Talk:Armenia

Formatting and language conventions For articles about Armenia, please use the 24-hour clock to show times, e.g. 09:00-12:00 and 18:00-00:00. Please show prices in this format: 100 dram and not AMD 100 or Դ100. Please use American spelling (color, labor, traveled, realize, center, analog, program).

This is not a political forum; please restrict all discussion here to discussion about how best to improve the Armenia article. Off topic debates, political rants, nonsense poetry, etc. will all be removed as it is added. This is a travel guide and political disputes are utterly irrelevant except insofar as they directly bear upon the experience of a traveller. See Wikivoyage:Be fair#Political disputes for further guidelines.

For future reference the Project:CIA World Factbook 2002 import can be found at Talk:Armenia/CIA World Factbook 2002 import.

Research Links

• http://www.cilicia.com
• http://www.armeniapedia.org/index.php?title=Rediscovering_Armenia_Guidebook-_Introduction -- many facts that we may be willing to have here. Not sure about compatibility of their license with ours, though. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 15:39, 27 February 2007 (EST)

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Talk Link

Guys, I don't think that we should link to a commercial site for a book, right?

Armenia Regions

Some Armenian made stubs of all the marzer, putting them at the name without "marz" (e.g. Lori Marz is at Lori). Should they be moved? Do we need marz articles, or should we have larger regions? -(WT-en) phma 10:18, 21 Jul 2004 (EDT)

A map to illustrate the regions proposal

Here's my idea for a Regions Hierarchy for Armenia:

• Central Armenia/Yerevan Region
  • Armavir
  • Aragatsotn
  • Kotayk
  • Ararat Marz
  • Yerevan
• Lake Sevan Region
  • Gegharkunik
• Northern Armenia
  • Shirak
  • Lori
  • Tavush
• Southern Armenia
  • Vayots Dzor
  • Syunik
• Nagorno-Karabakh

I think we should change the Marz articles into redirects to the new traveler-oriented regions. The one thing I feel less confident about is where to put the Aragatsotn content. It could fit as easily into Northern Armenia as Central Armenia. Or it could have some claim to be its own region I suppose. I will upload a regions map shortly to illustrate, and I'll wait a bit to see if other editors have input. --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald ^Talk 22:02, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Well, it appears I'm the only person watching this page, so I'll just plunge forward and arrange this my way. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 20:40, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

A bit late, but it is a very solid breakdown of the country. I would have personally done it slightly different - I'd move Shirak out of Northern and into a Northwestern along with Aragatsotn and Armavir, then move Sevan into Central. My main reason is that people get to Shirak via Aragatsotn, and combine the sites along the way into one - whereas Shirak is almost never visited via Lori Marz. Sevan, which has comparatively little to see, and that is mostly near the NW corner of it anyway, could be lumped in with Central... (WT-en) Raffikojian 22:13, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

Anyone mind if I make that change in regions? I don't think it will be too hard to make - so if I have the time I think it would be nice to reorganize sooner rather than later. (WT-en) Raffikojian 16:20, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

Respect section

This section currently seems to assume that the reader is an "ordinary American", this should probably be changed.

I edited down the sentence, which was awkward anyway, but in the future feel free to plunge forward and edit the text yourself. Thanks (WT-en) Maj 08:56, 12 June 2007 (EDT)

Stay Safe Section

There seems to be a strong desire to portray Armenia as a very safe country and the US Embassy is part of this. In reality its nothing like as safe as people might like to think or hope. both the EU office and the Embassy warn of the dangers from muggings and also scams involving ATM machines where you enter your PIN etc but the money does not appear.

If you can fix it without complaining about propaganda or introducing first-person experiences, that would help -- (WT-en) Colin 10:52, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

I know you will claim I am biased, but I've actually LIVED there the last ten years, and met countless travelers and expats. Yerevan is a small town, and gossip - especially something like you're describing travels VERY VERY fast. In all those years, I cannot recount more than 2 instances in which a foreigner was attempted to be robbed walking the streets - one of which was unsuccessful. So even if my memory is very faulty, I think it is safe to say your experience was exceptionally rare, and there is no big conspiracy theory at work. It IS a very safe country. Period. If that begins to change, it will change, but for now at least, it is true and your crusade to portray it is very dangerous doesn't make sense. How many others have reported this? Who is ignoring them? The police confusion, I suspect, is because they'd never been called for such a thing. It IS a safe city. (WT-en) Raffikojian 17:32, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

Trans-Caucasus Itinerary

I am interested in assisting in creating a 12-15 day trans-Caucasus itinerary with Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Armenia. Would anyone be interested in assisting me with this? (WT-en) Cupcakecommander 02:47, 31 July 2007 (EDT)

"The Well Known ATM Scams" ?

