Wikivoyage talk:Welcome, locals

A couple of comments

Overall I think this looks very good—a useful and readable resource. I have two quibbles about the "Dos and Don'ts", though.

First, the bullet point about the "Get in" section is technically accurate, but I worry it might give the wrong impression. While the focus is supposed to be on getting in, my understanding is that the section should give information about getting out too when this is different from getting in. (For instance, the description of the airport's public transit connections should mention an option for checking your luggage early on the way to the airport.) Maybe this bullet point can be rephrased somehow.

Second, I think "a list of 'dodgy' neighbourhoods" is useful, as long as it's not excessively long. I'd say we should encourage local editors to add this kind of information. —Granger (talk · contribs) 23:37, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Point taken about dodgy neighbourhoods, but often articles do seem to exaggerate risks beyond reason, possibly at the expense of information about real safety issues. Endless cases of knife crime notwithstanding, I live in a very safe country within a very safe continent, so perhaps my attitude is a bit naive.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 23:58, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

I suspect your attitude is affected by where you live. I find explanations of dangerous neighborhoods very useful when traveling in the Americas and often find myself wishing that articles would go into more detail about them. I do agree with you that risks are sometimes exaggerated—a neighborhood that's a little dangerous by local standards in the rural Midwest might be nothing to a seasoned international traveler.

How about:

Don't go over the top in the Stay safe section. Non-obvious safety tips and a list of dodgy neighbourhoods are very useful, but be careful not to exaggerate. There's also no need to remind travelers of obvious advice that's true anywhere, like wearing a seatbelt and avoiding bar fights.

—Granger (talk · contribs) 00:21, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Also, an idea for another "Don't": don't list ordinary schools that are of little or no tourist interest. This is something I see a lot—articles that list the local elementary schools or community colleges, which are useful for people moving to the destination but not for short-term visitors. —Granger (talk · contribs) 23:47, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Granger, I disagree that there should be any information whatsoever about leaving a place in "Get in"; any such information should be provided as needed in "Go next". I think this is developing nicely. Shall we add a request to provide information about cool venues for music, dance, theater, art shows and the like and mention something about which kinds of schools we do want listings for? Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:08, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

It seems to me it's more useful to keep all the information about the airport in one place than to explain how to leave the airport in one section and how to get to the airport in a different section, but I recognize there's room for reasonable disagreement. I agree with the other suggestions. —Granger (talk · contribs) 01:22, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Aside from the aforementioned early checkin, how often are the arrangements for getting to the airport all that different from getting from it? Or maybe you'd just like to rephrase the sentence how you want it, and we'll go from there? Same goes for Ikan, you're welcome to edit the draft as you see fit. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:06, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

How about this? —Granger (talk · contribs) 16:32, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

If you're happy with that, I'm happy too.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:40, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

My knowledge is that in the U.S. for example, it's very mixed, but crime is generally concentrated in city areas. In country areas, I don't think there is much crime. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 01:24, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

However, I prefer the proposed wording over the current wording. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 01:25, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

I've refined the wording slightly and implemented it in the article for now. Of course I'm open to continuing the discussion. —Granger (talk · contribs) 04:15, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Looks OK to me. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 18:54, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

No problem with either wording, really. I'm not sure where the discussion of crime in city vs. rural areas came from, but I'm willing to bet that there are quite a few rural areas in the U.S. with much higher crime rates per capita than New York City, and any comment about cities as locations of street crimes has to take Japan into account. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:30, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Well said, i think this is a perfect introduction for beginners. in my opinion, i'd say that this article, with a few adjustments, should move onto the mainspace. Arep Ticous 07:39, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Well, if there are no further amendments forthcoming, shall I move it into mainspace? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:43, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Sure. Guideline or policy? --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 17:26, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Umm, I'm gonna say neither? Pretty sure pages like WV:Welcome, newcomers are classed as help pages. This will be similar. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:28, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Okay. I'd say, as I can see it's not in the Wikivoyage space, that it might as well be moved there. By the way, it might be worth adding the mention of this page at Template:Welcome and related welcome pages. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 19:52, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

As you can see, I've moved the page. You may, of course, want to recreate the redirect if you wish. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 19:54, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for doing the legwork. But in future, when I say I'm going to move something from my userspace, can you wait for me to do it? I planned to give the others a chance to give their thoughts on whether it was ready. Now it's all done, there's no point undoing it, but just for the future, I'd appreciate it if you hold fire.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:10, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Okay. My apologies, then. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 20:16, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

No apologies needed. You can't read my mind :) As I say, it's just a preference for the future.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:19, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

I should have realized when you said, "if there are no further amendments forthcoming, shall I move it into mainspace" that you were asking the the group in general and you wanted their approval before going ahead. Anyway, it's all over now, one way or another. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 20:21, 25 July 2019 (UTC)