Talk:Iran/Archive 2004-2011

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

What's the situation for women travellers in Iran? Do all women need to wear a veil? (WT-en) Guaka 11:59, 29 Jan 2004 (EST)

Here's somebody's travellogue. Of course I don't know how accurate it is but it does have the ring of truth: ://travel.independent.co.uk/low_res/story.jsp?story=62976&host=2&dir=42
Only females who're older than 9 ... 217.219.229.3 16:16, 1 September 2006 (EDT)

What does "Turkic and Turkic dialects" mean? Turkic is not a single language, it's a subfamily including Turkish (which is also listed), Gagauz, Tuvan, and Azeri. -(WT-en) phma 23:02, 28 Apr 2004 (EDT)


This is a great start! I'm really glad to see this area covered! (WT-en) Majnoona 14:13, 1 Oct 2004 (EDT)

Farsi -> Persian

I rolled back the change from Farsi to Persian. I don't know why the name should be changed, or why it's "mistaken" to call the language "Farsi". --(WT-en) Evan 17:24, 17 Feb 2005 (EST)

Because "Persian" is the English word for the language. It's the ISO name for the language too. It's Iranian Academy for Persian Language's choice for the name of the language in English. Enough reasons? --Behdad Esfahbod.

I thought it's trivial enough that doesn't need any discussion. See ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language, and ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farsi

Generally speaking, we use the most common English word for stuff here. Official Names mean little. The talk page on Wikipedia strongly suggests that Farsi is the most commonly used English word for the language. -- (WT-en) Colin 16:59, 18 Feb 2005 (EST)
I don't see the talk page on Wikipedia "strongly suggest that Farsi is the most commonly used English word for the language". Moreover, I'm a native Persian speaker, Iranian, active in this field. (WT-en) Behdad 05:14, 21 Feb 2005 (EST)

As the billingual, Iranian-born guy that wrote most of these references to "Farsi" that seem to be in question, I guess I should add my two cents. It's true that Farsi and Persian have subtly different meanings. "Farsi" is used to describe the modern language of Persian, which developed from around the Tenth Century. So Behdad is correct to point out that "Farsi" is not the academically correct name for all forms of Iran's language. (It would be like distinguishing modern English from all forms of English). However, as far as everyday usage and references are concerned, "Farsi" seems to find more favour among Iranians themselves. This is especially true when travelling through the country, since Iranians always refer to their own language as fārsi, and never pārsi or irāni. -- (WT-en) Allyak 21:08, 21 Feb 2005 (EST)

Yes and the Greeks refer to their langauge as Hellenic and Germans refer to theirs as Deutsch, yet when they write in English they use the proper terms. If academic accuracy doesn't cut it, and common usage is important, Persian is and has been the most common term to refer to the language. See BBCPersian.com, CIA Iran page, etc. (WT-en) Kaveh 11:02, 27 Mar 2005 (EST)

No more "farsi" guys ! that's Persian ! here's some articles on this issue:


  • //heritage.chn.ir/en/Article/?id=88
    //www.persiandirect.com/articles/2004/july/id_00001.htm
    //www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Languages/persian_not_farsi.htm
    //www.iran-heritage.org/interestgroups/language-letter9.htm
    //persiangulfonline.org/articles/farsi.htm
    //www.payvand.com/news/03/dec/1083.html
    //www.iran-heritage.org/interestgroups/iranorpersia1.htm
    //www.payvand.com/news/05/dec/1063.html
    //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_announcement_of_the_Academy_of_Persian_Language_and_Literature
    //www.iranian.com/Features/Dec97/Persian/
    //www.persiandirect.com/articles/2004/july/id_00003.htm
    //students.washington.edu/irina/persianword/tt.htm [in English]
    //www.persian-language.org/Group/Article.asp?ID=173 [ in Persian]
    //www.iran-heritage.org/interestgroups/iranorpersian.jpg [in Persian]
    //www.sharghnewspaper.com/821108/litera.htm#s22653 [in Persian]
    //www.sharghnewspaper.com/841010/html/societ.htm#s349176 [in Persian]

217.219.229.3 15:52, 1 September 2006 (EDT)


ATTENTION: This is not an encyclopedia. This is a travel guide. Thank you for your amazing and wonderful list of references, but we don't much care.
Well, we sort of care, because it took you some work, and we're glad you put the effort into it.
What we don't really care about is getting into a big old academic argument about what to call the language spoken in Iran in English. What we care about is helping the traveller get by in Iran. Therefore the only thing that counts about the name of the language is whether that name will help or hinder folks from finding out more about how to learn the language. It seems to me that in most of Western Europe or North America if you want to learn the language spoken in Iran today you are going to take a course in what is called "Farsi". It doesn't matter a whit if that is the true correct name of the language. This is not an encyclopedia. -- (WT-en) Mark 17:01, 1 September 2006 (EDT)
Of note is that the article uses "Persian", not "Farsi". -- (WT-en) Colin 18:14, 1 September 2006 (EDT)
Then why is the contributor arguing for "Persian" so vociferously? When did it change? Not that I much care, I just want to stop us going down the road of shaping travel guides based on academic theory. -- (WT-en) Mark 03:00, 2 September 2006 (EDT)