Can those who state that there are "well known ATM scams" provide some prooflinks of this "well known" facts? I've graduated University with degree in ICT in Banks and Finances, with many of my classmates working in Banks, and especialy in ArCa (Armenian Card) system which is used by local banks for providing Visa, MasterCard services and I've never heard of issues. Google also brings only Wikivoyage when you search for "Yerevan ATM scam". If such problem would exist, it would also affect MasterCards. And as that sentences concetrate on "Visa cards" I suppose, it was someone's bad experience, which he thinks or tries to present is a general issue. All ATM's in Armenia are equiped with cameras, which should fix at least 3 moments, when you come close to ATM, when you put in your card, and when you take out the money. So it's also easy to check if there was a problem. --(WT-en) Xelgen 10:50, 17 June 2009 (EDT)

I have been living in USA for several years now.

I came to realize that Yerevan is one of the safest places in the globe.

Now about ATM scams. Anywhere in the world card users info are at risk but again in Armenia there are 1000 times more safe than in USA or EU. No one`s identity has been compromised in Armenia.

As of five years ago, the U.S. State Dept. singled out Yerevan as a place where the danger of ATM scams was especially high. I have no idea whatsoever whether that's still true. I found it indeed a very safe city—except for crossing the street ;) --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 23:47, 15 April 2010 (EDT)

"Sleep" Section

How do you all feel about the mention of specific hotels at the national level? I generally delete all such listings. The only reason I'm reluctant to summarily delete them all in this case is that considerable effort has gone into a coherent and informative overview. However, I think it's a slippery slope, and that no specific names of sleeping accommodations should be mentioned at this level. What do you all think? (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 06:23, 28 October 2011 (EDT)

The prose is a good start for the Sleep section of this country. But indeed, specific names of hotel listings should go. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 07:00, 28 October 2011 (EDT)

Governmental system of Armenia

Is a country with contested elections indeed accurately described as a "Dictatorship"? I believe we have some polemical or perhaps nationalistically biased editing here. It seems much more accurate to describe Armenia as a troubled democracy than an actual dictatorship, and "Republic" is a reasonable short-hand, given that a long explanation of recent history is beyond the scope of an information box. Explain your edits, please, or give up. Also, if you think it's important to add some recent history of political conflict within Armenia, go ahead and insert it in the "Understand" section. Thanks. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 15:27, 6 May 2012 (EDT)

Previous banner

--Nick ^talk 23:31, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

More banners

They're all good, but I think the 2nd one wins, and I'd rate them in order of decreasing quality: 2, 3, 1. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:58, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Same with me. All are good, but I think the middle one is best. AHeneen (talk) 04:59, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Wording of the genocide paragraph

I just reverted an IP's change in the wording of the Armenian genocide with the request to establish a consensus first, see this diff While I have no objections to a rewording and some expansion in on the topic, I don't read a denial in the current paragraph. The remark that Turkey denies the genocide and that this is a reason for lasting hostility, is merely informative, imho. The fact that the edit summary states it is a denial (and that the existing paragraph is biased), raises concerns. The fact that this is very political matter should encourage some consensus before dismissing the existing text as biased. I would like to hear some more opinions. JuliasTravels (talk) 21:19, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, I thought that was a strange remark in the edit summary. That said, if the IP user's version is more accurate, I'd be happy to go with it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:40, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

I don't think the version is inaccurate. I do wonder, however, if the more direct and detailed definition of the genocide and how it was conducted is more helpful for travel purposes. I don't mind some more background, but the original info seems to give a bit more insight in the political background, which I think is useful when travelling in the region. JuliasTravels (talk) 09:49, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

That sounds like it calls for a combination of the two versions. I thought the edit was very clear, and I learned something by reading it. I knew something about the methods of genocide because I have a friend whose grandfather was marched into the Syrian Desert and managed to survive long enough to get to Jerusalem, but I didn't know all those details. It's not super-long, either. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:25, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

