User talk:Giftzwerg 88
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Hello, Giftzwerg 88! Welcome to Wikivoyage.
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Thanks for your work on Sindelfingen, a city I'm not familiar with.
All the best,
Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:09, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- I am very familiar with the city as I am a local resident. I also made thousands of pictures of Sindelfingen and Böblingen, far more than ever can be used in the article or in any other project. I have pictures of probably everything mentioned in the article. What do you think are the topics that should be depicted?--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 04:38, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- I wouldn't know. Perhaps you can give me some examples you're thinking of. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:42, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- Just tell me what gets your attention and I will find something in this pile.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 04:55, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- Or you might look at the pile and tell me what gets your attention, and I´ll include it in the article. The problem is too much to process, too much information. I need somebody who has no bias to make a choice.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 04:58, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- I have a few thoughts. First, in general, it's great to plunge forward and add any content that you think a visitor, such as a visiting friend, might find interesting (though not the types of details that are overly encyclopedic - see Welcome, Wikipedians and goals and non-goals for some examples of commonalities and contrasts between the sister sites). If someone else decides it's really unlikely to be of interest, OK, but in most cases, it's a pity to inhibit yourself in advance. Second, it's natural to start by writing about your home town. I'm a native New Yorker, and early on in my time on this site, I wrote a lot about my neighborhood and other parts of New York. Some of my writing was reverted or edited out, but a lot of it remains. It's impossible to be unbiased, anyway, and Wikivoyage doesn't try to present a neutral point of view, just to be fair.
- I wouldn't know. Perhaps you can give me some examples you're thinking of. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:42, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- Having said all that, and looking at your categories of photos: (1) graveyards may be of interest to visitors if they are beautiful, particularly poignant (partially destroyed Jewish cemeteries, etc.) and/or include graves of famous people; (2) the health sector probably won't bear lots of detailed references, but if there are hospitals that are particularly notable in some way, they might be reasonable to list in "Cope" (or in "See" if they're mainly notable for their beauty); (3) kindergartens and daycare centers probably won't be too relevant to visitors; (4) churches and other places of worship, if they're beautiful, historical or otherwise of interest, should be listed; start with the most beautiful or notable ones and see how many those amount to (we probably don't want 30); (5) we want to know about natural monuments; list those in "See" under a subheading; (6) notable or useful shopping malls can be listed with their offerings described in "Buy"; (6) electric towers that are tall and thereby landmarks can be listed in "See"; we list the Fernsehturm Berlin, for example.
- Does this give you some ideas? Let me know if you have any questions. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:25, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- I tend to include the Klinkum Sindelfingen and Klinikum Böblingen that provide health care and emergency care to both cities, something a visitor might need. Each facility has different tasks that complement each other, you break your leg, you go to one and if you have a stroke you go to the other. Both are run by the same company. A new facility is under construction that will replace both of them. The cemeteries are nice places to visit, as you can see in the pictures, but otherwise not very remarkable, no famous people to be found. I have pictures from all churches (afaik) and religious places of worship, two of them are remarkable because of history, two are notable because of their famous architect. Sindelfingen was well over 90% protestant and had no own place of worship for catholics some 100 years ago. After the war many catholic refugees came to Sindelfingen, they made some crosses and small wooden chapels and held worship at some places on the mountain top or out in the woods. Now Sindelfingen has three catholic churches. Do you think that the former places of worship deserve mentioning? The electric towers are quite a silly thing to photograph, however there are some people that for unknown reasons take care very much of these, give them coordinates and categories and talk about the technical details. But I assume no vistor ever pays attention. They are not landmarks either. Of the natural monuments only "Dicke Eiche im Mietholz" really stands out. This is an incredible big, strong and old oak, probably 500 + years. However, this tree is the most hidden of all, far away from regular roads and even marked hiking trails in a piece of Bannwald that has not seen a chain saw in decades and is intended to slowly turn into primeval forest within the next generations. Its hidden and remote place probably has saved him centuries ago, when wood was scarce. It took me two attempts to find it despite the fact that I know the area and the roads, but it is well hidden between other trees, no marked hiking trail either. I´d love the world to see it, but I´d hate visitors walking around in this wild and overgrown and more and more dangerous woods. You can see it only in winter, when the trees have no leaves.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 09:25, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- Understood on the tree. I'd say just list parks and so on, no need to list the tree. I think it's fine for you to list two or three clinics. The former places of worship are a good story, so why not? Not essential, but interesting background and history. If the cemeteries are nice to visit, list them. In general, within reason, it's better to err on the side of inclusion than exclusion, though I'll give you an example to the contrary: See Talk:Moscow/Central, where 32 listings of churches without descriptions that were formerly in the article were moved. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:07, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- I tend to include the Klinkum Sindelfingen and Klinikum Böblingen that provide health care and emergency care to both cities, something a visitor might need. Each facility has different tasks that complement each other, you break your leg, you go to one and if you have a stroke you go to the other. Both are run by the same company. A new facility is under construction that will replace both of them. The cemeteries are nice places to visit, as you can see in the pictures, but otherwise not very remarkable, no famous people to be found. I have pictures from all churches (afaik) and religious places of worship, two of them are remarkable because of history, two are notable because of their famous architect. Sindelfingen was well over 90% protestant and had no own place of worship for catholics some 100 years ago. After the war many catholic refugees came to Sindelfingen, they made some crosses and small wooden chapels and held worship at some places on the mountain top or out in the woods. Now Sindelfingen has three catholic churches. Do you think that the former places of worship deserve mentioning? The electric towers are quite a silly thing to photograph, however there are some people that for unknown reasons take care very much of these, give them coordinates and categories and talk about the technical details. But I assume no vistor ever pays attention. They are not landmarks either. Of the natural monuments only "Dicke Eiche im Mietholz" really stands out. This is an incredible big, strong and old oak, probably 500 + years. However, this tree is the most hidden of all, far away from regular roads and even marked hiking trails in a piece of Bannwald that has not seen a chain saw in decades and is intended to slowly turn into primeval forest within the next generations. Its hidden and remote place probably has saved him centuries ago, when wood was scarce. It took me two attempts to find it despite the fact that I know the area and the roads, but it is well hidden between other trees, no marked hiking trail either. I´d love the world to see it, but I´d hate visitors walking around in this wild and overgrown and more and more dangerous woods. You can see it only in winter, when the trees have no leaves.