Dear Wikivoyage, Thank you for correctly using the English word, "Persian" to describe the language spoken in Iran. It is refreshing to find a site interested in education. When even details are correct, it adds to the confidence of the educated Reader. Thank you for checking your details and understanding that Farsi is simply not an English word. When we considering other languages such as Spanish, German, Japanese, or Greek the vernacular name for the language would never be used in place of the English word when speaking English. We would never say for example, I travelled to Germany and learned a few Deutch words. Rather, we would say, I travelled to Germany and learned a few German words. Correct usage indicates the level of awareness and understanding. Thank you again for your informative website. —The preceding comment was added by 62.249.195.253 (talk • contribs)

Rollback of 62.234.145.72's edits

I have just undone a lot of User:62.234.145.72's recent edits to the Iran page. 62.234.145.72 seems to be approaching the page from the perspective of a local Iranian from a middle / upper-class Tehrani family. While many of his/her edits--such as those suggesting that physical contact between unrelated men and women is fine when indoors--hold true for liberal, urban households, they can be misleading (and perhaps even cause offence) when applied to the entire country ... especially households in the religious heartlands of Qom and Mashhad. It's also important to keep in mind that I wrote these rules from a traveller's point of view: if a male tourist is invited into a newly-befriended Iranian's home for dinner, it is certainly not acceptable for him to greet the women of the household with a kiss.

Most of the edits that I rolled back fell into a few major categories:

  • Suggestions that Iranian society is more liberal than it actually is (especially in the "Respect" section). Again, while many of these suggestions may be true in the liberal cities, it simply isn't true when talking about conservative rural areas and many other parts of the country.
  • Edits that downplay the importance of observing religious protocols and being wary of the government. Given the government's history, and general sensitivity, it is unwise and perhaps rude to initiate political conversation. That doesn't mean that Iranians won't talk to you about politics, but that tact and prudence suggest foreigners should wait for the topic to come up before they launch into discussion on the matter. In Iran, its best to err on the side of caution when it comes to protocol, and travellers will soon learn the intricacies of day-to-day interaction.
  • Edits that downplay traveller fears. I think 62.234.145.72 is trying to make Iranian society sound a little less intimidating to foreign traveller's. This is commendable, but the fact is that most traveller's have some concerns about a society and culture that receives such limited and myopic coverage in the West. The Iran page acknowledges these fears, but tries to put them to rest.
  • Emphasis on the "dictatorial" regime. While the current regime can at best be described as a pseudo-democracy I think 62.234.145.72's push the limits of a NPOV.
  • Remarks from an affluent, Tehrani POV. For example, suggestions that "most homes have Internet access" are totally inaccurate outside of the capital city's wealthy, northern suburbs.
  • Misc NPOV and excess baggage remarks.

220.253.40.86 10:20, 15 May 2005 (EDT)


Sorry, I should point out the edit were done by me, (WT-en) Allyak (wasn't logged in properly). If you've got any problems, or questions, yell at me.

(WT-en) Allyak 10:26, 15 May 2005 (EDT)

Stunning difference

This is a stunning difference in information. Can anyone confirm which version is more likely?

Accommodation in Iran ranges from luxurious, if a little weary, five star hotels (هتل) in major cities to the small, cheap mosāferkhuneh (مسافرخانه) and mehmānpazir (مهماﻧپذیر) guesthouses that are littered about most centres. However, staff in mosāferkhuneh often refuses to provide room for non-Iranians, as these facilities have a recommandation from the Iran's Government to serve only for citizens.

or


Accommodation in Iran ranges from luxurious, if a little weary, five star hotels (هتل) in major cities to the small, cheap mosāferkhuneh (مسافرخانه) and mehmānpazir (مهماﻧپذیر) guesthouses that are littered about most centres. Moreover, staff in mosāferkhuneh often are so happy to provide room for non-Iranians, as these facilities have a recommandation from local governments to serve all tourists.

Visa

I am a Norwegian with a Israeli stamp in my passport. Will this be a problem for me?

