Talk:Italy

Archived discussions Talk:Italy/Archive 2004-2012 Talk:Italy/Archive 2013-2022

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Love of argument?

Should we mention that many Italians love the art of the discuzzione (argument)? This makes them on the whole different from some nationalities. Of course this is a generalization, but I found that Italians are more argumentative than New Yorkers, and probably even more good-natured about it. Recreational arguments with friends are common and can be quite vociferous while remaining entirely friendly. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:58, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Go for it. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:03, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

I appreciate your vote of confidence, but I think I'd like to wait for more reactions before plunging forward on this. I'm only one person, and I don't want to presume my reaction is a general truth if it might not be. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:28, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Italy off the beaten track

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2022/apr/09/hidden-italy-where-to-stay-and-what-to-do-off-the-beaten-track —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 12:56, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Panorama of Trevi fountain 2015.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 02:11, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

The unification, the Pope and Mussolini

In Italy#From independent city states to unification we say (latter half of the last paragraph):

"In 1866, King Victor Emmanuel II annexed Venice. In 1870, shortly after France abandoned it (because they were preoccupied in a war against Prussia that would lead to German unification by 1871), Italy's capital was moved to Rome. The Pope lost much of his influence, with his political authority now being confined to the Vatican City, itself a result of a political compromise between the Pope and Benito Mussolini in the 1920s."

This is unnecessarily convoluted, but one thing seems to be really confused: if the Vatican City was a result of a 1920s compromise, how could the Pope's authority get confined to there in 1870 (or shortly after)?

There are also other confusing passages, such as the March on Rome in 1922 leading to an alliance between the King and Mussolini (in the next section; was the King forced to? did he approve of the coup?).

–LPfi (talk) 09:47, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

I agree. The history section is very long, and could be trimmed back as the confusing parts are removed. Ground Zero (talk) 10:11, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

+1. Wikivoyage is not an encyclopedia, encyclopaedia or an encyclopædia. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 10:18, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

If I'm not forgetting some important history, the status of the Vatican can be explained very simply. Italy gave up much of what's now the French Riviera in exchange for French withdrawal from and recognition of Italian control over Rome, not including the pope's quarters, which were formally recognized as the independent Vatican City by Mussolini. And I do think some brief explanation of the Vatican's status like the foregoing should probably be included, as it's the type of thing a lot of travelers would be confused about. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:04, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Sovereign Military Order of Malta

I find the text about it in "Regions" confusing. Per w:Sovereign Military Order of Malta, its territories in Rome are limited to its two headquarters: "Its two headquarters buildings in Rome enjoy extraterritoriality, similar to embassies, and it maintains embassies in other countries. The Agenzia Nazionale Stampa Associata news agency has called it "the smallest sovereign state in the world". The three principal officers are counted as citizens." This appears to me to be a bit of encyclopedic trivia that won't be of interest to like 99.99% of travelers, so can we delete it? Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:27, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

I decided to plunge forward and delete the coverage. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:15, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Does any entity actually recognize it as a country? If so, I guess it can be a really niche technicality (that interests border enthusiasts like me and probably 99% of WonderWhy + RealLifeLore viewers, but maybe not Wikivoyage readers), but if it is not, then I agree with deleting it. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 07:21, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

From the Wikipedia article I linked above: "The Order maintains diplomatic relations with 113 states,[10] enters into treaties, and issues its own passports, coins and postage stamps." And from w:List of diplomatic missions of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta:

"The Sovereign Military Order of Malta is a sovereign entity of international law that does not have its own territory. It is a permanent non-state observer to the United Nations. It maintains diplomatic relations with over 100 countries.[1] Some of these are hosts of Order of Malta Embassies."Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:35, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, if it doesn't hold territory, then it's not a sovereign state. I agree with your removal. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 07:49, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Fiera di Milano

We say:

"Design and furniture is something Italy is proudly and justifiably famous for. Excellent quality furniture stores can be found all over, but the best deals are in Milan. Milan contains among the top design rooms and emporia in the world. For the newest design inventions, attend the Fiera di Milano in Rho, where the latest appliances are exhibited. […]"

w:Fiera Milano#Fiera Milano Rho says that's a fairground complex mainly used for industrial trade shows. Is that where we want to direct our readers? Rho doesn't tell anything about it. Could somebody who knows the place create a proper listing, with some description on what to expect. Also w:it:Fieramilano may have some useful information.

–LPfi (talk) 13:15, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

The fiera part is misleading. Fiera Milano is literally just the fairgrounds, ie. a venue where different trade fairs take place for a few days to a few weeks each. These can be about design and furniture, but also about pretty much anything else from wine to metal working machinery. Some of them are also open just to professionals in the industry. --Ypsilon (talk) 14:04, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Abruzzo as Central Italy

On Wikivoyage, the Abruzzo region is classified as part of central Italy. While it is true that, geographically, it is at the same latitude as Lazio (and thus could be considered central), conventionally the definition of southern Italy is based on the regions that were part of the former Kingdom of the Two Sicilies, which also included Abruzzo. Furthermore, the Abruzzese dialect derives from the Neapolitan language and its people has an undeniably southern cultural and historical heritage. In fact, the Italian government classifies it as part of southern Italy. For this reason, I believe Abruzzo should also be categorized as part of southern Italy on Wikivoyage. Yeagvr (talk) 23:00, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

If we used only 2 regions - Northern and Southern Italy - Abruzzo would be in the South, for the reasons you state. But then Lazio, and certainly Umbria, Tuscany and the Marche would be part of Northern Italy. I think geography wins out as most useful to travelers. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:26, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I would agree with Yeagvr, because that boundary is not only legal/official, but also traditional and cultural/linguistic, albeit not geographical (see Wikivoyage:Geographical hierarchy#Dividing geographical units). However, the map in "Regions" section is sure to be wrong, cause it oddly splits Molise in two parts and links the one (Province of Isernia) to Central Italy, and the other (Province of Campobasso) to Southern Italy.--3knolls (talk) 06:27, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I'd be interested to know why it:Italia also classifies Abruzzo as part of Central Italy. --SHB2000 (t | c | m) 07:21, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

At any rate, their map is ok.--3knolls (talk) 13:15, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Is there any reason we shouldn't use their map? I guess the name of the country on the map is marginally problematic, but if it's accurate and the one used in this article is not, I think we should make the change. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:40, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

By the way, there's a discussion of Abruzzo at it:Discussione:Italia#Suddivisione in zone e corrispondenza cartine, but there's no real argument about it being treated as part of Central Italy on it.wikivoyage. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:46, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree to use their map.--3knolls (talk) 08:45, 26 November 2024 (UTC)