Talk:South Asian history

The IVC were not Aryan but by no means are they confirmed to be Dravidian-speaking. See wikipedia:Harappan language. They may have been Austroasiatic, para-Nihali, para-Burushaski, spoke a language from a family now extinct or quite possibly multiple unrelated languages (similar to Mesoamerica and Mesopotamia). I also wouldn't conflate language with race or skin tone. The Dravidian language nay have been related to Elamite which was spoke in what is now Southwestern Iran and Southeastern Iraq. Even Austroasiatic speakers aren't necessarily the most indigenous or native. The ancestors Andaman Islanders were the probably the most though you can never say for sure (complicated by the fact that there were prehistoric and historic outward migrations from the subcontinent into the rest of Eurasia too).

I also don't really agree with calling the Cholas the greatest South Indian empire. Tamil perhaps South India is not just Tamil. The Vijayanagara Empire could be considered to be greater among others, depending on how you define it.

More work will have to be done on South Asia other than India and Pakistan too. Gizza ^(roam) 05:01, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, there's a lot else to cover. Kalinga, for example, and the Rajputs, and also later powers such as the Mughals and the European colonists, but the history of the Subcontinent is quite long and rich. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:17, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Go ahead and correct it if you know better. Most of the stuff I wrote was from memory from the time I studied them in school, and the ones we focussed on were the Mauryas, Guptas and Cholas. In my history lessons in school, we were taught that the original Indus Valley inhabits were the Dravidians, so that's where I got that from. Please go ahead and expand on South India if you are familiar with other kingdoms. The Cholas just happened to be the ones I am most familiar with, and there is no doubt that at their zenith, they were a very powerful kingdom. The dog2 (talk) 03:27, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

They were and produced lots of great art. My knowledge of Indian history is spotty. I would also mention Gandhara as an interesting civilization - Indo-Hellenistic. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:16, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

BC and BCE

I don't think we should enforce either of these on anyone, but at the same time there ought to be consistency within articles themselves. I think we ought go with either the BC/AD method or the BCE/CE method, but not both within the same article. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 13:25, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Agreed. It's probably best to go to CE/BCE, since despite India having a very old Christian community, it's overwhelmingly non-Christian, and all South Asian countries are primarily Hindu, Muslim or Buddhist. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:49, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

It doesn't matter greatly as long as we stick with one. Have you adjusted yet? --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 22:44, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

I've removed some of the periods as a start. Also, though, I'm seeing a lot of "r" before dates; is this being used instead of "circa"? If so, we should use c. because that is the right way to do it. Actually, those mysterios "r's" are probably more of an issue than the original point of the discussion. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 22:48, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

I'm doing very light editing - bad fingers on left hand (freak accident 8 days ago). Thanks for taking action! Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:40, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

The r refers to his reign. It's not the same as c. "r" is there to make it clear we are referring to the reign and not the lifespan. The dog2 (talk) 02:43, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

Oh, I see. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 03:02, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

Dalits

Let's have this discussion here. At least based on what I was taught in history class, the four castes were the Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras. People below that were considered not to have a caste, and therefore were called outcastes. So I think using the term "people of a higher caste" to refer to the aforementioned four castes is inaccurate. The dog2 (talk) 15:57, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Right. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:33, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Where's the passage in question? Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:04, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

I reverted the edit on this grounds, but I brought this up in case Pashley has something to say. See [1]. The dog2 (talk) 18:24, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

I see it. DaGizza made the edit. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:37, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, my bad for mentioning the wrong person. The dog2 (talk) 18:41, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Not all of the four castes would discriminate against Dalits though. It would mainly be by Brahmins and people in the middle seeking to be more Brahmin-like. Dalits wouldn't be shunned by other labourers or Shudras for instance. Gizza ^(roam) 21:01, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Didn't the Dalits have to beat pots and pans to warn people of their arrival? What I was taught in school was that they had to do this so even the Shudras could shun them. The dog2 (talk) 21:09, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

We need more coverage of the arts

I'm noting this as I don't have time to do the work right now, but for example the basic structure of ragas dates back well into times BCE, as we have music theory treatises dating from them that are still valid today. We should also cover the styles of different periods of Indian sculpture and architecture, with pictures of each. Of course, some of this can be farmed out to satellite articles, as we already have some articles that cover Mughal architecture, Anglo-Indian architecture and so forth, but all of this should be mentioned. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:34, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm not an expert in this, but I think I mentioned Panini's grammar, and of course Shakuntala by the playwright Kalidasa from the Gupta era. The dog2 (talk) 23:05, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Right, and I read that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:50, 3 March 2021 (UTC)