Yes. (WT-en) Jpatokal 09:06, 13 August 2006 (EDT)
Just as a suggestion call the issuing agency for passports in Norway and ask if they can issue a second passport, because you need to send one passport off for a visa, but need your current passport to travel. The U.S. does this, but you have to ask the issuing agency because if you go to a post office and ask for it they won't have any idea about what you're talking about. -- 71.72.212.152 03:03, 2 September 2006 (EDT)
For those willing to risk it, when I was in Pakistan recently I met a girl heading into Iran... the visa application asked if she'd been to Israel (or maybe just asked for a list of countries visited in the last year or something) and for fear of lying, admitted to being there, which caused problems. Once she was meeting with the commissioner though, he couldn't even recognize which stamp was the Israeli one in her passport... something I think is pretty common... so if you're in a neighboring country, and wanting to apply, personally I would just keep it quiet unless they notice it themselves... there's a good chance it won't cause a problem. (WT-en) - Cacahuate 20:28, 19 February 2007 (EST)
It won't cause a problem if they don't notice it, but if they do find it you'll be deported, Pakistan are much more lax, the government here will detain you for 24 hours or more and then throw you out! --(WT-en) MiddleEastern 10:28, 20 February 2007 (EST)
I went there in 2006. My passport is full of Israeli stamps (been there 6 times) so I asked my local Iranian embassy if there would be trouble. They said "no problem" and there wasn't. The fact that I was officially invited by an Iranian university might have helped. 220.253.26.126 08:30, 20 June 2008 (EDT)

Australian Embassy

So I'm not sure why the edit war is going on over the address of this embassy, but unless someone speaks up here and justifies why they keep changing it to Intifada from Khalid Islambuli (which is the address listed on their website, it's likely to keep getting reverted. did the street name change? did the embassy move? Please enlighten us. (WT-en) - Cacahuate 17:27, 18 February 2007 (EST)

It didn't move, at least I don't think it did! --(WT-en) MiddleEastern 07:54, 19 February 2007 (EST)
he's right! they've just renamed the street, Khalid Islambuli was the assasin of Egypts president Anwar Sadat, they've just agreed to rename the street on diplomatic grounds, apparently --(WT-en) MiddleEastern 10:32, 20 February 2007 (EST).
good news, just wish people would speak up instead of just reverting over and over! (WT-en) - Cacahuate 20:25, 19 February 2007 (EST)

Ext link

Removed this link [1] per external links. Looks good for data mining. -- (WT-en) Fastestdogever 14:40, 22 March 2007 (EDT)

Cities

I took a stab at reducing the Cities list to 9, per WT policy - if you think others are more deserving / better serve the traveler, then by all means swap them out... but please stay within the 9 limit – (WT-en) cacahuate talk 04:40, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

I don't know Iran all that well, though I have been there. Certainly at least Tehran, Isphahan, Shiraz, Tabriz and Mashad have to be on the list. I have the impression Kerman and Abadan are fairly important, so I'd be inclined to add them, but I wouldn't know what to remove. Can someone who knows the country better have a look, maybe revise the list? (WT-en) Pashley 08:36, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

So someone added Kerman, and (WT-en) cacahuate deleted it. My impression is that Kerman is a fairly important city. If we must stick to the limit of nine cities, then I'd say delete Zahedan but, while it is not a major city, it is on the Istanbul_to_Delhi_overland route, closest Iranian city to Pakistan, which makes it somewhat important for travellers. So maybe delete Kashan or Yazd? Other comments? (WT-en) Pashley 02:14, 20 April 2008 (EDT)
It's been added a few times... I don't know what the proper 9 are, but my impression of Zahedan is that it's visited only as a border crossing town... so while most overlanders may go through it, perhaps it's not a big enough attraction in and of itself. I think Yazd is a fairly popular destination, I don't know if I'd ditch that one. – (WT-en) cacahuate talk 14:48, 20 April 2008 (EDT)
Now someone has added Hamedan a couple of times, and it has been deleted each time. I'm about to delete Zahedan & Kashan, replace with Kerman & Hamedan. This my best guess at a good list. (WT-en) Pashley 00:05, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

Well, we now have a bit of an edit war over the 9 cities, can we please discuss here rather than continuing with senseless reverting? Here were the original 9 I had quickly chosen, let's discuss here which, if any of these, should be changed and why:

  • Tehran – the vibrant capital, a beautiful city that suffers horrendous traffic and air pollution
  • Isfahan – former capital with stunning architecture, great bazaar, and tree-lined boulevards. There's a Persian saying, "Isfahan is half the world."
  • Kashan – a desert oasis situated in an historic region that dates back to pre-historic times
  • Mashad – greatest city of Eastern Iran with an important mosque, the shrine of the martyr Imam Reza
  • Qom – one of the holiest cities in the Middle East, considered the Jewel of Iran
  • Shiraz – a former capital, home of famous Persian poets such as Hafiz and Sa'di; known for gardens, especially roses
  • Tabriz – provincial capital in Western Iran; it's been suggested by some that this is the site of the Biblical "Garden of Eden"
  • Yazd – a remote desert city – circumstance influenced special architectural themes where water streams run in underground rooms in houses and wind-towers to keep them cool.
  • Zahedan – a city near Pakistan's border with a multi-tribal texture.

