Talk:Delaware

Unnamed section

I think Delaware (state) passes the much-more-famous test. --(WT-en) Evan 16:20, 20 Nov 2005 (EST)

9 Cities

The cities list should be reduced to a limit of nine per policy. I don't know which exactly should remain (most of what I know about Delaware is that they are toll-happy highway robbers). Perhaps we could take out the beaches, since they are already listed under the Do section? --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 03:49, 6 January 2008 (EST)

Images

Here's a startling statistic: as of 22:28, 3 November 2012 (CET), Wikitravel/Wikivoyage has zero images of Delaware. --Peter ^Talk 22:28, 3 November 2012 (CET)

Do section

It's way too long for a state-level article and shouldn't have any bulleted listings, only a summary that mentions a few highlights. And there should also be a "See" section that's structured in a similar way but concentrates on things to see, rather than activities to do. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:00, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Delaware

Swept in from the pub

Hi, everyone. Do any of you know Delaware well enough to summarize a very long bulleted list an IP user posted in the "Do" section of the article? State-level articles should have prose summaries in "See" and "Do," not bulleted lists, let along such a long one. I posted a message on the IP user's talk page, but I don't feel confident s/he'll come back. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:21, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Would anyone like to work on cleaning this up? I'm tempted to move the long list to this talk page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:48, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Regional subdivision

As the issue came up at talk:USA, I will raise it here, to draw the attention of people who know Delaware better than I do. In short: Is the regional subdivision really needed and would we serve the traveler better if we had all information and all cities and other destinations at one handy place, that being this article? Best wishes Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:52, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

I'm no Delaware expert, having only traveled through the state, but what I would say is: The regional divisions are real, but the state is one of the smallest in the US, and since I don't see how these poor-quality region articles help anyone, I would support merging their content into this article and redirecting. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:33, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

That's what I'd say as well. How long should we wait until a consensus has emerged? Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:00, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

In cases like this, there is some value to having a regional structure in place even before sufficient city articles have been written to fill them out. Delaware is a small state indeed, but its subregions (being counties) are comparable to the lowest-level regions in most other states. Powers ^(talk) 23:44, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

While counties might make administrative sense, there is really a question yet to be answered, whether all counties in existence need their own WV article. If and when Delaware gets enough destinations covered to merit subdivision, we may subdivide. As of now, I don't see any need whatsoever. Best wishes Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:53, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

I think I agree with Hobbitschuster. The three counties divide the state into real regions, and that should be noted in this article, but until there's enough content for it to be justifiable to create 3 separate region articles, I think we shouldn't have those articles. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:33, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

We never resolved this. It was 2-1 in favor of getting rid of the regions for now - not a consensus, to be sure. Does anyone else have any opinions on this? Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:49, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Hey, look! more than a year after the last "we never resolved this" we still haven't resolved this. @Ikan Kekek: @LtPowers: any thoughts on how to proceed? Maybe add more voices to the conversation? Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:48, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

I mean, you can do what you want, but I don't see any point in deleting the county articles only to recreate them again when Delaware has more content. Powers ^(talk) 17:00, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

It's rare that a county makes a usable division for a Wikivoyage region, unless it happens to align with something else (like an individual NYC borough or one large SFO-sized city)... simply because it's the wrong size to cover "7±2 cities". If anything, there are very few cities in Delaware of any size, with Wilmington (Delaware) the one obvious exception. Most of the "cities" listed are small individual villages each named after a small local beach. Instead of splitting this into subregions with a region page for each subregion, perhaps we should be treating this the way the list of villages in Adirondacks was handled - split the city list into three or four "7±2 village" subsections on one lone region page (in this case, the entire state; in Adirondacks, the entire park), then have the next level below this page be the individual city or village articles - with no intervening subregion or county pages. There just isn't enough here to justify multiple levels of regionalisation to subdivide Delaware as this is one of the geographically-tiniest states in the Union, and I don't expect this to change unless the state annexes Alaska. K7L (talk) 17:56, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

"Do" section

This whole long list was in "Do". I put it here in case it's of use, but what's really needed in that section is a much briefer prose overview of the highlights of things to do (not sights like museums) in Delaware.

• Blue Rocks baseball team. The. 

You can gamble 'til your heart's content

• Delaware Park Racetrack and Casino. 
• Dover Downs Racetrack. 
• Harrington Raceway & Casino. 

There's also quite a bit of small town charm, like:

• Delaware's State Fair. 
• Sussex County's Punkin Chunkin, where specially grown pumpkins are shot from devices such as air-powered cannons, trebuchets, catapults, and various other contraptions. The goal is to see which device can hurl a pumpkin the greatest distance, with some currently reaching distances of almost a mile. The carnival atmosphere is themed in pumpkins with more and more attractions added each year.

In addition to the beaches, gambling, and shopping, Delaware has many small and unique historical places and museums. Some things to check out would be:

In New Castle County:

• Buena Vista. 
• City of New Castle Historical Society. 
• Delaware Art Museum. 
• Delaware Center for the Contemporary Arts. 
• Delaware Historical Society. 
• Delaware Museum of Natural History. 
• Delaware Sports Museum & Hall of Fame. 
• Gardens at DE Center for Horticulture
• Greenbank Mill and Philips Farm. 
• Hagley Museum & Library. 
• Historic Houses of Odessa. 
• Iron Hill Museum. 
• New Castle Court House Museum. 
• Old Swedes Church & Hendrickson House Museum. 
• Rockwood Museum & Park. 
• Winterthur Museum & Country Estate. 

