Talk:Firearms

Hunting trophies, potential edit war?

I started this section recently, to explain the new restrictions many airlines are imposing. My opening paragraph was:

In mid-2015 an American dentist shot a lion named Cecil in Zimbabwe. This appears to have been quite illegal; his guides have been charged and he may be extradited. Whatever the legal status it was certainly controversial, provoking widespread outrage.

User:K7L has edited since and that paragraph now reads:

In July 2015 an American dentist lured a protected lion named Cecil from Hwange National Park in Zimbabwe with bait, then shot him with a bow-and-arrow. He died forty hours later, killed with a firearm, his final hours tracked by an Oxford University (WildCRU) GPS collar as part of a wildlife study. His guides have been charged with facilitating an illegal hunt. His dental office suspended operation in the face of protests and widespread outrage; he is facing questioning from the US Fish and Wildlife Service and may be extradited.

Adding the link to the park is a fine idea, but other than that I'd like to revert all changes shown above. The new text seems to me far more detailed & encyclopedic than necessary as background to the shipment bans. If anything, my text should have been shortened, not expanded. There are plenty of other sources if anyone wants details.

Also, I was very careful not to make unsubstantiated or premature claims, which I think current text does. It has "an American dentist lured", but isn't it the guides who are accused of that? And aren't both dentist & guides to be considered innocent until proven guilty?

Other opinions? Pashley (talk) 02:32, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Whatever the exact circumstances of the unfortunate episode of Cecil the lion were, they don't belong on Wikivoyage. I support to revert the change made, and further remove the language of it being illegal.

Wikivoyage is not the place to have a debate on the rights and wrongs of game hunting. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 02:43, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps we should redirect this page to Wikivoyage:Joke articles/Time travel, which seems to have better coverage of the CITES treaty (which applies in 180 nations and dates to 1975) than appears in our main travel guide? The attempts to stop the transport of unlawfully poached elephant ivory go back years (this isn't just about Cecil the lion in 2015) and this is relevant to travel if the voyager can't get some item onto the plane or through national customs. If anything, I've expanded the text to be less about Cecil and the recent news, by including the existing restrictions before this incident. K7L (talk) 03:22, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Hunting is currently a redirect to this page, would be better as an independent article. There is some mention of ivory & endangered species retrictions at Shopping#Restrictions.

I was definitely not objecting to adding info on ivory etc. The only part I want to revert is the opening paragraph dealing with Cecil. Pashley (talk) 03:39, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. Criticism of the text K7L added does not equate to being critical of actual traveler relevant information. Gratuitous details ( i.e. "He died forty hours later" ) were just not relevant and seemed to be jumping on a bandwagon. (w:CITES is a multilateral treaty, not something that can be directly applied to a traveler going hunting.

The Cecil story could be added to an infobox, as opposed to directly heading the section in question Andrewssi2 (talk) 03:45, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Oh, drats, I was wanting to add the complete set of Cecil listings in each category, such as this one for "buy":

• LoJack for Lions, Wildlife Conservation and Research Unit (WildCRU), Oxford University, ☏ +44 LION-ONE (5466-663). So you've bought the Cecil the lion Beanie Baby, the Cecil the lion tote bag and the Cecil the lion mobile telephone. Why not purchase the LoJack for lions GPS collar to download hourly locations by satellite (£500/year) direct to your den? Endorsed by Lions Club and Lioness Club chapters nationwide. £1,500. (updated Aug 2015)

The question of what trophies can be easily, safely or lawfully transported is a complex one... and yes, hunting as a separate topic from recreational shooting is already a requested article. I suppose CITES does matter if individual nations, businesses or transport providers are using it as a basis to turn travellers or cargo away, but if you want to reword this mess by all means plunge forward. K7L (talk) 04:05, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

I rewrote the infobox text. Comments? Further changes? Pashley (talk) 11:44, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

The cause-and-effect relationship isn't so much "dentist poaches lion, airlines respond with restrictions on transporting trophies" as "dentist poaches lion, resulting media coverage leads to public pressure on airlines, who respond with restrictions on transporting trophies". This isn't the first poaching incident, nor the worst, reported in Hwange National Park. In 2013, poachers were killing elephants in the park with cyanide to take their ivory. If anything is being done in response to this one specific incident, publicity is a key link in the chain and needed to explain what happens next. K7L (talk) 14:51, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

A few airlines like Emirates & Etihad, who are important because they have lots of African flights, banned trophies within days of Cecil's death. Public pressure was important in getting others to follow, but I doubt it was a factor in the first bans. Publicity & outrage, yes, but not pressure. Pashley (talk) 18:32, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Deer processing, meat processing, cutting and packing services

So the voyager gets to Rovaniemi, kills all of Santa's reindeer and needs someone to butcher the meat for Christmas dinner. Basically, something like (from Anticosti):

• CoOperative Anticosti (Marché Richelieu), Port-Menier, ☏ +1 418-535-0129, fax: +1 418-535-0140. Local grocer with bakery, butcher, beer and wine, spirits, pizza, BBQ chicken, produce, seafood, ice, bait, propane and fuel. Preparation of orders in advance, deer meat cutting & packing service in season. Open year-round. 

For that matter, maybe Elmer Fudd is chasing daffy ducks again and is looking for duck blinds, camouflage, decoys... whatever. I could see many items which belong in hunting (or fishing, which has its own page) but don't really fit otherwise with recreational shooting - the trophy and taxidermy question is tip-of-the-iceberg as some of these animals are hunted for food, especially in the high Arctic where everything is otherwise imported great distances at significant expense. K7L (talk) 14:57, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

What about what the British "Shoot"?"

I.e What the establishment consider a reasonable way of spending a weekend picking off Pheasants, Grouse and others? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:40, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

That should probably be handled in Hunting#United Kingdom. Is what now is there what you asked for? –LPfi (talk) 12:32, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Moved to firearms

As the article didn't say much about recreational shooting as hobby, but mostly handled the legal aspect of carrying firearms over borders, and in different countries, I moved it here, to Firearms. Recreational shooting is still a valid topic, and can be recreated if somebody wants to discuss sport shooting abroad and similar, but I don't think that one use of firearms should be linked for general issues. –LPfi (talk) 12:29, 17 November 2024 (UTC)