Discuss – (WT-en) cacahuate talk 14:28, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

As I said above, Tehran, Tabriz, Mashad, Isfahan and Shiraz must be on the list; I think that is beyond debate. Zahedan is not important enough for this list, except perhaps because it is a border town, on the overlanders' route. The others mentioned or inserted are all interesting places; I'm not sure how to prioritize. Kerman is a major carpet exporter and provincial capital, Qom a holy city, ... (WT-en) Pashley 00:54, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
Does Hamedan deserve a spot in the top nine? I'm not an expert on Iran, but have also never heard of it :/ p.s., i didn't see your comment from the 26th before i reverted, it wasn't your changes i was meaning to stop, but more the repeated insertion of Hamedan, so forgive if it sounded directed at you – (WT-en) cacahuate talk 02:06, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
My guess would be it does (see [2]) but, though I have been to Iran, I'm no expert either. (WT-en) Pashley 00:05, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
Here's a list, based on Wikipedia data, with population and whether it is a provincial capital or has been the national capital at some point:
Tehran, 7 million+, national capital
Isphahan, 3.4 million, prov, was national
Mashad, 2.4 million, prov, was national, major shrine
Tabriz, 1.4 million. prov, was national
Shiraz, 1.7 million. prov, was national
Qom, 1 million, prov, major shrine
Hamedan, 550,000 prov, was national
Kerman, 530,000, prov
Yazd, 434,000, prov
Zahedan, 580,000, prov
Kashan, 270,000
So I'd say Kashan should go, replaced by Hamedan. Beyond that, I'm not sure. I want to add Kerman, perhaps at the expense of Yazd or Zahedan, but I'm not certain. (WT-en) Pashley 00:38, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

That sounds reasonable... I'd vote for Kerman to replace Zahedan then, since it's not so much a destination, just a transport hub. So the list for now is then:

  • Tehran
  • Hamedan
  • Isfahan
  • Kerman
  • Mashad
  • Qom
  • Shiraz
  • Tabriz
  • Yazd

I'll go ahead and update the article to his since it's just you and I who seem to care at the moment, if anyone disagrees, speak up here! – (WT-en) cacahuate talk 01:09, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

Warning box

A warning box was just added to the top of the article stating United States citizens are advised against any nonessential travel to Iran. There is no diplomatic tie between the two countries. In addition, insurgency against foreigners in general is known to exist in many places, particularly in and around Tehran.

I'm not sure I'm loving that... maybe I've missed something in the news lately, but has anything actually happened? I know there's media tension between the US and Iran, but I'm not sure there exists a threat large enough to warrant that as a warning on the top of our article. We could possibly mention in the Stay safe section something about US citizens being alert, but warning against non-essential travel and then launching into stuff about "insurgencies against foreigners" sounds pretty sensationalistic to me. Can you provide some examples of what's happening in and around Tehran? I thought it was pretty peaceful these days. I'm gonna take it out of the article for now, and if you disagree with me then respond here, and we'll figure something out  :) – (WT-en) cacahuate talk 00:08, 10 May 2007 (EDT)

There have been a few Iranian-Americans detained by the Iranian government and accused of espionage. (See the Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/01/AR2007060100982.html?hpid=topnews) I think a general warning to those with dual Iranian-X citizenship should be somewhere on the page, since I don't think Iran recognizes dual citizenship, and if those travellers are detained or get into trouble, they may not be allowed to contact their embassy. EricDerKonig 206.154.229.139 15:50, 1 June 2007 (EDT)

Thanks Eric, I've put a little update into the "Stay safe" section, which I think is adequate. – (WT-en) cacahuate talk 20:19, 1 June 2007 (EDT)

Hitchhiking in Iran

How about the hitchhiking opportunities in Iran? Can someone with the knowledge please clarify? --81.212.248.118 15:29, 27 May 2007 (EDT)

Quickbar image

I am reverting the addition to the quickbar because the image is not useful, it does not provide any kind of feel of Iran, and it sucks. Collages are bad to begin with, but this one is really bad because it has too many subjects. Plus, the photo may violate the privacy rights of the little girl. -- (WT-en) Sapphire • (Talk) • 00:17, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

What did you expect? That this adorable Iranian girl (who is hardly recognizable btw) would sign a realease in english? The copyright and complete release for this picture has been given here: [3]. For the rest, a Photo Composite is, by definition, a collage of individual pictures. On the contrary, there is nothing like it to convey a good first impression for a country. I personally find this picture beautiful.
No, I don't expect the girl (or her parents) to sign a release... and that simply means we can't use it. That's Wikivoyage policy, in order to stay within the law in certain countries. Which is OK, because she (or any other person we might show in a photograph) isn't going to be waiting there in Tehran for travelers to see, whereas the various buildings or landscapes we might feature will. :) -(WT-en) Todd VerBeek 08:58, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

Pictures

What picture do you prefer to represent Iran and why? Please give your opinion below. Thanks.

