Talk:Mexican-American history

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This article contains content imported from the English Wikipedia article on History of Mexican Americans. View the page revision history for a list of the authors.
This article contains content imported from the English Wikipedia article on East Los Angeles, California. View the page revision history for a list of the authors.
This article contains content imported from the English Wikipedia article on Mission District, San Francisco. View the page revision history for a list of the authors.
This article contains content imported from the English Wikipedia article on Fruitvale, Oakland, California. View the page revision history for a list of the authors.
This article contains content imported from the English Wikipedia article on Pilsen Historic District. View the page revision history for a list of the authors.

Hyphenation?[edit]

I've always seen "Mexican-American" and analogous ethnic terms (Italian-American, German-American, etc.) hyphenated. If we don't, why not? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:40, 5 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No travel info here[edit]

We have a similar issue with this article as what @Ground Zero: brought up in Talk:American colonialism#Focusing on travel-related aspects of the history. Okay, so fair enough, this is in a better shape than American colonialism, but instead of it listing countries, all it lists is cities and places, but it never explains what a traveller can do in those cities. Here's just one of them:

East L.A. is located immediately east of the Boyle Heights district of Los Angeles, south of the El Sereno district of Los Angeles, north of the city of Commerce, and west of the cities of Monterey Park and Montebello. It is 85% Mexican and Mexican American.

That says that 85% of the population here is Mexican American, but it says nothing for travellers. I'd imagine there may be places in El Paso or anywhere near the Mexican border where a traveller can learn about these places, but I'm not certain about that (and I don't think I saw any places when I was there). Until there's more info on where a traveller can learn about Mexican-American history, the article remains worthless as of now. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:01, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • I agree. This is a history article, not a travel article listing cities doesn't give travellers enough to plan an itinerary on this topic. Ground Zero (talk) 11:16, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • The text could be inserted into the chronological US history articles. /Yvwv (talk) 11:18, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • Part of me wants to nominate this history article for deletion as being out of scope of our travel guide, but the other part of me says that Wikivoyage should have a travel article on this topic. In the coming week I will look up some relevant places to visit, and take a machete to the unsorurced history. Ground Zero (talk) 23:47, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        I'm getting the same sentiments as well. But it's a similar reason why I haven't started a Vietnamese-Australian history article, because I fear I'll write too much on the history section, and not enough on the travel stuff. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:14, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        I'm sure it is an interesting history, but are there many sites that travellers could visit? Museums, monuments, etc.? Ground Zero (talk) 05:27, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        There certainly is, but not a lot. I might draft it in my userspace to see how it goes SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:31, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Mexican-American history[edit]

Swept in from the pub

This article lists only two sites that readers can visit (a museum in Chicago, and an art gallery in Austin) to learn about Mexican American history and culture. Does anyone know of any other places? Surely there must be more. Ground Zero (talk) 12:34, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If this ever happens, there's one more. Doing a quick google search, there's also apparently the w:Mexican Museum (San Francisco), but apart from that, not that I know of any. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:37, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Just realised that there was already a listing for San Fran, but... didn't have anything about the museum. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:40, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
What is the scope in terms of dates and powers – just Mexico 1821–1848, or the earlier Spanish period as well? For example, should it include the Spanish El Camino Real stuff, or not? Nurg (talk) 09:54, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I was assuming it's just anything Mexican related in the US, but I'm not too sure to be frank. The original article creator's last edit was the day they created this article, and this looks like another case of something left to Someone else and so I doubt they'll be responding anytime soon. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:57, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Depending upon your definition (does "American people of Mexican descent" include the descendants of the Spaniards who moved to Mexico when ?), then there could be an enormous number of sites, including everything that happened in US states that were previously under the control of Spain and/or Mexico before 1848 (all California, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, and Utah, plus parts of Oklahoma, Colorado, Wyoming, and Kansas) or in between Mexican independence from Spain (somewhere between 1810 and 1836, depending upon which event you believe is the decisive one) and Mexico losing those territories to the US in 1848. As Nurg says, this could include all of El Camino Real, and also about half the historic state parks in California, and the equivalent locations in the other states.
If this is meant to be about modern Mexican–Americans, then you'd leave out most of that but want to include things like the César E. Chávez National Monument in California. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:19, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
These are really good points. If we aim to include the entire Latin-American history of what's now the United States, we can include all kinds of Spanish monuments, which would also include the colonial buildings in Santa Fe and St. Augustine. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:33, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I think that my point was that the article didn't include any sites to visit at this point. SHB2000 and I have added some. If there are loads and loads of sites that could be included, then it would be better to focus on the ones that would be most useful for someone wanting to learn about Mexican-American history. I don't think that a catalogue of every possible site would make for as good a travel article as a curated list. Ground Zero (talk) 21:41, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I may have exaggerated, but the article about El Camino Real can certainly be linked to with a comment, and listing the important colonial buildings in former Spanish colonies in what's now the U.S. is not going to produce an uninteresting, exhaustive list, I don't think. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:57, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This is outside of my knowledge set, which is why I posted here asking for help. I hope that editors with more knowledge of this issue will jump in to improve this article. Ground Zero (talk) 22:25, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Right, but we need to decide whether we are covering the Spanish colonial period or not? (And actually, St. Augustine was never Mexican, so it should be excluded, anyway.) Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:02, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There is a bona fide ambition to make Wikivoyage more inclusive, through non-Western and minority point of views, but creating separate articles is not always the most helpful solution. Another option is to add material to existing destination and history articles. Pages such as the Old West could use more description of the Mexican American history of destinations in the Southwest and the Mexican-American war and their subsequent annexation to the United States. /Yvwv (talk) 01:24, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Is the present article title the best, or would something like Hispanic-American history be a better title and focus? It's not particularly my subject area so feel free to dismiss this idea. Nurg (talk) 05:05, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That's a much broader and more diffuse topic that would also embrace Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Cubans, Nicaraguans, Guatemalans, Venezuelans, Colombians, Salvadorans... Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:33, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The effort for inclusion has taken some detours, as mentioned on Talk:African-American history, as the deficiencies are in our existing destination articles and travel topics. Charlottesville is a lengthy article which has yet to mention the controversies over the Robert E. Lee monument. The same article's description of Monticello barely mentions that Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner, without addressing the obvious dilemma. /Yvwv (talk) 04:34, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It's very important to remedy these things! Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:37, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
How is this? Still nothing about the Lee monument and the "Unite the Right" riot that ended up in a murder and assaults. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:48, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Also these edits to articles about D.C. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:04, 18 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

In response to the concern about "creating separate articles", I think there is an important point that is being missed. A topic article like this one should not have details about a site, museum, or gallery. It should only point the reader to the destination article that does have those details. That means that the full listing should be in the city or town article. For the points of interest I added to this article, I made sure that the detailed listings are in the city articles -- there is no segregation going on here. This is a red herring. Ground Zero (talk) 13:46, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]