Talk:Bread and confectionery

Should this be split in two?

Honestly the only thing bread and confectionery have in common in my mind is that they both are commonly sold at bakeries. However, bread tends to have a lower amount of variety outside of Germany (which has about three trillion different types of bread, half of them available at the average local bakery) Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:39, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Hard bread in Nordic countries

I cannot relate to this (in the section on the Nordic countries):

While hard bread is ubiquitous and is traditionally eaten at major holidays ... the taste is no great sensation.

Is "hard bread" supposed to refer to "knäckebröd" and "skorpor"? My experience is hard bread is not a typical part of party servings, except "surskorpor", "smörgåskex" and the like served to cheese as dessert. "Knäckebröd" is regarded no-frill food and some are uninteresting, but I'd say some do have taste, and are worth trying at least once. "Skorpor" (dried wheat buns), on the other hand, were a huge success when introduced in France, I've been told.

So this sentence need clarification, but as I do not know the hard breads outside Finland, I'd appreciate some comments.

--LPfi (talk) 11:12, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

LPfi: "Hard bread" ought to refer to knäckebröd here, right? There's no huge difference between Sweden and Finland, in my experience. But I'd agree "the taste is no great sensation" isn't necessarily true. /Julle (talk) 16:17, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

I have never heard about hard bread being traditional food at major holidays, so if that use is common, I suppose it must be a Swedish thing (smörgåskex, Ryvita & al are served with cheese, but that is not traditional servings – or a quite new tradition at least among less well-off). I also do think there is a slight difference between Finland and Sweden in what you see in the grocery stores. I have a hard time imaging a "pomminkestävä" (really hard) kind (e.g. from Ylhäisten leipomo?) in Sweden, and I do not think there are even breads like Maukas (pure rye). That said, the softer ones, with much wheat, are common also in Finland and might have become even more so. --LPfi (talk) 11:38, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

Potential addition(s)

Have a gander: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt-rising_bread Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:09, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

No bread from the grocery store?

Regarding this edit, as a resident of Germany, I have to say that some bakeries offer roughly the same quality as e.g. the baked goods section of Rewe or Lidl. The fresh baked goods section, mind you. Stuff that comes pre-packaged in plastic bags is **** in all grocery stores, but especially the big "chain" bakeries ship their dough thingies to their franchises in the frozen state and bake them there - which is exactly what Lidl or Rewe do these days. And they basically both use the same ingredients. Of course there are still bakeries that freshly bake with actual sourdough and whatnot, but you'll have to search a bit to find them and you'll pay quite a bit for said quality. Backwerk (to take one well-known example) is more expensive than Lidl without being better and less good than some other bakeries without being that much cheaper. And funnily enough that last sentence was what my brother said just the other day. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:36, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

I've been disappointed by the bread and baked goods that I've found in Tengelman's, Hitt, Aldi Süd, and Netto's. Few things are offered, and some of them look like they were made from plastic. I've seen nothing in these grocery stores that suggests that they're baking on site, and perhaps this is the main problem. (I don't think that I'm hard to please; every bakery I've seen in a German train station or airport has been good enough for me.)

By the way, if you know a reliable source for a high-quality traditional Mischbrot, then please tell me.  :-) When I've asked, most bakeries either don't make it, or don't make it very often. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:23, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

There's a difference between the packed stuff (which is generally pretty terrible) and the fresh stuff. this is what I meant. Anyway, the pictures you show do look awful. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:46, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

A few minor things

"In particular, Naples is well-known for its cannoli, baba au rhum, Neapolitan cheesecake (torta di formaggio) based on ricotta cheese, and many other classic pastries." I don't think Naples is more well-known than other cities when it comes to desserts. w:it:Cannolo is actually from Sicily. w:it:Casatiello, assuming that's what "torta di formaggio" means, isn't a dessert, usually. w:it:Pastiera would be a popular dessert from Naples instead. --Elitre (talk) 08:43, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Please plunge forward and add that the article. --ϒpsilon (talk) 08:55, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Yes, plunge forward, but in this case "torta di formaggio" is Neapolitan cheesecake, which is indeed a dessert and quite sweet. If you have a more particularized name for it, please use that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:14, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, just noticed the replies -_- . "torta di formaggio napoletana" doesn't provide any real result on search engine, as one would expect if it was a thing. This is because that's either not the correct name, or it's not a Neapolitan recipe, even if you ate it there, or you're confusing it with Pastiera. I am not from Naples, so again I struggle in understanding what this may refer to, a picture would probably be easy to identify. As I explain above, the Casatiello isn't sweet by default, it just can be made so, so the sweet version of it, assuming it really deserves to be mentioned, should probably also mention that it's an exception and not the rule. --Elitre (talk) 06:05, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Here in the U.S., we speak of Neapolitan cheesecake and Sicilian cheesecake. You are Italian, so you know not to look for Neapolitan cheesecake in Naples. Just please, as I said, plunge forward with any helpful changes you want to make. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:09, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Here in the U.S., we speak of New York cheesecake, and nothing else really gets the name, unless perhaps your grandmother preferred a different approach, in which case there could be New York cheesecake and Nonna's cheesecake.

Mr Google says that Sicilian cheesecake is a sweet ricotta cheesecake. Mr Google seems to believe that Neapolitan cheesecake has vanilla, strawberry, and chocolate layers, as if it were the New York cheesecake version of the ice cream that is similar to spumoni. However, if you exclude all of those (which is most of them), then w:pastiera, aka "Neapolitan Easter Pie", seems to be the answer, e.g., this recipe. Does the picture in that recipe look like what you two were thinking of? WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:39, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Maybe I should have said in New York and other American cities with long-standing Italian communities, we make that differentiation. I'm not sure the type of cheesecake I'm thinking of has rice in it. But this definitely isn't it! So I think you're right. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:39, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

If you can describe the difference (from the consumer's point of view) between Sicilian and Neapolitan, then I can probably find what you're looking for. The worst possible outcome is that we're no further along, and the worst-likely outcome is that your description would give me an excuse to ask some friends about what their Nonnas made. I've collected some very happy recipes that way in the past.  :-) WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:22, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Here in New York, in my experience, the difference is that Sicilian cheesecake has candied fruits in it and Neapolitan cheesecake does not. Also, the texture of Sicilian cheesecake is softer and closer to custard and has a bit of liquid on it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:39, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Liquorice tourism

Have a look here. It seems worth mentioning Pontefract in this article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:17, 10 July 2019 (UTC)