Picture # 1. noframe

Picture # 2. Image deleted as per Project:Votes for deletion vfd --(WT-en) NJR_ZA 14:17, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

Picture # 3. Image deleted as per Project:Votes for deletion vfd --(WT-en) NJR_ZA 14:17, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

I'm chiming in as someone who was patrolling recent changes and happened to see this discussion - I've never visited Iran. However, while the first picture isn't good, collages tend to look like advertising, and worse are generally assumed to be copyright violations since 99% of the time a collage uploaded to this site IS a copyright violation (and yes, I see that the images above have been licensed properly). If any of the individual pictures used within these collages are available for use then they all look great, but collages will almost certainly be removed or replaced by future editors, whether that's Andrew or someone else who doesn't want the guide to look like a brochure. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 02:13, 22 June 2007 (EDT)
OK, just for the info, I don't work for ANY travel agency and I am not related in any way to the Government of Iran (or the Ministry of tourism in the US) or the State dept. Here are 3 more pics (no collages).

Picture #4. [[Image:Ispahan.jpg|noframe|150px]]

Picture #5. (image since deleted) - Texugo (talk) 12:16, 11 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Picture #6.' [[Image:Yazd.jpg|noframe|150px]]


Purely as an image I'd go for #6, among these choices. Is it very famous though? It would be nice to have a good picture that shows a famous mosque or other really famous site in Iran. The current picture of Tehran isn't ideal, but it's fine for now, or replace it with #6 until the perfect Iran image shows up. I also agree regarding collages, nobody's saying that you work for a tourist agency. But if we put collages like that into the articles they start to look like government tourist brochures, and we don't want Wikivoyage to look that way. That's all! Thanks for sourcing some good pics, there's quite a few nice shots on that guys website, if we're really free to use them, it would be nice to add a lot of them to the relevant city articles. – (WT-en) cacahuate talk 03:51, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

I agree with the above discussion. Although collages show many scenes, none are clear and so they do make a good main image. Also, they look too commercial - like a travel agency brochure. However, I also agree that the present view of the Tehran skyline is not representative of Iran, and certainly a better picture should be sought. Out of the above, I also prefer either #4 or #6. However, it would be great if you could get something more outstanding. Iran has such a long and rich culture, and places like Isfahan and Shiraz have some wonderful architecture. Something from one of those cities, like the Naqsh-i Jahan Square or the Shah Cheragh or even scenes of the landscape in places like Fars province would be good. See what you can do? Anyway, I support your aims to find a replacement for the Tehran sky-line image, and if you get more images, please add the to the appropriate articles. At the moment, all the Iranian destinations (except for one image on the Shiraz article) are withought photographs. Anyway, thanks for your efforts. (WT-en) WindHorse 04:17, 22 June 2007 (EDT)
My objection to collages isn't their perceived commerciality, but entirely on graphic design principles. It's astonishingly difficult to combine multiple images into a single, effective composition that leads the eye around it, conveys the "story" you're trying to tell, and looks good as a design element included in the page. It's nearly impossible to do in the space we have available in the quickbar. (I've got an art-school diploma on my wall, and I wouldn't even try it, so my saying that the composites here simply don't work is no insult to the compiler of them.) Including multiple stand-alone images in various parts of the page works oh so much better: You can read each image clearly, and they don't fight with each other for attention. As for the lead picture, the one of Yazd (#6) is nice (so is this [4], which would look good on the Yazd page itself). I want to see #4 on Isfahan, large enough to see some of the pattern on the dome. Etc. The creator of these photos has given us the license, and we have plenty of space, so let's use it! - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 08:58, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

Regions

Right now the only way we have Iran divided is into 30 provinces, which is a little overwhelming. Is there a way these can be grouped into around 7 regions, or is there some other way to divide the country into about 7 areas that will help travelers understand the various parts of the country (like we did with the United States)? For example: the Caspian Sea coast, the Persian Gulf coast, various plateau areas....? - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 09:14, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

Just came here to ask the same question! Haven't been there, but what about just cutting it into quarters? or maybe a 5th "central iran" region? I would think 4 or 5 divisions would be plenty for Iran at this stage, there's not that much to right? – (WT-en) cacahuate talk 14:19, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

OK, they keep getting created... I'm moving the provinces here until someone can group them into 4 or 5 digestible regions...

