Talk:Donbas

Do we really need this article?

I mean, is there anything here that isnt already cocered in the DPR and LPR articles? Why have another level of region just because? It's not like this is a major travel destination. If Wikivoyage were an encyclopedia, it would be fine, but I think that the traveller is better served by not having articles for every place name. Let's focus on creating articles with useful travel information. This should be redirected back to Eastern Ukraine. Ground Zero (talk) 14:55, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

This article could replace the LPR and DPR articles and include the Ukrainian-controlled parts of Luhansk Oblast and Donbas Oblast. That way we would get rid of the former and get a place to describe the latter. Eastern Ukraine is large as a lowest-level region at some 15 M people on 150,000 km² (our definition doesn't match those of Wikipedia, so area and population are somewhat smaller).

To my understanding the region is a well-known one, and the history of the break-away areas can be summarised here instead of dominating the Understand of Eastern Ukraine. If things settle, there should be enough potential content, and until then I think this article is better than creating three region articles about Donbas (LPR and DPR don't exist any more, so must be replaced by something), with scope of those region articles changing from day to day.

–LPfi (talk) 15:18, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

You make a good argument, LPfi. I would support merging LPR and DPR into this article and redirecting them here to an article the covers Russian-and Ukrainian-controlled parts, until such time as the region is divided. Ground Zero (talk) 18:02, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

This long later, have we made a decision yet. FWIW, I too support redirecting this into Eastern Ukraine for now. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 22:49, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

LPfi convinced me: merge LPR and DPR into this article, and note the disputed status. Ground Zero (talk) 02:16, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

My point is that these are not the only disputed regions: keep in mind that Russia also claims Zaporizhia and Kharkiv Oblasts, and the only difference here is that parts of Luhansk Oblast and Donetsk Oblast were de facto independent. The fronts will keep changing, and for now, it's just easier if we follow internationally recognised boundaries (except for Crimea, which is now a de facto part of Russia). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 02:21, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

I think we agree that, aside from Crimea where Russia occupies the whole oblast, we keep the partially occupied oblasts breadcrumbed under Ukraine for now. The question is whether to treat the Donbas as a subregion of Eastern Ukraine or not. I think there is enough content to warrant a separate article. Ground Zero (talk) 02:34, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

The second question is whether Eastern Ukraine should be regionalised or not. We can do four things with Eastern Ukraine:

1. leave Eastern Ukraine as a bottom-level region
2. do nothing and leave Eastern Ukraine in a half-regionalised state
3. leave Eastern Ukraine in a half-regionalised state, but Donetsk Oblast and Luhansk Oblast into this article (as LPfi proposes)
4. fully regionalise Eastern Ukraine

Out of the three, I least favour option 2 as we either prefer regions to be fully or not regionalised (or regionalised like SEQ#Regions). I'm all for regionalising Eastern Ukraine by oblast as there are 16 articles breadcrumbed underneath it, excluding Donetsk and Luhansk. Obviously, this isn't a huge priority given that no one will be using Wikivoyage to travel to these regions at the moment, but it's still desirable for it to be regionalised properly. Option 3 is better than option 2 and is a feasible short-term solution, but that does not solve the ultimate problem, which is that Eastern Ukraine is only half-regionalised. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 02:59, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘I see your point about partially regionalised states. Let's merge Donbass into Eastern Ukraine. Ground Zero (talk) 12:19, 28 December 2022 (UTC)