In Kent County:

• Air Mobility Command Museum. 
• Biggs Museum of American Art. 
• Bombay Hook National Wildlife Refuge. 
• Delaware Agricultural Museum & Village. 
• Delaware Archaeology Museum. 
• Delaware Public Archives. 
• Delaware State Police Museum. 
• Delaware Visitor Center and Galleries. 
• First State Heritage Park at Dover. 
• John Dickinson Plantation. 
• Johnson Victrola Museum. 
• Monster Racing Excitement. 
• Museum of Small Town Life. 
• Old State House. 
• Parson Thorne Museum. 

In Sussex County:

• Abbott's Mill Nature Center. 
• DiscoverSea Shipwreck Museum. 
• Georgetown Train Station Museum. 
• Lewes Historical Society Complex. 
• Laurel Historical Society. 
• Milford Museum. 
• Nassau Valley Vineyards. 
• Nutter Marvel Carriage Museum. 
• Old Courthouse – Georgetown. 
• Overfalls Lightship Museum. 
• Prime Hook National Wildlife Refuge. 
• Seaford Historical Society Plantation & Museum. 
• Treasures of the Sea Exhibit. 
• Zwaanendael Museum. 

Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:46, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Should the lead explain Delmarva?

The lead section of Eastern Shore (Maryland) explains Delmarva, and points to the other Delmarva articles. Should we do the same here? Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 00:19, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Maybe not the lede, but this article lacks an "understand" section, which is where I'd suggest including information about Delmarva. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:22, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Not that I necessarily disagree, but why not the lead? Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 00:26, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

There is an "Understand" section, below "Cities" and "Other destinations." Why? Because it didn't seem as basic as what's now in the lede, but play around with the lede and "Understand" as you wish. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:29, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

To me, it almost seems more basic to then what's in the lead. The state borders of Delmarva look pretty artificial, not something that would really be that useful for the traveler. Delmarva itself, on the other hand, looks like a natural region, something that would be quite useful and meaningful to the traveler. It'd probably be better if we had a Delmarva article. But since we don't, I'm thinking it'd be best to give the reader very easy access to the other Delmarva articles.

But like you said, let's play with the article and see how it goes. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 00:52, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

I made the edit, but it's clunky. We'll want to smooth out the clunkyness. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 01:03, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

I see your point and agree with your edits. I'm surprised there's no Delmarva article. I think there should be, even if it's the kind of extraregion article that's really a brief explanation and then a disambiguation. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:12, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Who says it has to be a brief explanation and then a disambiguation? That's the way extra-hierarchical regions usually are (I think), but not always. Great Lakes is an (otherwise) normal region article, despite being an EHR. And frankly: I think a Delmarva travel guide would be more useful then a Delaware travel guide. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 01:33, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

I didn't mean to say it had to be like that, I said I'm surprised there's no extraregion article for it even if that's all there was. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:36, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Alright, I'll go ahead and create one. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk)

Here it is. It needs quite a bit of work, but it's a start. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 01:58, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Outline or Useful status?

This is listed as an Outline-status guide? But it looks more Usable then Outline to me, should it be labeled as Usable? Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 04:29, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

According to Wikivoyage:Region guide status, Usable-level regions must have "links to the region's major cities and other destinations (the most important of which must be at usable status or better)... a Get in section describing all of the typical ways to get there, [and] the most prominent attractions are identified with directions." Delaware has the first two of those things but lacks anything at all in the "See" section. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 04:38, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Well, looks like it's still Outline then. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 06:57, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Should the Wilmington area be its own region?

I'm no expert on Delaware. But looking at a map, I'm thinking that counties might not be the best way to divide it. The Wilmington area, the area north of the C&D Canal, looks very different then the area south of the canal. I'm inclined to say that the Wilmington area should be it's own region. Actuality, the Northern Delaware guide doesn't list anything south of the canal. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 07:09, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

At this point, I'd say no, because the existing Northern Delaware article has only 3 places listed in its "Cities" section. Maybe you'd like to improve that article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:15, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Spiting Northern Delaware into two different regions isn't a good idea. I was thinking more like, extend Central Delaware north to the canal. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 07:25, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Are you suggesting reducing the number of regions in the state to two - north of the canal and south of the canal? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:33, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Actuality, after looking the region articles over some more, I'm questioning if there should be any regions. There's very little content in the region articles, and they only list 11 cities total. I think the region articles could be merged into this article. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 07:40, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

I heartily agree, and if you check the discussion above in the #Regional subdivision section, you'll see that all but one person agreed. That's probably a consensus. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:13, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

My count is 4-1 in favor of merging the 3 regions here - not an overwhelming consensus, but it might be the best we'll get for an article like this one, which is of limited interest to many people. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:14, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

I've created a draft of the merged article. I've become convinced that we should merge. There's very little to actuality merge! Aside from the city list, the only content in the region articles is a description of the borders of the regions (the merged article won't need that), a listing for "Killens Pond Water Park" in Central, and a "Jolly Trolley" listing in the South that might just be spam. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 08:42, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

I suppose the first question before we merge is: Is that "Jolly Trolley" listing in the Southern Delaware just spam? Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 08:57, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Based on their website, they're relevant to Rehoboth Beach, not to any regional article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:01, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

And "Rehoboth Beach" already lists Jolly Trolley. What about Killens Pond Water Park, should that be in a city guide? Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 09:06, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

The best city-guide I can find to put the water park in is Dover, but Dover is ten miles away. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 09:36, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

I'll go ahead and abolish the regions. There's not much point in waiting till we figure out what to do with the water park. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 09:47, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

It's OK to have a listing for a water park that's 10 miles out of town. If it's appropriate, it could be put in an "Outside of town" subsection of "Do". Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:28, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Done.