Talk:Novi Sad

Wow! Great article about a really interesting place-- glad to see this area getting coverage as it's getting more and more popular! (WT-en) Majnoona 14:35, 28 Mar 2005 (EST)

I find this quite inacurate Serbians often confuse the two words in English because gostionica means both hotel and restaurant.

In Serbian language both words exist Hotel ( Hotel ) and Restaurant ( Restoran ) word "gostionica" is rearly used, altrought it is true that gostionica can be Hotel or Restaurant

Acctualy, "gostionica" is more of a tavern :) and I have never met any Serb mixing it with a word "hotel" ...

 "Gostionica" is an archaic word, I'm removing it the article.

Image copyvios?

I just copied in two images from the "Petrovaradin Fortress" article, which is being redirected to this one (per vfd discussion). Other images from that article were found to be copyvios, and while I have been unable to find evidence that these two are, the possibility can't be excluded, particularly in view of the way the "long" photo is formatted. OTOH, they're useful for the article. Can someone do a bit more copyvio checking, and if they're found to be such, take the indicated actions? -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 14:41, 6 January 2007 (EST)

Advertising

Swept in from the pub

Should Wikivoyage be a place for this? I think not. That is just pure advertising, 'cause most of the listed are wildly unknown to Novi Sad inhabitants. I myself live there, and, after seeing your article, I did a poll on pizza in "Dottore per la pizza", and, well, I got only 31/111 people actually liking the pizza there. Later, I also did a poll on Amigos Chicken and Konoba. In Amigos Chicken, I actually saw two foreigners, but the result, anyway, was 26/95 marked it as good. Konoba was, again, with no surprise whatsoever, marked as 8/123, and that, my dear colleagues, completely destroys the sentences: "Delicious fast-food experts (especially this one, which has a quite different meaning in English :D)... Awesome staff, very tasty food."... (if you are wondering, what the hell was I doing, asking people about their meals, don't, I do that for a living) - Stefan ^(Parolu!) 15:43, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Please plunge forward, feel free to trim down the entries there and list only those listings that is of interest to the travellers. --Saqib (talk) 16:11, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Also, see Wikivoyage:Don't tout for some relevant information about dealing with promotional language or potential advertising in articles. -- Ryan • (talk) • 16:28, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

I strongly agree with both comments above, but I'll add something.

A complication is that a poll of local residents may not tell you much about pizza that travellers might want. e.g. at Zhuhai#Pizza we have listings for a dozen places then "Pizza can also be found in other local restaurants, including a local chain called Pizza Coffee, but the pizza is not very appealing to Western tastes." For China, the difference in taste is sometimes huge; my guess is that it would be far smaller for Novi Sad, but still perhaps not zero. Pashley (talk) 17:05, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

You polled 95, 111 or 123 citizens and asked them their opinion of various restaurants and the general feeling among them was that the food wasn't any good. Does that make them right and the original author wrong?

In point of fact, there is no such thing as an objectively good or an objectively bad restaurant. In many cases, and particularly in listing blurbs, what our site deals in is opinion. That's why many principles and procedures that are near and dear to the heart of Wikipedia, such as citing sources and original research being off limits, can't apply here at Wikivoyage.

I read the reviews in question. Usually it's obvious when the author is a tout, but I saw no evidence of that in those listings. If you, or even many people you know, don't like the restaurant, perhaps you should insert a caveat into the blurb listing some of the place's weaknesses (while maintaining a balance between positive and negative comments, thus avoiding making it a negative review). But my personal policy is to never delete a listing outright unless the place has closed. Because in the end, what do I know? I'm just one guy, and who am I to say that the original author is wrong?

The thing to remember is that no one, and no group, is the be-all-and-end-all authority as to whether a restaurant is good or bad. Obviously if an editor who wasn't a tout bothered to come to Wikivoyage and add a positive review of a restaurant, there's someone out there who thinks the restaurant is good. What makes his opinion inferior? Numbers? I don't buy that.

-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:41, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

I wouldn't object if you'd just tone down those listings a bit, as per your experiences there, and add a few others that you think are great :-) Indeed, listings often reflect a personal experience at a specific moment. Some humble considerations of another's view are good, but listings are subject to change. That's fine. However, the main point is not to criticize current ones, but to focus on finding ever better places. So please, as a Novi Sad guy, point us to the hotspots where all the locals go! ;-) JuliasTravels (talk) 19:47, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Stefan, since you and most of the rest of the people you polled in Novi Sad think this place sucks, please delete the listing. Subjectivity of opinion is not the issue here. To be "objective," we'd have to list everything indiscriminately, and one of Wikivoyage's non-goals is to be an undifferentiated listing service (traditionally called "Yellow Pages" in many places). This is an avowedly subjective guide and should not list non-notable restaurants or pizzerias that not only suck, but suck according to a consensus of locals. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:54, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek - to quote from Wikivoyage:Avoid negative reviews:

"If a destination has only a few reviews (or a few accommodation options), and some are negative, do not delete them — some information is better than none."

If we regard the people Stefan questioned as analogous to "reviewers", which I think is fair, the above clause would apply. 32 out of 112 people "reviewed" Dottore per la Pizza positively; 26 out of 96 "reviewed" Amigos Chicken positively (in both cases, including the original author among the totals). Those are not majorities, but they're not unanimous condemnation either.

-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 05:08, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Novi Sad has a long list of restaurants. It's not in the interest of travelers for this guide to list any which most locals who were polled dislike. If we listed every business that a few people liked, this guide would become a Yellow Pages. Someone likes every place that's in business, right? Or at least they're OK enough with it to patronize it. I really couldn't more strongly disagree with your reasoning here, on the basis that the interest of the traveler and non-goals guidelines trump the argument that if most locals think a place is mediocre or worse in a large city with lots of listings, it should remain listed. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:20, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

History

Recently I added the history section that was separated into different subsections like Ancient history, Founding of Novi Sad, Bombing in 1999, etc. Each subsection had only a sentence or two but I think these give a good overview of the history and allow people to easily jump to the part they are interested in. Is there a reason why the subsections were removed and merged into one section? Should there be more than a couple of sentences to warrant a subsection? --NinaZizakic (talk) 09:50, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

You're talking about this edit, right? I do feel like in that version, there are too many really brief sections, which makes it harder and not easier to read. (For whatever it's worth, I wrote the "Understand" section of Manhattan/East Village, and you can see how long I made the subsections.) The other issue is that another user was concerned that perhaps this text might have been copied from somewhere else. Was it? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:14, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I'm talking about that one! Fair enough, I am pretty new to this. I have taken some (parts of) sentences from different sources (mostly Wikipedia page of Novi Sad and Visit Novi Sad page, however I have compressed it to a much shorter text. (I know that I get bored and stop reading a History section on a Wikivoyage page if it's too long.) --NinaZizakic (talk) 14:28, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

That's cool. It's always a good practice to mention your sources in an edit summary (type it in the "Summary" box below your edit screen) and say that you compressed content from those pages. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:58, 18 February 2018 (UTC)