Certainly Azerbaijan (Iran) is a distinct region. There at least three languages — Persian of course, but also Azeri (related to Turkish rather than Persian) and Kurdish, there's another Azerbaijan, a former Soviet republic now a separate country.

I think the Caspian coast area is also fairly distinct. Not sure how you'd divide up the rest, though. Perhaps central Eastern an Gulf Coast, but I'm not at all certain. (WT-en) Pashley 02:00, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

What the heck? No regions listed for Iran? That's not right—it's a huge country and a major travel destination. I'll look into this, but would appreciate others' thoughts too, since I don't know much about Iranian travel geography. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:03, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
Iranian regions hierarchy draft
Going by climactic zone would be weird, but I kind of like that breakdown. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:14, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
OK, Azerbaijan (Iran) should probably have it's own region, since it is culturally coherent. It would include the provinces: East Azarbaijan, West Azarbaijan, Ardabil, and Zanjan. Still working on figuring out the rest! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:23, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
(I will say that it's really messed up that this [5] is the only regions breakdown I can find on the web...) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:34, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

OK, here's my draft proposal to the right. Regions: Azerbaijan (Iran), Iranian Caspian Sea Coast, Iranian Mountains, Persian Heartland (along the Gulf), and Iranian Desert. Sound good? Better ideas? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:47, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

I think we need opinions from folk who know the country better than I, preferably including some Iraninans.
I object to "Persian Heartland (along the Gulf)". To me, the "heartland" would have to include Isfahan and Shiraz. (WT-en) Pashley 10:48, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
Italian version's regions
Per the cotm nomination suggestion, I've made a map of the Iranian regions as listed on the Italian version. There are a few gaps in their breakdown; I think we might want to come up with a hybrid of the map I created above and this one? (I apologize for the continued ugly maps—I'll make a pretty one once we agree on region boundaries.) The region names they use are Northwestern Iran, Western Iran, Central Iran, Eastern Iran, Caspian Region, and Gulf Region. I'm not a huge fan of directional names; perhaps we could do better. Surely we could call "Northwestern Iran" Azerbaijan (Iran) or Iranian Azerbaijan (I also dislike disambiguations). Thoughts? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 14:40, 4 August 2009 (EDT)
I'd say the Italian-derived map is definitely an improvement, but this still needs work. Are there any Iranians about? Or travellers with extensive experience of the country? I was there twice, total about 6 months, in the 70s; I just don't know enough to do this right. (WT-en) Pashley 03:13, 5 August 2009 (EDT)
The only problem I see with the Italian map are the beige provinces; they are not connected, which I imagine would not be convenient for travellers. I don't know Iran, but if the Italian map works for the Italians, do you think it would make sense if we just connected the beige region like the upper map and then copy the Italian map for the rest? Is there a sort of ethnic similarity between the separated provinces? I just don't know... (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 03:18, 5 August 2009 (EDT)
Sadly, I can say with confidence that no, we have no Iranian contributors, nor, apparantly, any contributors with extensive travel experience in the country. You could try recruiting Iranian contributors from Wikipedia (although that can be risky), or we can just create the best regions breakdown we can at the moment and leave it open for future revision. Anything would be better than what we have now. And having a region structure of any kind, in my experience, will help attract knowledgeable contributors, who can help refine it.
I've started turning the map into a real regions map, and have added cities; perhaps that will help us fill in the gaps or otherwise fix up the hierarchy. I've added tentative region names. Also, I didn't bother to split the Khorasan provinces, and don't intend to unless someone thinks it worthwhile. I definitely think we should move the province of Qom into Central Iran, but I do not feel confident making a judgment regarding the other three unplaced provinces. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 15:51, 5 August 2009 (EDT)
I think you have a good point. Even if this map is altered later to better place the floaters, having this map is better than not having anything. Also, aside from altering the map, moving those provinces would be a relatively easy adjustment. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 01:32, 6 August 2009 (EDT)
I would personally plunge forward and throw those regions into Western Iran.... if it's ever an issue and someone thinks they belong more to central, move them then, but it seems a pretty minor issue, and seems a lot better than leaving strange unknowns on the map :) – (WT-en) cacahuate talk 03:28, 6 August 2009 (EDT)
done. Let a few days go by, then lets move that map to the article, if there are no objections. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 19:28, 6 August 2009 (EDT)
Finally done! I did this very quickly, though, so it might be wise for someone to look over my changes (I'm offline for a while after this). --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:00, 21 August 2009 (EDT)

Iran-Azerbaijan Travel Links

I cannot find information on the Tehran-Baku train link. Also, does anyone know about the boat link from Rasht or Sari to Baku? Feel free to send me the info and I can post it up. Thanks!! (WT-en) Cupcakecommander 08:34, 1 September 2007 (EDT)

Priority of "Farsi" and "Iranian" over "Persian"

This refers to one of the editors' comments and subsequent changes from "Farsi" and "Iranian" into "Persian". Please note that:

1. "Persian" is the adjective of "Persia". And "Persia" is a name of Greek origin attributed to "Iran".

