Talk:Manhattan/Harlem and Upper Manhattan

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Merging[edit]

There exists a New York (city)/Manhattan/Harlem which needs to be merged with this. --(WT-en) Ravikiran 20:25, 27 February 2006 (EST)

You're right. I can take some stuff out of that article and cut, paste, and edit it as appropriate, but how does one actually merge articles in such a way that the other topic is deleted after the merge? There shouldn't be two competing articles about the same place. -Michael 00:28, 28 Apr 2006 (UTC)
Once you're done with that, all you need to put a redirect from that page to this. Thanks for taking up this task. — (WT-en) Ravikiran 02:24, 28 April 2006 (EDT)
That wasn't hard. If I made any mistake, please feel free to correct my work at your leisure. -Michael 05:15, 01 May 2006 (UTC)

Recommending[edit]

Next question: Should we recommend or mention any places to sleep? There is the Harlem Y, for example, but I am not sure whether it would be unpleasant to stay in a place that has "a Transitional Housing program that provides social services to meet the needs of the residents who are living in transition until placed in supportive or permanent housing." That sounds a bit like the Y I once stayed at in Springfield, Mass. The people I encountered were all friendly, but the experience was a bit "interesting." I think that it would be best if someone who is actually personally familiar with the Harlem Y or other places to stay would edit that section. -Michael 05:46, 01 May 2006 (UTC)

Also, should the Morris-Jumel Mansion be here or in New York (city)/Washington Heights or both? -Michael 05:48, 01 May 2006 (UTC)

Hey thanks a ton once again. Yes indeed we should mention any places that a traveller might sleep in, unless they are both bad and obscure. If they are bad but well-known, then it is better to mention them as a place to avoid. As to your second question, I think that someone who actually knows the place would be better placed to answer it. — (WT-en) Ravikiran 08:39, 1 May 2006 (EDT)
I've walked past the Morris-Jumel Mansion. I think the mansion has traditionally been considered to be in Harlem, but if we're considering 155 St. the boundary line between Harlem and Washington Heights... -Michael 06:45, 03 May 2006 (UTC)

Descriptions needed[edit]

There are several restaurants with descriptions like "Anglo-Caribbean.". With no real description, price range, or website, that's rather useless. I'm inclined to remove them, but want to seek other opinions. The drink section is similarly useless. Presumably a traveler would simply wander the streets to find places instead of using description-less list. Thoughts? --(WT-en) Orcrist 12:54, 7 January 2012 (EST)

With an address and some minimal description of the cuisine, I'd say that's just enough to keep; it's not like the Eat and Drink sections are overflowing yet. (WT-en) LtPowers 15:13, 8 January 2012 (EST)

Closed listings[edit]

  • St. Nick's Pub, 773 St. Nicholas Ave (at 149th St; Subway: A, B, C, or D to 145th St; Bus: M3 or M18). Another longstanding and well-known jazz venue. 

Common wisdom is that this will reopen, but no news on a date. --Peter Talk 04:22, 1 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lenox Lounge is slated to reopen in summer 2013 at a new location. If it does (I'm worried by a lawsuit filed by the former landlord at the owner stripping the interior and making off with all the decor!), it should be re-added to the article. --Peter Talk 23:08, 4 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Maps[edit]

These maps are unreadable. What's the solution for that problem? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:37, 2 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As I said on the Upper West Side talk page, I suppose we could replace them with a dynamic map. The shape of the area really doesn't lend itself to a map you can easily read in-text. PerryPlanet (talk) 18:02, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
How would a dynamic map improve things? LtPowers (talk) 21:54, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Morningside Park[edit]

That park is beautiful, a wonderful place to visit. I will post an entry for it unless someone would like to help out by beating me to it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:48, 12 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Black culture/history[edit]

For being the global capitol of Black culture, I think this article is lack.ing on sites/information on the Black nationalist movement. I've improved a few, would appreciate input from local New Yorkers —The preceding comment was added by Magedq (talk • contribs)

