Talk:Syracuse (New York)

Banner

Carrier Dome

Hall of Languages

I simply cannot decide between these two banner options. (I know they're both from Syracuse University, but I just couldn't find any good skyline photos.) Thoughts? Powers ^(talk) 02:07, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

I like the second one. Texugo (talk) 02:29, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Me too. Pashley (talk) 03:28, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Me three. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:29, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Me four. --Danapit (talk) 08:04, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Aesthetically, or as a good representation of the city? Someone else I consulted suggested that the shot of the Hall of Languages would give the impression that this was a downtown sight and fairly represented the city's architecture. Powers ^(talk) 18:42, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

It's a better composition, but in any case, both banners are of Syracuse University, so we can't judge them against a banner of downtown Syracuse. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:06, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Well, yes; the point was that the arena shot is clearly and obviously S.U.; the building shot not so much so. Powers ^(talk) 01:42, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Understood. In which case, yes, I do think that the banner looks much more like a college campus than the downtown of a medium-sized city. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:39, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Sorry to chime in at the 11th hour. Powers, I'm headed to Syracuse tomorrow and am offering my services to take a nice pagebanner photo while I'm there. I have one in mind already, but if you have any particular ideas let me know. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 14:09, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

I don't know the city well enough to say. Is it possible to get a nice overview from atop University Hill? Or even the top of the Carousel Center/Destiny USA? Powers ^(talk) 14:15, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Powers - sadly, my panoramic shot of Clinton Square came out glitchy at the seams, and there was nothing comparable on Commons or Flickr. I did take this decent shot of downtown and Onondaga Lake from near the State Fairgrounds, though. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:29, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

I appreciate your efforts! That's a good shot, but I'm undecided on whether it's better than what we have for banner purposes. Perhaps a bit of tweaking of the gamma levels might brighten it up a bit. Powers ^(talk) 12:37, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

I lightened it a bit. Better now? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 14:40, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Looks better, though the compression artifacts are noticeable at large sizes. That may be unavoidable, though. Powers ^(talk) 22:46, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

2016 discussion

The banner was recently changed from File:Syracuse University - Hall of Languages After Dark - banner.jpg to File:Syracuse skyline (cropped).jpg without discussion. I'm not sure it's an improvement, but I have a slight bias against generic skyline shots in banners. What do others think? Powers ^(talk) 21:03, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

I think it's a good idea in general to think outside the skyline box when creating pagebanners, but the image quality problems with the Hall of Languages image outweigh the anti-skyline argument IMO. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 21:14, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

I can understand that, but I feel the new image isn't actually an improvement from a quality standpoint. Powers ^(talk) 00:31, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

"Learn" section

Below is the entire "Learn" section, moved here for the sake of discussion. I'm inclined to delete it, as all it consists of is a series of names with contact info. Undoubtedly, Syracuse University has and deserves one or more listings under "See" and "Do." Do any of the others? And do any of these institutions offer short courses (a few weeks or fewer) for non-matriculated students?

Learn

• Syracuse University (SU), Syracuse University, Syracuse, +1 315 443-1870, .
• SUNY Upstate Medical University, 766 Irving Avenue, Syracuse, +1 315 464-5540

• SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry (ESF), 1 Forestry Dr., +1 315 470-6500, .
• Le Moyne College, 1419 Salt Springs Rd., +1 315 445-4100, .
• Onondaga Community College (OCC), 4941 Onondaga Rd., +1 315 498-2622, .
• Cazenovia College, 22 Sullivan St., Cazenovia, +1-800-654-3210 .

Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:58, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Shopping malls

Both ShoppingTown and Great Northern Mall have experienced a loss of tenants and decline in activity in recent years. I don't think a visitor would find much advantage over Destiny USA due to their distance from Syracuse (especially Great Northern) and lack of unique POI. Are there any opinions on their continued inclusion? —The preceding comment was added by 108.26.30.223 (talk • contribs)

Most of the current "Buy" choices seem a bit arbitrary. Wikivoyage:Listings should either reflect what's unique about a city or destination, or list venues specifically of interest or use to voyagers. What would someone who's not from Syracuse visit when passing through the city? K7L (talk) 15:11, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Destiny USA for sure. The other malls are worth mentioning in passing just for the record. Powers ^(talk) 01:17, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Festivals

I have organized the festival section by month where I could find the information. I think that approach makes the most sense for tourists who would want to see what's going on while they are in town rather than plan a trip around a type of festival. I am seeking input on how to make the information more useful such as the use of tables and how to best display exact dates and locations which may vary from year to year. Otto1894 (talk) 14:15, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

Check out Rochester (New York)#Festivals for my attempt at solving those problems. I don't claim my solutions to be definitive, but they're the best I've got. Powers ^(talk) 22:24, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

The South Side

I think we should really include something about the south side. Neglecting half of the city in this article is just as bad at the city neglecting half of the city in real life. There may not be many tourist destinations on the south side, but it is still part of the city. —The preceding comment was added by 67.249.99.241 (talk • contribs)

Thank you. That's a much more constructive attitude than your previous one.

