Talk:Mungo National Park

A previous version of this article existed, but it was moved to User:SHB2000/Mungo National Park former to make way for a move from SHB2000's userspace. None of this article contains anything from the old article

New banner

I've cropped a much more interesting banner, which actually shows the park's heritage. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:01, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Banner 0

Banner 1

Yeah, change the banner on the page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:05, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

I am going to put this change on hold though, since I've started an article about this park fresh in my userspace. I'm going here next month though, so I hope to take a good pic (although it's summer, and the sunlight...) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:09, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek: I've moved a version out of my userspace, which contains the new banner. I'm not sure whether I'm allowed to delete the old version moved to my userspace, but none of the content in this new article contains anything from the old article (all info from the NSW Parks website) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:42, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

It seems to me that you could safely delete that version, then, but it wouldn't hurt to get a second opinion. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:58, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek: would it make sense to move this into a project space page, just incase? LPfi might know more on whether that page can be deleted or not (on the copyright side of things), but if it weren't, would the projectspace idea work? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:18, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

Legally, if the new article isn't a derivative work of the old one (in the legal sense, whatever that may mean), no attribution is needed. However, I find keeping as much history as possible is valuable for its own sake, for newcomers and for research. Moreover, deleting the work of a contributor clearly says their contributions were deemed unwelcome. I'd like to be able to point to my contributions, even if they have been superseded. Being able to trust that the Wikimedia projects keep the history frees me from having to keep my own archive.

Even when starting fresh, there is usually no need to delete the former versions (or keeping them deleted, as in this case). The edit comment "the Mungo NP article needs urgent TLC, that it may as well be better to start it off fresh" and the shrunk size clearly tell what happened, although knowing you didn't copy pieces from the former article's history requires research (but if deleted, that research is made impossible, which in my opinion isn't any better). If you want to point that out, you can do it on the talk page.

Here only two history entries of the old article overlap with the new one: "update price per NSW Parks website" (26 October 2021‎ 09:57) and the move. Leaving the former in the history intermingled with your new article's history would make the first diffs confusing for non-experts. If the old article had been moved to a subpage directly it'd been OK to just leave it there, but now the history and the logs point to the version in your user page, which might get deleted.

I'd lean towards moving the former history to here, except perhaps the two last entries. The page move entry of the old article is the most confusing one, as it hints that any intermediate version might be from either. On the other hand, it missing makes it seem as if you started your new article in mainspace – I don't know whether an entry much later helps much, though.

–LPfi (talk) 10:22, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

I would generally be against a history move, since for a couple of reasons.

1. I usually use this to keep track of what articles I've started. If it's merged, it no longer shows an accurate measure
2. I'm not sure whether this one is a "deleting the work of a contributor clearly says their contributions were deemed unwelcome" here. This article was another case of leaving it to "Someone Else", and this was also started by a Wikitravel user who has started numerous articles, with only one edit by them.
3. It's also likely to confuse people looking at the edit history, as you said, particularly the page move. Some of the edit histories of other articles dating back to WT are confusing as, let's not make this more confusing. And X Tools will be more confused when showing the stats of a page (which I regularly use, and this might hamper the ability of improving this article)

On the other hand, I'm also not deleting that old version in my userspace. And so I'd prefer leaving things as it is, without deleting anything. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:51, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Photography

I remember seeing an odd clause in Australian law, that forbid taking photographs for commercial use in (some?) Australian parks. What about this park? It should be mentioned, and probably explained in a photography subsection of Australia#Do. –LPfi (talk) 08:03, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

I'm not too sure about this particular law to be honest since I'm not a huge photographer. However, according to this,

The Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Regulations 2000 (Cth) includes provisions restricting the taking and use for commercial purposes of photographs in Commonwealth Reserves, including Kakadu National Park, Australian National Botanic Gardens, Christmas Island National Park, Norfolk Island National Park, Commonwealth Marine Parks and Reserves. To take photographs for commercial purposes in a Commonwealth Reserve, you should contact the reserve for a permit. Conditions may be imposed on the taking of the photographs. If in breach of the limitations, you may be fined and required to surrender all copies of the photographs and the camera used to take them. For further information contact the relevant Commonwealth Reserve.