Much appreciated! Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:48, 10 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Western boundary of Harlem[edit]

I wanted to add an entry on Morningside Park in this article, but I see that the boundaries of the Upper West Side have been extended all the way to 8th Av. (Frederick Douglass Blvd.) to 125th St. As someone who grew up on W. 97th St., I can tell everyone that all of us knew - not thought, knew - that above 110th St., Harlem began east of Morningside Drive, and Morningside Park was a no-go area for Upper West Siders (in fact, the most dangerous spot in Manhattan and, I think, the entire city at some point in the 70s). I think the static maps in this article and Manhattan/Upper West Side should be changed to make the boundaries of the Upper West Side consist of 110th St. from Central Park West to Morningside Drive, then Morningside Drive, and then, north of 122nd St., Amsterdam Av. (with both sides of the avenue within the Upper West Side). I think the boundaries get fuzzy north of 122nd St., but I don't see a good alternative, and I think that Morningside Av. is very straightforwardly part of Harlem.

Once these steps are taken, I would like to move the entry on Morningside Park to this article, edit it with a link to its front page on the New York City Parks website, and with any luck, add a good photo of that beautiful park, too.

What do you all think? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:17, 27 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Knowing nothing but what you've written above, it occurs to me that if the Park is no longer a no-go area for UWSers, maybe that's why it's no longer considered part of Harlem? Powers (talk) 18:15, 27 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Could be. However, I would maintain that while the park itself could be considered part of either the Upper West Side (specifically, the Columbia area) and/or Harlem, everything east of the park should be considered part of Harlem. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:22, 27 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, in a purely geographic sense, I'd make the point that Morningside Park is on top of a hill on the extreme west and then slopes steeply down to a valley. The valley is in Harlem and the top of the hill is Morningside Heights, which we in the upper West 90s considered part of the Upper West Side (some people living further downtown, such as in the West 60s might disagree). Similarly, St. Nicholas Park marks the boundary between West Harlem (at the top of the hill, which is also called Hamilton Heights) and Central Harlem (in the valley below). I would award both parks to Central Harlem, but at the very least, I think it's very sound as well as, I think, traditional, to consider them border zones for Central Harlem. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:40, 27 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I see that the dynamic map follows the boundaries I consider correct, but the static map does not. What should we do about that? Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:20, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, we don't have many active users who can edit static maps with @SelfieCity: is the only active user who knows how to edit a static map. Ypsilon also knows how to, but they're inactive except in updating Wikivoyage:Discover. I probably need to learn how to make one, but the instructions in Wikivoyage:How to draw static maps is not very helpful. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:29, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think we will probably have to remove the static maps. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:41, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's why I'm not a huge fan of static maps. They can go out-of-date easily, and they are hard to update. At other times, you could have an an arbitrary region map. For now, I agree that it's best to remove the static map. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:47, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I generally prefer static maps, but only when they're accurate. Dynamic maps of Manhattan are problematic because uptown and downtown aren't straight up and straight down. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:07, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I could, however, I'd need to be clear on the correct boundaries first. The dynamic map is the one with the correct boundaries? And the only issue with these boundaries is in the southwestern area of the district? If those details are clear, it shouldn't be too difficult to make the adjustments, though I should be clear that I'm not experienced in static maps of cities. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 14:56, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Dated text?[edit]

I just removed a reference to a "planned" Marriott hotel whose construction was cancelled in 2006. I haven't been to West Harlem since some time before the pandemic, but is this true anymore?

The entire west side of Harlem is a surprising mix of rundown streets with car repair garages, stately single-family town houses, and boarded-up buildings.

I think most if not all of the car repair garages are gone and replaced by the rapid encroachment of new Columbia educational, office and housing buildings, and I doubt there's an appreciable number of boarded-up buildings now. Can someone update? Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:12, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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