Talk:Münster
Add topicLatest comment: 8 years ago by RJFF in topic "Schloss"
"Schloss"
[edit]I am not an expert but isn't the English word for "Schloss" "Chateau" rather than "palace"? Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:30, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
- Castle? ϒpsilon (talk) 14:31, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
- If I hear "castle" I think of "Burg" which is a purely defensive building that also serves as a residence of a blue blooded person. However, a "Schloss" has little to no defensive value and is mostly ornamental though still a residence. Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:11, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
- Having been to Germany several times and seen a lot of castles and palaces, and claiming no great linguistic abilities in the German language, I would suggest that the best solution to translate "castle" is "Festung". "Schloss" means "palace". Ibaman (talk) 15:10, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
- "Festung" is "fortress" and usually dates to a post gunpowder era that made the design of "Burgen" largely obsolete. Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:13, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
- Always a pleasure to learn from you, Hobbit, my friend. Mo'power to ya! Ibaman (talk) 16:25, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
- Have had this discussion a number of times on Wikipedia. As others commented. Burg is castle, Festung is fortress. Schloss is a little more difficult and really has to be done case by case. Large modern Schloss would be palace, small one manor house, hall could also works as does residences, château is know in the English language and could be used in some cases, in England would also use the term stately home but this not so well known around the world. --Traveler100 (talk) 23:34, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
- I think "château" would be a strange "English" translation for a Schloss, and is best used for places in the French-speaking world (France and, say, parts of Canada). I would use "Palace" for the Schloss Charlottenburg, for example. I'll take Traveler100's word for it that "villa" sometimes works. There might be an analogy with "palazzo" in Italian, which translates best in many cases as "building". Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:43, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
- A third of English words are "French". However for most pronunciation is butchered enough so people don't notice. Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:03, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
- The pronunciation, my friend, is changed, not "butchered", just as when the French borrow English words like "le store" and "le weekend". But you may have missed my point, which is that "château" is not really considered an English word by native English speakers, unlike other French borrow words like beef, pork, veal, boutique, cafe (not normally given an accent in the U.S., by the way, in spite of the rather overzealous policies on this site), chic and route. So using that word for châteaux in France is fine, but to use it as a default word for equivalent buildings in non-Francophone countries could be odd. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:44, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
- You are right about the "butchered" part, of course. Germans are a bit overzealous to pronounce foreign words (especially those of French, English or Italian origin) as "correct" as possible, whereas English has a - let's say "pragmatic" - approach. I was unaware that "chateau" was considered of the "foreign" category unlike other French words like Renaissance (which I have heard pronounced "Ree-neigh-shance" btw) or cafe. At any rate, the words for the (former) residences of the hereditary ruling/upper classes seem to be a tricky thing indeed. Apparently a sidewide policy makes little sense (for reasons you outlined), so a case by case decision is probably best. Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:55, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
- The pronunciation, my friend, is changed, not "butchered", just as when the French borrow English words like "le store" and "le weekend". But you may have missed my point, which is that "château" is not really considered an English word by native English speakers, unlike other French borrow words like beef, pork, veal, boutique, cafe (not normally given an accent in the U.S., by the way, in spite of the rather overzealous policies on this site), chic and route. So using that word for châteaux in France is fine, but to use it as a default word for equivalent buildings in non-Francophone countries could be odd. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:44, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
- A third of English words are "French". However for most pronunciation is butchered enough so people don't notice. Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:03, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
- I think "château" would be a strange "English" translation for a Schloss, and is best used for places in the French-speaking world (France and, say, parts of Canada). I would use "Palace" for the Schloss Charlottenburg, for example. I'll take Traveler100's word for it that "villa" sometimes works. There might be an analogy with "palazzo" in Italian, which translates best in many cases as "building". Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:43, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
- Have had this discussion a number of times on Wikipedia. As others commented. Burg is castle, Festung is fortress. Schloss is a little more difficult and really has to be done case by case. Large modern Schloss would be palace, small one manor house, hall could also works as does residences, château is know in the English language and could be used in some cases, in England would also use the term stately home but this not so well known around the world. --Traveler100 (talk) 23:34, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
- Always a pleasure to learn from you, Hobbit, my friend. Mo'power to ya! Ibaman (talk) 16:25, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
- Palace is defined as "the official residence of a sovereign, archbishop, bishop, or other exalted person" which perfectly fits the Münster Schloss, having been constructed as the official residence of a prince-bishop. --RJFF (talk) 19:11, 14 August 2016 (UTC)