2. Greece, or territories from which modern Greece has emerged, occupied iran in BC 330.

Therefore, the preference of using and requesting foreigners to use Iranian words of "Farsi" (for the language) and Iranian over words made by occuping forces is quite logocal.

I'd say "Farsi" if I was talking to an Iranian or to someone else who knows the country. Talking to most others, I'd say "Persian", using the normal English name for that language. It is the same root as "Farsi", just changed a bit as it moved across languages. I'd use "Persian (Farsi)" in a guidebook.
As for the country, we've been calling it "Iran" in English for about a hundred years now, ever since the first "Pahlavi" Shah changed the name. That is now the standard English name. "Persia" is now appropriate only in historical accounts. e.g. I used it in the Marco Polo article because the translators did. (WT-en) Pashley 04:22, 10 November 2007 (EST)

. . . URGENT . . . Editing deactivated; Action needed . . . URGENT . . .

Please note the editing of Iran page is currently blocked. Please take the necessary course of action to reactivate the entry as the present entry contains many biased parts reflecting the Iranian ruling authorities' views. In case it is impossible to fix the problem, please delete the entry and open a new page for Iran. I look forward to your reply.

Editing is not blocked. I just tested it. Please discuss the apparent bias here; maybe it can be fixed. (WT-en) Pashley 04:10, 10 November 2007 (EST)

More "Iranian" pictures needed

Please advise me on how to insert pictures and descriptions thereof into the entry. In the current entry, many pictures that depict features characteristics to Iran are absent. The one that is used under the titel is unsuitable as constructions similar to its content can be easily seen in the pictures taken in many other countries. In addition, the picture is from Yazd that, although an important tourist destination, has less significance than many other Iranian cities in terms of tourism, politics and economy. I believe pictures that show characteristics exclusive to a country are best to be used as an introduction to that country in a travel guide. I will be more than happy to send my choices if you advise me how. —The preceding comment was added by 80.191.70.33 (talk • contribs)

I'd love to see more pictures of Iran! Please see wts:Project:How to upload files, Project:How to add an image, and Project:Image policy—these help/policy articles should tell you all you need to know. You will need to register an account on Wikivoyage Shared to upload files, though. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 23:50, 12 November 2007 (EST)

Edit Comment

I removed this sentence because it is extremely POV, has spelling errors and is unnecessary to that section of the article. "Moreover, some limitations that are quite disgusting for the people forced to abide can be fun for the unaccuctomed foreign tourist who is assured to go back to the normal conditions after the stay." 76.68.210.71 11:49, 16 March 2008 (EDT)h.h.

POV is fine - the official Wikivoyage policy is Project:Be fair - but the sentence that was removed does seem to be over-the-top and does not add much value to the article. Thanks for the edit. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 13:24, 16 March 2008 (EDT)



Whats with the taarof? Its nowhere NEAR as exagerrated as you make it to be

Edit conflict with every attempted update

Anyone else have problems updating this article? All other articles I edit is saved sucessfully but the Iran article gives a warning. The warning is by the spam filter and it displays a message that some naughty text is added. I am unable to find it in the article and of course I am not adding it myself so I do not understand why this is happening. Any ideas? --(WT-en) Sleepyhead 06:23, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, the spam filter was choking on l.e.s.b.i.a.n s.e.x. Can't say my rephrasing is all that good, but edits now work. (WT-en) OldPine 07:05, 3 July 2008 (EDT)
Why does that always choke people? Hm – (WT-en) cacahuate talk 17:04, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

Mobile phone

you mention irancell, which does not get signal outside of the big cities, but what about hamrah aval?(MCI) http://hamrahaval.ir it gets signal even in the remote areas of Chahar Mahaal and Bakhtiari. I think they have all the same features as Irancell and they have cheap prepaid SIM cards.

Regional Divisions

I do not know Iran well enough to give any word on how to divide the nation, but this is the proposal in the CotM: Regions — The country needs to be divided into appropriate regions. Of the other language versions, the Italian version has broken the country into Azerbaijan (north-west), Western Iran, Central Iran, Eastern Iran, Caspian Sea, & Hormuz regions, even giving cities/provinces in those regions. I'd probably add Baluchistan to that. You can use Google translate to help translate the text.

