Talk:Optimising London public transport

Writing an article on cost optimisation for London public transport

Swept in from the pub

As the title says. Would such content be welcome as a dedicated article on this site (haven't seen one of them before on this site, but think it can be quite useful)? This would involve things such as

• the National Rail premium (non-obvious, poorly explained and screwed me for a while)
• making use of open-jaws and split tickets
• recognising which services are unnecessary (i.e, when a cheaper and similar alternative exists)
• the zonal system and how people can utilise that to their advantage (such as recognising non-obvious routes)
• handling TfL services that are also part of the National Rail system
• making use of railcards, and maxing out the off-peak discount to the reader's advantage
• recognising when buses are legitimately useful for saving cost, and when they aren't
• when none of the above techniques are required

Of course, all of the above techniques are legal. Please ping me in a response, since I don't watch pages in general. Leaderboard (talk) 20:06, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

@Leaderboard: I am afraid it gets complicated, and the ticket types, prices and other specifics may change frequently enough that the advice may get outdated faster than it is updated. I tried doing something much simpler at Turku#By bus 2, but I realised that most travellers would be best off just using the simple options rather than optimising cost by more elaborate means. London is of course bigger and more expensive, but still I think only some simple tricks are worthwhile unless you stay there for longer times. –LPfi (talk) 20:49, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

@Leaderboard: I don't see an article for Public transit in London being unwelcome for starters (or a derivative of that, say "Public rail transit in London", focussing on trams, trains and underground). Cost optimisation can definitely be a part of that, and then perhaps over time evolve into a stand-alone article.

As LPfi already said though, and for as my own experience with maintaining Rail travel in the Netherlands goes, you'd want to keep this to strictly those methods that help the traveller significantly to begin with. That's why I've kept the "tips for saving credit" on Rail travel i/t Netherlands as brief as it is. Methods that save just a few pence aren't going to be worth your time updating over time. It's the methods that save, for example, £5 on a £15-journey that you'd want to focus on, and which readers will be looking for. Similar with useful services and whatnot, focus on places that people would want to go like POIs and airports. If you have the insight and can make such an article comprehensive and useful, I'd definitely support the effort.
-- Wauteurz (talk) 23:20, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

@LPfi, Wauteurz:, how does this look like? Leaderboard (talk) 19:09, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

I had a quick read of that and I would definitely find that useful the next time I'm in London. Perhaps a brief summary could also be added on Bus travel in the United Kingdom, though I could see that being a bit too London-centric. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 22:14, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

At present, I think the article is more useful for a student than a visitor to London. It could form part of a Public transport in London travel topic article. I think that an article that focuses just on cost optimisation for transport is too narrow - a general London on a budget article could also work as bigger savings would be made by finding cheap places to sleep and eat.

It needs some editing - it should be written for somebody who has never been to London - how do I get an Oyster Card, is it worth buying one if I am only staying one night. Don't call Heathrow Express a scam - it is a real train service but expensive; I wouldn't use it if I was travelling on holiday, but on a business trip it could make sense. Travellers can't get a Freedom Pass, so they should only get a one sentence mention. It would be more useful to explain the use of English Concessionary Travel Passes issued by councils outside London - do they just cover buses? AlasdairW (talk) 23:38, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

@AlasdairW:, this is not the final version, it's still an interim draft that I put here to see whether this is something I should spend effort on.

• There are aspects that are useful to visitors, and parts that are useful to residents. I have tried to separate the tips into two sections for this reason.
• The problem is that I know little about cost optimisation other than in travel - but if others can commit into expanding the above article with non-transport stuff, this is something that can be considered.
• "It should be written for somebody who has never been to London" - indeed, while that is the aim, more updates are necessary for that. That being said, the focus is squarely on cost optimisation, and I was wary of "diluting" this into a general article. There are enough sites on the internet that answer basic questions about Oyster after all.
• "I wouldn't use it if I was travelling on holiday, but on a business trip it could make sense" - are you trying to say that about ~15 minutes is worth a substantially increased fare that is also uncapped? I think it is safe to say that from a tourist's perspective, the Heathrow (and Gatwick) expresses are a money-making scam given the availability of frequent, cheaper alternatives (just that they can seem obscured from the view of someone who has never visited London, which this article aims to point towards).
• "It would be more useful to explain the use of English Concessionary Travel Passes issued by councils outside London - do they just cover buses?" - indeed, I plan to add the ENCTS to the article. They indeed only cover buses.

Leaderboard (talk) 07:01, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the detailed reply.

We have Common scams, which says "These are designed to get your money or business from you under false pretenses". So I think we should only use the term "scam" for something which illegal or close to, not for something which is expensive. With Heathrow Express, it appears that the money saving trick is to book your ticket as soon as you book your flight - today they are selling tickets for several dates in June for £5.50. The standard fare is £25, which I could justify for business travel to save 20 minutes, as £75 per hour is about what my time costs (including overheads). AlasdairW (talk) 23:07, 26 January 2023 (UTC)