Thankfully this is not one of the six national parks managed by Parks Australia so it doesn't apply. But doing some more research on this, looking at this, "Film makers and photographers wanting to use a national park or reserve for commercial filming or photography - that is, for sale, hire or profit - require a licence.". So while it's not prohibited, commercial photographs require a license. Will add that in. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:14, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Addresses

Quick question, is "Mungo" needed in all the addresses in 'See'? Normally, we'd just put the street address and leave out the locality if it's the same as the article title.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:00, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Not sure. I usually just add the locality name for park articles because usually they fall into different localities but this one doesn't seem so. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:24, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

I would think it's probably redundant info unless there's other localities in the park besides Mungo.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 23:33, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Okay, I'll remove them. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:36, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Done. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:38, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Mungo National Park joint management program

I'm wondering if it's worth mentioning the program in the understand section. From my understanding it functions similar to Uluru, Kakadu or Booderee. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:27, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Mungo Loop Tour: question and suggested improvements

Looking at the official guide, I think there's more we can add to make this a Star-quality section; I'm thinking a mini itinerary within a destination article. Are there signs pointing the way round? If not, which is the best map to use? Then we can briefly describe the route taken, mentioning the specific landmarks passed and noting typical stopping points: there are short walks, toilets and picnic sites en-route, and possibly even litter bins :P For these, you could use coloured markers (i.e. not 'See' or 'Do' but 'red', to avoid marker duplication) and possibly even a second map that just shows the loop and red POIs.

As noted in my last edit summary on the article, there's nothing I can see on the trail's official website that suggests you can only tackle this loop in one direction. A quick google did bring up two Tripadvisor comments suggesting this to be the case, but I wouldn't trust them alone to be accurate. @SHB2000: Have you been round this loop before to confirm the one-way thing?--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:39, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

I can confirm it's one way, unless it's one of the two reasonsː

1. You are going with a tour guide to the Walls of China tour and then heading back to the visitor centre
2. Some part of the road is closed, and so you need to turn back somewhere and that's when it becomes two way

Apart from that, it's a one way road. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 21:45, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

OK, in that case you definitely need to write in the article which way round you're supposed to go, because the official website and map don't do this.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:04, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Done. I realised that I'd forgotten to answer your question on "Are there signs pointing the way round?" and yes, from what I can remember, there were signs pointing the way around thruout the track. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:25, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Great. At some point, I'll carry on looking through the article.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:16, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Static map

I tried to make a hand-drawn static map but miserably failed because Wikivoyage:How to draw static maps isn't very clear enough. I just used instant download, but if anyone can help make a detailed static map, it'd be greatly appreciated :-) --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:33, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Looks better than I can do! The main issues is the details and labels are too faint, but it looks fine (if incomplete) when zoomed in.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:58, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

This one was just a downloaded one off OSM (under a free license). I tried another one (which you can see below), looks much better than by first one but still too faint. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:45, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Red Top boardwalk

Currently listed in both 'See' and 'Do', I think it's definitely more of a 'See'. The activity is minimal, and even the description is all about what you can see (the beautiful colours and light, possible wildlife). It would make sense to merge the two entries together into the 'See' listing, IMO. Any objection? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:58, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Sure. Go ahead. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 21:11, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Done. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:55, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Map

I attempted to make a static map, and this was my first static map. Does this look good or is the quality too low? --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:30, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

The quality is fine, but the individual symbols need to be larger. Maybe you could also make the circuit road red, like it is on the dynamic map? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:21, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Still not sure how to change the colours of the road :-( I'm still an inkscape newbie. I could however try to fix the size of the icons. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:03, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

The icon size is the only issue affecting legibility for me. The colour thing was just a suggested improvement, and certainly not an essential one.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:18, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

I'd like to learn how to add the colours though. It'd certainly help for region articles, perhaps only if Wikivoyage:How to draw static maps was only informative.

And to the icons, I'm on it... Hopefully I'll finish it soon. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:21, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Btw, we should totally start rolling out those rints in listings across WV, particularly the wheelchair-accessible one. I've been thinking of suggesting that for years, but never got around to it. It might require a community discussion, however (you know how much we love those).--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:23, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Oh yes, I'd like to have one of those. I think those existed as separate templates (still used on Yosemite National Park) created by Traveler100 and Wrh2 until I added them to rint.

And to the icon sizes: Done. I could increase them a bit more though, which doesn't seem that hard after a first attempt. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:50, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Much better. The three on the left are still a bit small. Could you add the visitor centre as well? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:52, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Sure. Will do tonight when I have access to my other computer. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:35, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Done. Also just realised that I'd completely forgotten to add Zanci homestead site so that's now on the map. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:58, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Fire bans

How do you know whether a fire ban is in effect, do you need to ask? What is the difference between a fire ban and a total fire ban? Are those the wording used? Not having a campfire during a total fire ban seems kind of mild, if you cannot even use your ethanol-fuelled stove during a normal ban. –LPfi (talk) 14:38, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

@LPfi Apologies for the late reply. To that, you just need to check local news alerts or in this case, it can be found here. The New South Wales Rural Fire Service website is also another good tool. I'll add it into the article in a minute. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:57, 19 April 2022 (UTC)