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 09:25, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- Does this give you some ideas? Let me know if you have any questions. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:25, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- In comparison to NYC Sindelfingen is tiny (while its cars known in the whole world), however there are many other cities of similar size in the vicinity and many villages packed in between them. The Region Stuttgart in which Sindelfingen is located, has a population of almost 2.7 million, but is divided into almost 200 different political entities. So it might look like rural, but it is part of the densest populated and most industrialized area in Germany. From the perspective of city development Böblingen and Sindelfingen form one city, but have two town halls, two majors, two budgets, two fire departments, two police departments, different sports facilities, different concert halls, .... while other things are common like the waste water treatment plant, incineration, road maintainance, electricity grid, telephone net, district heating, bus system and even one city district... So some parts might be redundant, as they are basically the same for both cities. I do not know how to handle this problem adequately. And of course people visit all facilities of the other city as well. Everything is just a bus ticket away or a ten-minute car ride, if traffic allows it.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 10:29, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- Just an FYI to G88, but we don't usually list places of worship per WV:Boring (scroll down a bit), but since these have had some deep history, it can be listed. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:30, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- I'd amend that. Places of worship are very commonly listed, but only if they're interesting. And some selectivity is needed, sometimes, because for example in Rome, there are literally hundreds of churches that are worth visiting for the architecture and art inside, if you have the time, But my feeling about Böblingen and Sindelfingen is that it's perfectly OK to make them one article, if that's the most appropriate way to help travellers. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:59, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- I am more concerned about the buildings than about the church service they provide. Travelers that have very special needs about their church service also have the means to find somebody to provide it while traveling. I think I´ll be able to select those church buildings, that stand out from the rest. This is nowhere near Rome and we don´t have pilgrims or religious crackheads. Religion is quite relaxed in Sindelfingen. There are churches that have or had protestant and catholic service in the same building. The Protestant Church gave a building to the Greek Orthodox Church, don´t know if they bought it or if they rent it, the size fits perfectly. People litterally don´t care.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 14:36, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- Right. The times for services cam be mentioned, or we can just expect interested readers to find those mentioned on the church's website, which we put in the url tab, but more travelers will be interested in the building, perhaps some art inside, and so forth. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:35, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- I am more concerned about the buildings than about the church service they provide. Travelers that have very special needs about their church service also have the means to find somebody to provide it while traveling. I think I´ll be able to select those church buildings, that stand out from the rest. This is nowhere near Rome and we don´t have pilgrims or religious crackheads. Religion is quite relaxed in Sindelfingen. There are churches that have or had protestant and catholic service in the same building. The Protestant Church gave a building to the Greek Orthodox Church, don´t know if they bought it or if they rent it, the size fits perfectly. People litterally don´t care.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 14:36, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- I'd amend that. Places of worship are very commonly listed, but only if they're interesting. And some selectivity is needed, sometimes, because for example in Rome, there are literally hundreds of churches that are worth visiting for the architecture and art inside, if you have the time, But my feeling about Böblingen and Sindelfingen is that it's perfectly OK to make them one article, if that's the most appropriate way to help travellers. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:59, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- Just an FYI to G88, but we don't usually list places of worship per WV:Boring (scroll down a bit), but since these have had some deep history, it can be listed. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:30, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
Wikidata[edit]
I am a user that is involved in Wikidata. Many of the places I intend to include already have a somewhow useabale Wikidata with object that has labels in German and English, description and aliases (most of the time), administrative entity, instance of, coordinates, commons category, and a picture. For example there is d:Q1905710 that has a wikipedia article in German and a well developed wikidata item. You simply can not ommit that. This is the one that dominates them all. Then I intend to include d:Q104679931 that is the most important catholic church and a nice building as well, and on the other hand there is the Greek Orthodox Church that has a building that is not remarkeable at all d:Q108063888 (but it looks nicer on the inside). Is the item useful? And if so, how can it be used? There are items for most of the hotels, but not with websites or telephone numbers. —The preceding comment was added by Giftzwerg 88 (talk • contribs)
- Any time there is a corresponding Wikidata label for any listing, it's good to include it in the listing unless, say, you're listing one Holiday Inn location and the Wikidata item is for the entire chain. It's true that many listings don't include Wikidata, but the how is explained on the Wikivoyage:Listings page, or at least an attempt is made to explain it. Let us know if you have questions after you've had a look at that page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:39, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- No, that is not the case. The item for IKEA Sindelfingen d:Q104698108 is only about the building in Sindelfingen, not about the whole chain.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 23:26, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
- I didn't say it was. Does the following sentence make sense to you? "Any time there is a corresponding Wikidata label for any listing, it's good to include it in the listing unless, say, you're listing one Holiday Inn location and the Wikidata item is for the entire chain." "Unless" means that otherwise, it's good to include. I think you skipped over the word "unless". Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:09, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
- No, that is not the case. The item for IKEA Sindelfingen d:Q104698108 is only about the building in Sindelfingen, not about the whole chain.--Giftzwerg 88 (talk) 23:26, 12 August 2021 (UTC)