  • Azerbaijan (Northwest)
  • Western Iran
  • Central Iran
  • Eastern Iran
  • Caspian Sea
  • Hormuz
  • Baluchistan

Personally, since Azerbaijan is another country's name, I wonder if it would be better to call that region "Northwest"? (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 16:20, 4 August 2009 (EDT)

Lets please keep this discussion in one place. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:30, 4 August 2009 (EDT)

Stay safe

I took a stab at organizing the "Stay safe" section. Most of it was already organized, but do you think it works the way it is? Could this be checked off the task list on the CotM or are there now too many subheadings? (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 03:22, 5 August 2009 (EDT)

looks good to me. (WT-en) Pashley 06:08, 5 August 2009 (EDT)

History

I've added quite a bit there, up to 1979. It needs a second opinion and material on more recent events. (WT-en) Pashley 06:09, 5 August 2009 (EDT)

Azerbaijan

Regarding this merge proposal [6]: I'd prefer we merge in the opposite direction, so that we lose the disambiguator altogether. And those subregions should be redirected back to Iranian Azerbaijan. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 15:02, 3 September 2009 (EDT)

That would be OK with me. However, in the only similar case I know of, we have done something different. We have Macedonia (Greece) and Republic of Macedonia with Macedonia as a disambig page. I'd say if possible we should avoid the disambig, just have two articles Azerbaijan and either Azerbaijan (Iran) or Iranian Azerbaijan. (WT-en) Pashley 04:03, 4 September 2009 (EDT)
Agreed, and I've gone ahead with the merge. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 23:36, 4 October 2009 (EDT)

Zanjan in the regional break-up

What exactly was the reason for having Zanjan listed under Western Iran? Wikipedia says it's a predominantly Azeri-inhabited city (and province for that matter) and it was also listed under the former Iranian region of Azerbaijan (Iran). So wouldn't it be more logical to list it under Iranian Azerbaijan rather than Western Iran? ~ (WT-en) Vidimian 19:54, 6 October 2009 (EDT)

I'm sold. If there are no objections, lets move Zanjan Province to Iranian Azerbaijan. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 02:07, 7 October 2009 (EDT)
Move it. (WT-en) Pashley 07:43, 7 October 2009 (EDT)
Moved. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:11, 7 October 2009 (EDT)


Some comments on the article

1-The "Understand" section is unlike articles on other countries. In those articles some reasons for visiting the country are mentioned in that section but not in Iran's article.

2-Iran used to be known as Persia until 1935 to Western countries not in Iran itself.

3-In my opinion the subsections on "the last dynasty" and "Islamic revolution" are way too long for such an article and still the whole "History" section does not do justice.

4-Maybe the section "Other destinations" can be subsumed into the "See" section.

Hello and thank you for your comments. Wikivoyage is a user-edited wiki...much like Wikipedia...and the quality of our articles depends on the quality of contributions. Given the difficulty for Western travellers to visit, the thoroughness and quality of the Iran article is below what it should be. While we do have guidelines as to what ideal sections should include, feel free to plunge forward and make contributions! I can't find any "ideal" country pages to provide as an example, but the USA page seems to be close while our Manual of Style and where you can stick it are useful guidelines. The understand section should have a brief outline of Climate, History, Culture (although 'do's and 'don't's belong in the respect section), and maybe some Geography or holiday info. We're not an encyclopedia, but a travel guide and the "history" section should cover important topics but shouldn't be more than a few paragraphs...take a look at the history section of Greece, which has an equally long and glorious history. The likely reason that those two sections are long relative to the whole history section is that they are relevant and useful for travelers and the people who have contributed have likely been more familiar with this part of Iran's history. The "Other destinations" section is an integral part of every region-level page...from continents to countries to states/prefectures/islands/etc...and is a place to highlight no more than 9 notable destinations (no cities, but villages are acceptable here). It's clear that the see/do sections need a lot of improvement, though. We'd greatly appreciate help with the Iran page! (WT-en) AHeneen 02:36, 17 July 2010 (EDT)

Desert tour guides-suitable for article listing?

I have moved the listing below to the Talk page for consideration of the validity of listing in the article under the Tours policies, namely; "In practice this policy disallows listing most audio tours, walking tours, and guided tours since the substance of such tours can generally be fulfilled by an independent traveler".

If there is a good reason this tour guide/tour operator should be exempted, such as a requirement for an independent traveller to have a local guide, then please outline it here on the Talk page. -- (WT-en) felix 05:01, 14 November 2011 (EST)

  • <listing name="Local guide" alt="" directions="Na'in, 140 km east of Esfahan and 170 km north of Yazd on the edge of the Central desert" address="On call tour guide" phone="+98 9398636090" email="Naintours@yahoo.com" url="http://www.**.com" hours="" price="">Official tour guide. provides midrange desert trekking tours and also cultural, historical budget tours in the desert region.</listing>
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