Talk:Khyber Pakhtunkhwa

Name?

Saqib, who is Pakistani & therefore probably knows the area much better than I, moved this with the summary:

"Saqib moved page Northwest Frontier to Sarhad: better known name of the region)"

Is it actually better known? [w:Sarhad] is a disambiguation page with one entry:

An alternative name for Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Pakistan

Policy is to use the commonest English name and I'm inclined to doubt Sarhad is that because I've never heard it before. On the other hand, I could easily be wrong since I have not visited the area in decades.

Also, the policy does not say commonest for who; it seems possible one name might be common in Pakistan but another elsewhere. An example was the debate over Farsi vs. Persian (Talk:Iran#Farsi_-.3E_Persian, Talk:Persian_phrasebook#Persian_vs._Farsi) where both Iranians & expats in Iran often call the language Farsi but the standard English name is Persian. We ended up with Persian phrasebook in that case. Pashley (talk) 15:21, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Pashley, thanks for brining up the issue. For those who don't know, Sarhad is an Urdu word means either frontier or border. I've travelled extensively to Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and rest of the country and mostly Pakistani people refer the the region (which includes both Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and FATA) as Sarhad whereas "Northwest Frontier" is mostly referred to only the province of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa so I think "Sarhad" is more appropriate here because we've included both Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and FATA as one region. I'll suggest you to make a Google search of the term "Sarhad" and see it yourself whether I'm right or not. Other than that, if you want to go with an English name. I would strongly suggest "North West". Btw, why you taking such things so seriously albeit "Sarhad" is even if not well-known or official but still hold significance. Look at many of the country's sub-regions names we using on WV and most of the names we used to refer a sub-region are not even well-knonw inside that country. --Saqib (talk) 15:38, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

OK, my question is answered. Pashley (talk)

But now that you raised this issue, I can consider to propose to change the name because I guess "Sarhad" is less known to tourists. I'll suggest "North West" for two reasons. Firstly, it describes the location of the region in the country and (and these N.E.S.W. terms are widely used in our region article names already), secondly this term is still used by many to refer this region and people know about it including you. What do you say? But I'm not sure which will be more correct. Either North West/Northwest, Northern-west/Northern West or Northwestern/North Western. --Saqib (talk) 16:55, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Article

In this article the province of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and the Autonous Federal Territory of FATA both are described in one Article whereas both are two different Administrative units (i.e. one is province , the other is Federal Territory). So We Should write two articles one on KPK and second on FATA. —The preceding comment was added by عثمان خان شاہ (talk • contribs)

We used to have seperate guides for KPK and FATA but it was me who later merged both of them into one. This is travel guide, not an encyclopaedia and as of now, one region guide that incorporate both KPK and FATA makes good sense. --Saqib (talk) 01:48, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

I think that's correct, Saqib. We can always split the article if it grows awfully big and that's the consensus... --180.191.104.193 02:35, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Warning box?

I just reverted an apparently well-intentioned edit by User:Libertarianmoderate that had deleted the warning box & some explanation of changes in administration.

However, I'm not at all certain what we should actually have there. Certainly I'd be reluctant to visit this region & might advise others to avoid it, but I haven't been there in decades so I could be wrong. User:Saqib? Others? Pashley (talk) 00:23, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for pinging @Pashley:. The warning box is fine. The security situation has improved in the last couple of years but the area (what was previously known as FATA) is not still open and safe for travellers. --Saqib (talk) 03:34, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Warning box and FATA

The edits I made were for practical reasons. Khyber Paktunkwa is safe for essential travel, while the ex-FATA is extremely dangerous. Because of this, I separated the two, and moved the warning info to the FATA page. -Libertarianmoderate.

Rename this to Khyber Pakhtunkhwa

Can we rename this article to Khyber Pakhtunkhwa?

Northwest Pakistan doesn't seem like a good name. Roovinn (talk) 14:15, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

If I understand correctly this article is about both Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and FATA, and we previously avoided to have just one of the two in the name. The lead says that the region is "now known as Khyber Pakhtunkhwa", but nothing about what this "now" refers to, neither as point in time or as reference to some development. Understand does not touch the issue. Pakistan#Regions says nothing, Pakistan#History cryptically says "by the 1980s the reputation of Pakistan had changed drastically, and today it is a very different place from what it used to be" and Pakistan#Politics mentions political instability without going into details. "FATA" is mentioned in Pakistan#Stay safe with no link nor explanation.

If the FATA was officially merged into Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (which I think was the case), then I think that name could work. However, removing any mention of the FATA (except in Stay safe) was not a good move. FATA now redirects to Pakistan and Federally Administered Tribal Areas redirects here. They should both redirect where we handle the area, and the area should probably be mentioned in the lead of this article, and discussed in Understand here and probably in the Regions and History sections of Pakistan. I also suppose a discussion in Stay safe is warranted.

–LPfi (talk) 16:17, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Have nothing more to mention here apart from what LPfi said. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:27, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

I added an explanation as the first paragraphs of Northwest_Pakistan#Understand. Comment solicited.

Arguably, most of the text at Khyber_Pass#Understand should be added to this article. I have not done that because I am not sure how much of it is accurate for the whole region. Pashley (talk) 06:34, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

I'd say leave it at Northwest Pakistan, of course with a redirect from Khyber Pakhtunkhwa & perhaps KPK as well. Visitors from outside the country are not likely to know the formal name. Pashley (talk) 06:43, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

They might if they follow news reports by foreign media, which are unfortunately usually about acts of terrorism or war. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:18, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

I think we should prefer proper names instead of descriptive ones, when our articles cover named regions, unless there are specific reasons not to. Formerly our article covered more than the named province, hence the name, but not any more if I understand the situation correctly. –LPfi (talk) 10:18, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

I support renaming it to Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. The older name for the region is the North-West Frontier Province. That's still better than Northwest Pakistan which sounds weird to my ears. Gizza ^(roam) 11:13, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

I agree and also support renaming. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:40, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Nine months later, this never got renamed. Based on Gizza's comment, I also support a rename. @Roovinn:, feel free to rename it. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:29, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Shall do so. Roovinn (talk) 12:23, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Turns out we already have a page called Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. Can an admin please delete it? Roovinn (talk) 12:26, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Done. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:29, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

The page history should be saved somewhere visible, so it needs to be undeleted and moved at some point (I assume history merging with Northwest Pakistan would be a great mess), preferably before the move. I don't know how to handle this best, but I will still undelete it for now, as the rename hardly is that urgent and what to do is easier to discuss with the history visible. –LPfi (talk) 13:18, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Moved it to Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (Pakistan) without a redirect. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 13:22, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

And I made it a redirect. Everything should be fine once this page is moved and consequence edits have been made to this page and pages linking to it. –LPfi (talk) 13:29, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. Done and renamed. Roovinn (talk) 14:31, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Done cleaning up the breadcrumbs and the categorisation. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 13:55, 25 April 2022 (UTC)