there's any standard for adding info specific to wheelchair accessibility. If not, are there any suggestions?

A few options I can think of:

  • Inline - Easy to find but may bloat articles
  • Section per article - My suggested method
  • External page per article - Comprehensive but much redundancy, bloat

I think this is an important market to include, as comprehensive access info is hard to find & fragmented currently. What would be your thought on users adding an "Accessibility" section per article? Where should it be? Welcome any feedback. (WT-en) Kyebosh 02:34, 23 June 2011 (EDT)

In general, I support including such information at its natural position within an article, with any details that don't fit elsewhere going in "Stay safe" or "Cope". For U.S. destinations, for instance, lack of accessibility would be the exception rather than the rule, so we should only call it out when we have to say that there may be difficulties. (WT-en) LtPowers 14:32, 23 June 2011 (EDT)
Unfortunately that's not at all true, speaking from much experience. Good accessibility is very much the exception especially for (but most certainly not limited to) any constructions more than ~15 years old. I like the readability of adding access info in-line but fear it could bloat the articles (considering the info would irrelevant to many readers).
Perhaps there is a way to add a small "Universal Access" symbol to the beginning/end/title of a listing which could link to or tooltip a short message, for example (a museum) "Elevator to all floors, Braille signage, hearing loop on large exhibitions"? I'm a newbie to wiki markup so not even sure if this is possible...

(WT-en) Kyebosh 14:53, 27 June 2011 (EDT)

Wow. It took me forever to find this, but I'd refer to this discussion that we had a few years ago. I'm still against a separate section and agree with LtPowers that the info should go into individual listings, or if a destination is so completely handicap unfriendly, then into a stay safe or cope section. -- (WT-en) Sapphire(Talk) • 19:51, 27 June 2011 (EDT)
Thanks Sapphire! I agree, all in the one article seems best. Perhaps you could take a quick look at the Santa Monica -> Getting Around article? I've added a small section as a demo of what I would have found helpful as a traveler. I hear the suggestion of "only mention if there's a problem", but since accessibility requirement vary so greatly I think a brief description of access points serves a larger audience better. Sadly, "accessible" is by far not the default, so even the smallest info can help a great deal. (WT-en) Kyebosh 00:45, 1 July 2011 (EDT)
Also see the discussion at Project:Travellers'_pub/May_2009#Health/handicap section?. When access information is available, it should be added to the listing. This can include wheelchair access, as well as issues for other mobility impairments or sensory impairments. --(WT-en) inas 18:45, 8 November 2011 (EST)

Disabled Expedition[edit]

{swept}} So, having plunged forward and created Wikivoyage:LGBT Expedition, I think it might be time to suggest something else too.

Earlier, I had a chat with a journalist at the Independent (London) who wanted to know about Wikivoyage. I hope I gave a fair representation of the launch of the project from my perspective as a long-time Wikipedian who is playing around at Wikivoyage. I discussed how there was great potential to build out travel guides for specific use cases and pointed him to New York City with children, and mentioned the LGBT expedition, and the potential that we might write guides and itineraries that deal specifically with issues faced by, say, cyclists.

He then suggested a really good idea: an expedition for disabled travellers covering venues that are wheelchair accessible. It would be very simple to add disabled access information to venue listings (hotels, pubs/bars etc.). There are existing efforts being done in the OpenStreetMap community through projects like Wheelmap (which crowdsources venue accessibility and then stores that data in the OpenStreetMap database: see the wheelchair tag).

Any interest in a disability-related expedition? —Tom Morris (talk) 14:17, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

We already have Wikivoyage:Access Expedition. Expeditions on Wikivoyage haven't really been active for a while...prior to the fork, there just weren't enough editors & expedition members to make any viable (or they quickly lost steam). Hopefully that changes with all the new users we receive and the existing expeditions will start back up. You can start a discussion about new ideas for the expedition on its talk page and leave this message here to attract new members to it. AHeneen (talk) 14:27, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Ah, thanks. I'll go through and add disability access information to the pages I've worked on shortly. —Tom Morris (talk) 14:29, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Making editing more accessible for people who are blind/visually impaired[edit]

Swept in from the pub

Would it be possible to do something about the captcha needed for adding external links... An integral part of editing on this wiki? Like most captchas it's a real pain but unlike most it has absolutely no alternative to the visual puzzle presented. Not even a link to get an easier one. Any way to amend that? All captchas are definitely not created equal. Although I have to admit this isn't the worst I've encountered... --Dakinjones (talk) 22:43, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

I think that disappears for autoconfirmed users. --Inas (talk) 22:48, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Accessibility in listings[edit]

One really cool thing we could do is have accessibility information for individual listings. Including the information in the description would probably be too much, but we could perhaps have an access="" field, with information that would display, say, when you hover over an icon? Or maybe just an accessible or not accessible toggle? --Peter Talk 21:07, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

I think we should start with a wheelchair=* tag in our listings. And use the same values as at OSM --Inas (talk) 01:06, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Archived[edit]

This expedition has been archived because it has not had any recent activity. If anyone wishes to reactivate it then please give notice in the Wikivoyage:Travellers' pub --Andrewssi2 (talk) 01:42, 23 September 2014 (UTC)