In between the snarky comments and jokes, there was a lot of valuable information about Syracuse's Southside in your previous edits. I agree that information should be included in the article. Wikivoyage policy says to "avoid negative reviews", but that doesn't mean we have to wear rose-colored glasses and ignore obvious issues such as crime and poverty (in fact, doing so would be an obvious of our prime directive, "the traveller comes first") - only that negative information can't come in the form of a listing.

The one thing that immediately stood out to me about the Syracuse article is that it completely lacks an "Understand" section, which is the place where general information about the city is supposed to go, and where we can talk about its history or how it's broken down into different neighborhoods (see Wikivoyage:Small city article template). My intuition is that the "History" section (which should be a subsection under "Understand") is the place to go into issues like segregation, the ill effects of urban renewal, and other historical context that explains how the Southside got into the condition it's in. I've gotten to know a bit about Syracuse's Southside from following the news about Governor Cuomo's proposal to raze the elevated portion of Interstate 81 that runs through the neighborhood. I don't know how much you know about Syracuse history, ergo how much detail you'd be prepared to go into if you were to write this for yourself, but I live just a couple hours down the Thruway in Buffalo, and I had to navigate these same types of issues when writing about the East Side, which in terms of the broad strokes of its history seems like the analogue to Syracuse's Southside: a cluster of white working-class quote-unquote "ethnic" immigrant enclaves that turned increasingly African-American in the early 20th century, devastated in the mid-20th century by redlining/blockbusting, then urban renewal, then outright disinvestment and abandonment, and - this is important too - nowadays in the very beginning stages of enjoying some government-aided reinvestment of a type that specifically seeks to right the wrongs of earlier urban renewal initiatives (the I-81 thing in Syracuse; the Medical Campus and the Northland Workforce Training Center in Buffalo). I would say don't be afraid to be frank, but don't wallow in the doom and gloom either. Both Buffalo's East Side and Syracuse's Southside have rich histories that deserve to be recognized and which in many ways are still palpable amidst the ruins. If you like, you can use Buffalo/East Side#History as a guide. I went into a lot of detail there, but you don't have to go into quite so much if you don't want to.

Also: the Southside may not be at the top of the list of things for visitors to Syracuse to see, but don't completely discount the idea that there might be some worthwhile visitor attractions there to list. Again, what I would be thinking in terms of are any historical landmarks that may remain: for instance, I wrote an entire Star-level article on the Historic Churches of Buffalo's East Side. Again, you don't necessarily have to go into as much detail as I did, but it's useful as an example of how you might approach the issue. (To get you started, I'm noticing more than a few Southside addresses on Wikipedia's list of National Register of Historic Places listings in Syracuse, New York.) Don't be afraid to think outside the box, and remember that among the best ways to advocate for the Southside are to educate readers about the richness of its history and to really cheerlead the efforts being made to right the wrongs of the past. This includes big top-down government projects like the I-81 removal but, more importantly, also includes any grassroots/stakeholder-led neighborhood improvement initiatives that may exist.

-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 22:44, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Andre, I'm sorry if this causes you an edit conflict, but I blocked this IP for edit warring and continuing to vandalise.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:53, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Fine, but if that guy calls anyone else a jerk, that block is going right back on.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:56, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) ThunderingTyphoons! - The substance of this user's comments re: segregation and disinvestment on Syracuse's Southside were IMO a little too on the nose to be dismissable as mere "vandalism". I unblocked him because I'd like to hear what he has to say on this thread. It seems that he's knowledgeable about these issues and we might get some valuable content out of him if he can keep his combative attitude and snarky tone in check. Of course, the reasoning behind your userblock was sound and, if my hunch is wrong, the block should be reinstituted without delay. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 22:59, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

The "Get Out" section was obviously too extreme, but I've restored the useful "Eat" and "Drink" updates. I agree with AndreCarrotflower that there was valuable information in between the jokes, and I hope we can find a way to cover the south side in an informative and respectful way. —Granger (talk · contribs) 04:46, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

I agree, too. No disrespect intended; it's just that edits suggesting that you probably got to Syracuse unintentionally and should get out made it seem like a joke. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:39, 13 May 2020 (UTC)