Talk:Delft

Alternative banner for this article?

Banner currently used in this article

Suggested new alternative banner

I have previously created an alternative banner for this article (which was initially created for the parallel article at the Hebrew Wikivoyage, but I decided to suggest we'll use it here at the English Wikivoyage article as well). Which banner do you prefer that we'll use on the top of this article? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 13:12, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

• I prefer the current banner. The new banner looks like most cities in Europe. We could probably do a better banner using Delftware than the one we have now. Ground Zero (talk) 13:29, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
• Prefer the current banner. Overall, not really a fan of most of the 'distant panorama' city banners unless they're capturing a unique skyline. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 13:40, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
• I am strongly in favour of the current banner as well. For the unfamiliar, this new panorama banner shows the Oude Kerk to the right, but not much of notability other than that. Most of what is seen in the background is the neighbourhood Westerkwartier, which for as far as I can see is mostly 1920s and later urban sprawling. In other words, it shows nothing too interesting or representative of the destination. Were this to have shown more iconic landmarks (the source image includes the old and new train stations, both notable in their own right, as well as the old city hall and a good chunk of the old city centre), it could have stood a chance for me. Not even that would have beaten out the Delftware banner for me though, which is one of the things this city is best known for nationally, if not also internationally. I do agree with Ground Zero though, that a better Delftware motif could be used instead. As I see it, a banner should represent the destination first, and show it when that is not an option. -- Wauteurz (talk) 15:04, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
• Current banner is better.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:28, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

More proposals: Ground Zero (talk) 18:46, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

banner 3

banner 4

• My preference is for #3. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:28, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
• Honestly, neither. Where they do depict Delftware, they are only linked to Delft by that. Banner 3's vases are in a château in France, and the tiles depicted in banner 4 are in Warsaw, Poland. To me, that makes it too disconnected from Delft as a destination to be used as a banner. They would be lovely for an article specifically about Delftware, but not for Delft. -- Wauteurz (talk) 12:45, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Some more proposals, not to flood the suggestions, but because I believe that these would be more fitting than the suggestions so far:

Banner 5) Façade of "The Factory", one of the four shops in and around Delft (this one is in Rijswijk) of Delft-based Delftware producer Heinen. I reckon this is a nice combination between combining sights (or shopping, in this case) with Delftware, even if the shop depicted is slightly out of Delft's city limits.

Banner 6) Like the current banner, this is a close-up of an early Delftware plate depicting a scene in nature. The plate shown can be seen in the Boymans van Beuningen (Rotterdam).

Banner 7) Same idea as 6. This plate is a 1880s plate visible in the Rijksmuseum (Amsterdam).

• The order listed is in order of my most to least favourite. -- Wauteurz (talk) 12:45, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
• My preference would also be, in order, #5, #6, #7. Ground Zero (talk) 13:06, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
• OK, now, based purely on aesthetics, my preferences would be for #3 and then pretty much of a tie between #7 and the current banner for 2nd place, but I'd strongly consider deferring to Wauteurz. Wauteurz, are you saying that 1-7 are your 1st to 7th choices in order? Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:31, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
  • @Ikan Kekek: Not quite. My message above is limited to the banners I added myself. I personally feel that an article for Delft can use Delftware for its banner or other images, but they should remain linked to the city. Using plates or tiles visible in, say, Rotterdam and Amsterdam as I've done with banners 6 and 7 doesn't give a huge disconnect, as these can easily be visited from Delft (Boymans van Beuningen is 30 minutes by public transit from central Delft, the Rijksmuseum 72 minutes). Using works that are visible only in France and Poland, as is the case with 3 and 4, proves too much of a disconnect from the destination to me, when there are more than plenty of Delftware works to be seen closer-by. It doesn't take away from 3 being a great banner, though it would be fit for an article on Delftware, rather than Delft.

I make this distinction of relevance because Delft is very much a historical city, linked with Dutch history. Most of our monarchs as well as some historical figures the likes of Hugo Grotius are buried in the Nieuwe Kerk. Add to that plenty of historical sites, culture, and so forth, and you'll see that Delftware is only a part of Delft. This makes me want to not include any Delftware that is only visible outside of the region (North or South Holland).

My arguments would in order of weight would be the relevance to the destination (5, 6, 7), quality of the depicted Delftware - yellowing is a 'feature' of this style, and it doesn't look too flattering once it has yellowed (3), additive value of the switch to this banner - does it add anything over maintaining the current banner? (1, 4), relevance of visible destinations - which, as mentioned above, is lacking in this panorama banner (2). This would make my order of preference 5, 6, 7, 3, 1, 4, 2, though it's a close call between 5 and 6.

Also, I feel like it might be worthwhile to mention that in order of quality, price and rarity, the depicted Delftware in these banners would be 3, 6, 1, 7, 4, sorting from highest to lowest (source: Material study including Delftware is a part of my study). Specifically commenting on 4, the only thing that sets it apart is where it wound up: Poland. Within the Netherlands, specifically the region of Holland, these tiles with their stylised imagery are very common and would have been rather cheap to buy. The yellowing on 1 is why I listed it so low in my preference, even if the rather frivolous design makes it a notable piece. 7 is quite common in appearance, but has my preference over 1 because of this. One could even make the argument that using a more common Delftware piece to depict Delft would be better, as common items are more accessible to everyone, and thus more visible to the traveller.
-- Wauteurz (talk) 08:16, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your thorough explanation. I will defer to your choices. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:24, 15 March 2021 (UTC)