It is, however, a direct copy of (parts of) the Wikipedia article. If you're willing to rephrase it to include the extra information, I have no objections. JuliasTravels (talk) 11:15, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

I really don't have the time right now, nor really the inclination, but ideally, it sounds like that would be the best of both worlds, if we can properly use such an expression when discussing a horrific genocide. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:18, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Correct currency indicator

Dear all, considering Yerevan got 39 "AMD" and only 17 "dram", I assume we use "AMD" as currency indicator. Hence, I will plunge forward and align all mentioning of prices in the way of AMD55.66 and thus also convert "xx.x dram" to "AMDxx.x". Cheers Ceever (talk) 22:54, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Hold on. This is something on which it would be good to have a discussion. WV:$ provides this advice:

"The three letter ISO 4217 currency codes, like "PHP" for the peso or "USD" for the US dollar, should always be mentioned in the "Money" section of a country article since travellers may need them for doing funds transfers or for checking exchange rates online. In general they should not be used either in listings or in text, but exceptions can be made as needed to avoid ambiguity."

The symbol, Դ, could cause display problems, as we found out at Talk:Bangladesh#Bangladeshi_taka. In other cases where the currency name is shorts like the Thai baht, our policy is to use the full name of the currency. I think "dram" is short as unambiguous enough to use on its own. Ground Zero (talk) 18:12, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

I have posted a notice requesting input from others at Wikivoyage:Requests for comment. Ground Zero (talk)

Ok, AMD seems not preferable. Though, I am in favour of Դ, due to its shortness. I have seen it in Armenia very often times, and kind of remember they even sometimes use the world "dollar" instead of "dram". But I can ask again, I am in contact with someone from tourism. And even if it doesn't display right, it seems pretty obvious what it means. We also use ₩, ₪ and ₹ ... so no reason to stop now. Ceever (talk) 14:05, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

This is a dilemma: Դ would be the best to use if that is what travellers will see in Armenia, but not the best if they can't see it on their mobiles. I'll ask in the pub if someone knows about this, or if anyone is aware of problems with Դ. Ground Zero (talk) 20:31, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

No-one there seems to have any problems with Դ, but let's give it a few more days before we start changing over. Ground Zero (talk) 19:21, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

I've made the change at WV:$ to designate Դ as the preferred symbol for the dram. Ground Zero (talk) 12:20, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

I am still awaiting feedback from some Armenians on that subject, so please all be cautious on a general overhaul. Sorry. Ceever (talk) 13:11, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Okay. I'll hold off. I have also found a key for ֏ in the box at the bottom of the edit page, which is very useful. Ground Zero (talk) 13:14, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

One answer so far (from TripAdvisor): "The right way is 5500 AMD (armenian dram ) , in oral spech we say 5500 drams in english ! We never say dollars meaning our dram :)" Ceever (talk) 20:47, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

So, one more answer: "and yes, we say xxx dram. [...] Best Regards [...] Chair, State Tourism Committee of Armenia" Sorry for the long wait. So, I guess we must go ahead with dram. I will take care of it in the coming days. Thanks for the patience, Ceever (talk) 08:21, 25 September 2017 (UTC) Ceever (talk) 08:21, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for following up on this. I'm on the road now, so may not have much time for editing, but will come back to this when I have time. Cheers. Ground Zero (talk) 08:48, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

Getting in: Russian Visa

I can't find any sources to prove that Armenian visas are valid for Russia. Does anybody else have any more info? Or should this paragraph be removed? --JosephDB (talk) 16:17, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

Sounds rather unlikely, it's not mentioned in Russia#Get in. And supposedly to "facilitate land transit to visitors" when the countries don't even share a land border... I'd say remove it. Ypsilon (talk) 16:58, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

 : Will remove. Couldn't find anything on it on the Russian Embassy websites, Armenian Embassy, or any other website. --JosephDB (talk) 18:26, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

Recent edits October 2023

The recent edits by RaffiKojian seem problematic. I have done some clean-up, but e.g. the changes about the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict remain. The section needed updating, but I am not sure that the new version is fair. I think it needs some more eyes. –LPfi (talk) 12:56, 14 October 2023 (UTC)